Revelation Chapter 18 seems to match the description of Jesus' second coming in Matthew 24:27-31 and the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. What do you think?
View attachment Rev 18-19 Rapture.png
View attachment Rev 18-19 Rapture.png
Does Jesus' Second Coming begin in Revelation Chapter 18?
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Precious friends, With The Word, Rightly Divided we have:
God's Great { Mystery } GRACE Departure! ( Seven years prior to His Prophesied Second Coming! )
Amen.
God's Great { Mystery } GRACE Departure! ( Seven years prior to His Prophesied Second Coming! )
Amen.
In revelation you see Jesus ascention into heaven here
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
Revelation 12:5 KJV
you then see a war break out on earth between Satan and chrirtians and then after that you see Jesus returning note the language the same “man child “ ( son of man ) who’s to rule all nations with a rod of iron who was taken up into heaven now the heavens are torn open and the ruler is returning with heaven in tow
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire,
and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.”
Revelation 19:11-16 KJV
its important to know revelation isn’t a single long sequential vision. Instead there are several shorter visions that aren’t making a sequential timeline but they overlap and add understsnding to each other based upon what the bible has said priorly in prophecy
what I mean is you see this very early on and appears as if it’s the day of judgement
“And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.( seems like the end of the world but it’s only chapter 6 ) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from
the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
Revelation 6:12-17
notice later on we see this day actually coming to pass
“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
Revelation 20:11-14 KJV
The 7 seals are pronouncing what’s been declared by God in heaven this is a vision from heaven of things being determined by the lord and only Christ was worthy to fulfill it
then you have the seven trumpets these are those decisions made by God and only known by him before jesus unsealed them ….being announced to the people .
And finally the pouring out of the 7 vials are when those things are being fulfilled on earth . those things the seals of the book that had never been read revealed and the trumpets then announced to the earth now they are being poured out and fulfilled
the point is it’s not a linear single vision wheras we follow it to establish timelines but rather its several visions layered and weave together to reveal the apocalyptic mysteries of the Bible
Jesus's Second Coming ----there is no Rapture mentioned here ----
Revelation 19:11-19
Amplified Bible
The Coming of Christ the Conqueror
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who was riding it is called Faithful and True (trustworthy, loyal, incorruptible, steady), and in righteousness He judges and wages war [on the rebellious nations]. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many royal crowns; and He has a name inscribed [on Him] which no one knows or understands except Himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in [a]blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, [dazzling] white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword (His word) with which He may strike down the nations, and He will [b]rule them with a rod of iron; and He will tread the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty [in judgment of the rebellious world]. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name inscribed, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
Doom of the Beast and False Prophet
17 Then I saw a single angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he shouted to all the birds that fly in midheaven, saying, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may feast on the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of powerful and mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all humanity, both free men and slaves, both small and great [in a complete conquest of evil].”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings and political leaders of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against Him who is mounted on the [white] horse and against His army.
Revelation 19:11-19
Amplified Bible
The Coming of Christ the Conqueror
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who was riding it is called Faithful and True (trustworthy, loyal, incorruptible, steady), and in righteousness He judges and wages war [on the rebellious nations]. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many royal crowns; and He has a name inscribed [on Him] which no one knows or understands except Himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in [a]blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, [dazzling] white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword (His word) with which He may strike down the nations, and He will [b]rule them with a rod of iron; and He will tread the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty [in judgment of the rebellious world]. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name inscribed, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
Doom of the Beast and False Prophet
17 Then I saw a single angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he shouted to all the birds that fly in midheaven, saying, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may feast on the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of powerful and mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all humanity, both free men and slaves, both small and great [in a complete conquest of evil].”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings and political leaders of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against Him who is mounted on the [white] horse and against His army.
So will Jesus' twelve apostles (minus Judas) be on earth with Israel or be in heaven with the church?
The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the earth (Rev. 21:2). Our hope is in the new earth (2 Peter 3:13).
Just as the New Jerusalem has the names of the apostles and the twelve tribes of Israel, I believe that the church and the remnant of Israel will be together.
I agree that there are several visions woven together. I don't that prevents us from establishing a timeline. e.g. the fifth trumpet precedes the sixth trumpet.
If you view the attachment, I think Christ's descent to earth begins in Revelation 18:1, not starting in Rev. 19:11 as you quoted. I am suggesting that the sudden appearance of the multitude in Rev. 19:1 is evidence that the rapture has just taken place. See parallel passage in Rev. 7:9-17, and especially Rev. 7:14 where the great multitude has just come out of the great tribulation.
Well, a person who reads the entire Bible will readily understand that there are three main ways God dispenses
His requirement for salvation and therefore relates to humanity:
1. From creation until a person exercises faith to believe in the God of moral law as Abraham did. (Rom. 1:20, 2:6-29)
2. From the divine revelation of moral law via Moses until the incarnation of GW and Gospel of Christ. (John 1:1-14, Eph. 3:2-6)
3. From the death of Christ's apostles until He comes again at the Judgment. (Phil. 1:3-6, Col. 1:15-27, Matt. 16:16-18, Heb. 7:18-10:1)
I think the rapture will happen on the day of the second coming of Jesus as shown in Matthew 24..
I believe The day of the return of Jesus is described in the book of Revelation chapter 19 verse 11...
Precious friend, @greenonions, appreciate your kind and humble discussion and your great
question - this could confuse some, as some wish the "minus Judas" to be Paul 'instead of
Matthias (Acts 1:26 AV)', so, deferring this for a moment, let us consider this first, shall we?:
"In the beginning God Created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1 AV)
Now, if our "hope is [ only? ] in the new earth", then what should we consider would be "God's Purpose" For The New Heaven ( our hope? ), if any?
We believe this is answered in His Word, Rightly Divided, but just asking for your valuable input.
Thanks.
I see his first coming was in the birth through Mary
the Second was in his resurrection, still preached to this day, yet the flesh nature still in the way, that is not redeemed yet.
He was here on earth in flesh and blood and perfectly fulfilled the Law. Died willingly to give new life in his resurrected life from Father to us the people that choose to stand in belief to this does work for them to be worked out through them
In Revelations 1, it is told He, Jesus has the keys to Heaven and Hell now. he won (One) for us to be new in Daddy's Spirit and truth presently here and forever in Heaven with them as Won One with them, for us to be in by his done work, not anyone else's work ever, to me at least
The new, began at the resurrection of Jesus once for us all to choose to believe, trust and be new in love to all
Authorized (King James) Version
Col. 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
So will we, each continue to stand in belief, he is risen where I see new life is given from Daddy, Father, PaPa! this is we can now rest medicine over having to take anything else to get rid of stress that do easily besets us all, has me, and I see to not focus on troubles so deeply it gets the best of me anymore as has in past
Heis risen, You and all are Forgiven (reconciled) so be reconciled (2 Cor 5:17-20)
A little bit off your post, yet is a part for new life given by Father in risen Son for all
the Second was in his resurrection, still preached to this day, yet the flesh nature still in the way, that is not redeemed yet.
He was here on earth in flesh and blood and perfectly fulfilled the Law. Died willingly to give new life in his resurrected life from Father to us the people that choose to stand in belief to this does work for them to be worked out through them
In Revelations 1, it is told He, Jesus has the keys to Heaven and Hell now. he won (One) for us to be new in Daddy's Spirit and truth presently here and forever in Heaven with them as Won One with them, for us to be in by his done work, not anyone else's work ever, to me at least
The new, began at the resurrection of Jesus once for us all to choose to believe, trust and be new in love to all
Authorized (King James) Version
Col. 1:21-23
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
So will we, each continue to stand in belief, he is risen where I see new life is given from Daddy, Father, PaPa! this is we can now rest medicine over having to take anything else to get rid of stress that do easily besets us all, has me, and I see to not focus on troubles so deeply it gets the best of me anymore as has in past
Heis risen, You and all are Forgiven (reconciled) so be reconciled (2 Cor 5:17-20)
A little bit off your post, yet is a part for new life given by Father in risen Son for all
To me, it is Jesus the risen One (Won) and nothing else being made new in God Father through the done work in Daddy's Spirit and Truth
Correct, noon will know, except God Father in risen Son tells them so. The amazing grace mysteries, some revealed not all yet as God leads not me, thanks Graceambassador
In Seminary I was taught you use Mattthew 24 as the template, the foundation and use Revelation, 2 Thessalonians 2, and other End Times passages to detail Matthew 24.
Revelation starts over, it tells events and then goes back over them in detail, because Prophecy often is Past, Present, and Future.
For instance in Matthew 24, the Disciples ask Jesus two distinct questions. One is when will the First Temple be destroyed and when will Jesus return, Christ answers both back to back.
Revelation starts over, it tells events and then goes back over them in detail, because Prophecy often is Past, Present, and Future.
For instance in Matthew 24, the Disciples ask Jesus two distinct questions. One is when will the First Temple be destroyed and when will Jesus return, Christ answers both back to back.
Yes, that is what the disciples did when they had instead been instructed by Jesus to wait.
If you view the attachment, I think Christ's descent to earth begins in Revelation 18:1, not starting in Rev. 19:11 as you quoted. I am suggesting that the sudden appearance of the multitude in Rev. 19:1 is evidence that the rapture has just taken place. See parallel passage in Rev. 7:9-17, and especially Rev. 7:14 where the great multitude has just come out of the great tribulation.
I think you need to read this ----and know your scripture a little better maybe -----
The rapture of the Church happened before the start of the tribulation ----Jesus comes with all His Saints to defeat Satan ----that is His second coming -----
AI Overview
Learn more
Revelation 18 primarily describes the fall of Babylon, a symbolic representation of worldly power and corruption, rather than the second coming of Jesus Christ.
While Revelation 18 does depict an angel with great authority descending from heaven, this is distinct from the second coming of Christ, which is more explicitly described in Revelation 19.
I think you need to read this ----and know your scripture a little better maybe -----
The rapture of the Church happened before the start of the tribulation ----Jesus comes with all His Saints to defeat Satan ----that is His second coming -----
AI Overview
Learn more
Revelation 18 primarily describes the fall of Babylon, a symbolic representation of worldly power and corruption, rather than the second coming of Jesus Christ.
While Revelation 18 does depict an angel with great authority descending from heaven, this is distinct from the second coming of Christ, which is more explicitly described in Revelation 19.
Hi GRACE_ambassador. I apologize as it seems like I had selective reading when looking at 2 Peter 3:13. It mentions both the new heavens and the new earth as our hope. "But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells." (2 Peter 3:13 NIV)
In Genesis 1:28, God tells man to fill the earth and subdue it, and to rule over the animals. In Genesis 1:14-18, God put the sun, moon, and the stars in the heavens for signs and seasons and for days and years. I think the purposes of the new heavens and the new earth could be similar.
Jesus and His followers who embody the beatitudes should inherit both the kingdom of God (Matthew 5:3, 10) and the earth (Matthew 5:5).
Do you think the New Jerusalem will be on the new earth?
"For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him."
It's from 1 Thessalonians 4:14 (NIV). The way that the dead in Christ come with Jesus is when they are resurrected at the same time that the living saints are raptured. (1 Thess. 4:14-17). Yes Jesus will come with all His saints to defeat Satan. But this is the same event, in my opinion.
You said that the rapture happens before the tribulation. I agree that a rapture in Revelation 18-19 is incompatible with a pre-tribulation rapture.
It seems like the majority view (according to AI) is that the angel with great authority in Revelation 18:1 is not Jesus. I agree that Rev. 18:1 does not explicitly say that this angel is Jesus, but I still think it is a possibility. Jesus is the light of the world that shines in the darkness, after all (John 1:5; 8:12; Revelation 18:1). "The glory of God illuminated it [the New Jerusalem] and the Lamb is its light" (Rev. 21:23 NKJV).
What is the same event the rapture of the Dead in Christ and then the Living in Christ and the 2nd coming --is that what you believe is the same event ----if so your wrong ------
these are 2 separate events ----you need to research this very carefully -----
Precious friend, no problem at all - I believe the New Heavenly Jerusalem
will come down to the New earth:
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of
heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2 AV)
Have often wondered about why it is a 12,000-furlong [ 1500-miles ] cube, as I have studied Israel's "hope for the earth" [ 1 or 2 miles high? ] and The Body Of Christ's "hope
of heaven" which could be in the Upper Remainder miles, eh?
Concerning "the Lamb's wife" please review/enjoy:
Is The Body The Bride Of Christ?
Concerning the "timing" of the rapture, please prayerfully and carefully
review (Newly 'revised'):
God's Pre - TOJT Great Grace Departure & The Second Coming?
Stay encouraged and edified and please keep the great learning questions coming...