Does a Mountain of Muscle Maketh a Man?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
17,297
6,159
113
#1
Hey Everyone,

I've actually had this thread title and idea written down for quite a while, but some recent reading made it seem like this might be a good time to post it.

I've been a part of a few financial Discord chats for about 2 years now. Some gravitate towards younger communities, some towards slightly older, but they all have the same things in common -- they're smart, disciplined, hard-working, and very successful or on the road to success. But as to be expected, these chats are 99% (and then some) men.

So yes, the financial chatter is mixed with a lot of bro talk and even occasional polls about how women have done men wrong and are all sleeping around behind their backs. Many subscribe to the Men Going Their Own Way philosophy and talk about being or becoming Passport Bros (guys who go to cheaper countries to seek out beautiful young bedmates.) But this is to be expected, and I'm not there to interrupt their community. I mostly listen, and the rare times I do speak up, it's often to praise the guys who dare to say something about how much they love their wives.

Many of these men, especially the younger ones, talk about working out and trying to obtain what they believe are the manliest of male bodies that will attract all the chicks.

Like any group of people, these chats have leaders and extremists, along with (the guys I listen to and long to try to help,) the followers who haven't quite gotten there yet but are looking for a place to fit in.

Many members post their workout routines, the amounts of the weights they've conquered during their last lift, and the carnivorous rabbit diets (a steak and a side of lettuce) they're using to "cut" and define their bodies, along with protein powders and "supplements" (basically legal steroids.)

I have a profound interest in trying to encourage people to live in a healthy manner and find the healthy body dimensions that work for them. And I feel truly disturbed to read about the increasing number of men who are starving, punishing and destroying their own bodies in this quest for imagined perfection:

1744743867693.jpeg

It makes me immensely sad.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised because I grew up in the times of 80's and 90's action stars, while today's male stars at least have some semblance of still looking human:

1744743985581.jpeg


But many of these young guys are convinced they can starve, injure, and "discipline" themselves into an 80's action hero.

* Do you know, or have you known any men who are harming themselves while trying to achieve a "perfection" no one else can achieve?

* Do you have a son or younger male relative, co-worker, church member who strives to look like this through unhealthy means?

* Have you ever known a man with an eating disorder?

* How do we approach these topics with sensitivity, and come across as wanting to help, rather than criticize?

* How can we encourage men into being healthy, and, just like women, that they don't have to reach unattainable, dangerous goals to try to be able to love and find someone who loves them?

As I said, I know very well that the chats I sit in on are secular -- but not everyone there is -- and I silently pray as I read along that maybe there is someone I can encourage and help. If we expect men to be leaders, we all know that both genders need to find a way to preserve and build up what God made them to be.

I would greatly appreciate any stories, experience, or advice others have to share! 💗Thank you.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
28,779
10,316
113
#2
I remember this one teenage guy at my job. His supper was a baked sweet potato with nothing on it and a can of tuna with nothing in it, mixed together. I commented that it seemed a bit of an unappetizing combination. He said, yeah I wish I had already eaten it so I didn't have to eat it now.

But that's as extreme as my stories go. I live in Southwest Tennessee where there is not much pressure for men to be totally ripped and stuff, dude, yo.
 

ATSTD

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2025
1,035
380
83
37
Long Beach, California
www.lnk.bio
#5
Hey Everyone,

I've actually had this thread title and idea written down for quite a while, but some recent reading made it seem like this might be a good time to post it.

I've been a part of a few financial Discord chats for about 2 years now. Some gravitate towards younger communities, some towards slightly older, but they all have the same things in common -- they're smart, disciplined, hard-working, and very successful or on the road to success. But as to be expected, these chats are 99% (and then some) men.

So yes, the financial chatter is mixed with a lot of bro talk and even occasional polls about how women have done men wrong and are all sleeping around behind their backs. Many subscribe to the Men Going Their Own Way philosophy and talk about being or becoming Passport Bros (guys who go to cheaper countries to seek out beautiful young bedmates.) But this is to be expected, and I'm not there to interrupt their community. I mostly listen, and the rare times I do speak up, it's often to praise the guys who dare to say something about how much they love their wives.

Many of these men, especially the younger ones, talk about working out and trying to obtain what they believe are the manliest of male bodies that will attract all the chicks.

Like any group of people, these chats have leaders and extremists, along with (the guys I listen to and long to try to help,) the followers who haven't quite gotten there yet but are looking for a place to fit in.

Many members post their workout routines, the amounts of the weights they've conquered during their last lift, and the carnivorous rabbit diets (a steak and a side of lettuce) they're using to "cut" and define their bodies, along with protein powders and "supplements" (basically legal steroids.)

I have a profound interest in trying to encourage people to live in a healthy manner and find the healthy body dimensions that work for them. And I feel truly disturbed to read about the increasing number of men who are starving, punishing and destroying their own bodies in this quest for imagined perfection:

View attachment 275397

It makes me immensely sad.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised because I grew up in the times of 80's and 90's action stars, while today's male stars at least have some semblance of still looking human:

View attachment 275398


But many of these young guys are convinced they can starve, injure, and "discipline" themselves into an 80's action hero.

* Do you know, or have you known any men who are harming themselves while trying to achieve a "perfection" no one else can achieve?

* Do you have a son or younger male relative, co-worker, church member who strives to look like this through unhealthy means?

* Have you ever known a man with an eating disorder?

* How do we approach these topics with sensitivity, and come across as wanting to help, rather than criticize?

* How can we encourage men into being healthy, and, just like women, that they don't have to reach unattainable, dangerous goals to try to be able to love and find someone who loves them?

As I said, I know very well that the chats I sit in on are secular -- but not everyone there is -- and I silently pray as I read along that maybe there is someone I can encourage and help. If we expect men to be leaders, we all know that both genders need to find a way to preserve and build up what God made them to be.

I would greatly appreciate any stories, experience, or advice others have to share! 💗Thank you.
I knew a guy that ate potatoes and chicken breasts. That is all he ate. He looked like a chicken breast on steroids. A very sweet and kind guy though.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
17,297
6,159
113
#6
I remember this one teenage guy at my job. His supper was a baked sweet potato with nothing on it and a can of tuna with nothing in it, mixed together. I commented that it seemed a bit of an unappetizing combination. He said, yeah I wish I had already eaten it so I didn't have to eat it now.

But that's as extreme as my stories go. I live in Southwest Tennessee where there is not much pressure for men to be totally ripped and stuff, dude, yo.
I knew a guy that ate potatoes and chicken breasts. That is all he ate. He looked like a chicken breast on steroids. A very sweet and kind guy though.
I appreciate you guys sharing this.

As a woman, dieting and weight control is like talking about the weather -- it's just an everyday subject almost all women talk about.

But it's rarely, if ever discussed among men, and if it is, it always seems to be within a context of some kind of weight lifting/body building regimen. Eating disorders in men is rarely talked about, but it's happening. Not all the things described in these posts are disordered eating, but it's definitely extreme. If any of these men were my brother, family member, significant other, close friend, etc., I would be keeping a close eye on them and asking how they were really doing.

I can remember at least 3 guys I knew who lost 30-40 pounds each in the span of only a couple months -- and I never even thought they were all that heavy. They got tired of being "the fat guy" -- and pretty much just stopped eating. One developed a diet of pretty much all cigarettes and diet Coke; another young guy, just a teenager, was also always smoking on breaks instead of eating.

And the third guy, well, he did it under the guise of "fasting," saying he would sit down to eat, but that "God told him he needed to fast that day." He had gone through a painful divorce, and he was desperate to "hear from God" any way he could. He had been told that fasting was an effective way to invite the power of God into your life, and he was at a point where he would have done most anything for a breakthrough -- including blatant self-starvation.

This is something I harped on in another thread.

I've heard thousands of sermons in my life -- but never a single one about how the church has to be careful when they push fasting, because they might be planting the seeds or exacerbating an already existing life-threatening condition, all in the name of "getting closer to God."
 

RodB651

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2021
852
559
93
59
#7
How can we encourage men into being healthy, and, just like women, that they don't have to reach unattainable, dangerous goals to try to be able to love and find someone who loves them?
I know of at least three mens groups that push the idea of being the best you can be on both the inside and outside. They push exercise, weights, eating healthy, and so forth. They exhibit some of the MGTOW traits, maybe an MGTOW lite.

Honestly, its hard to find what I would call a Mens group in the Church. I have looked to no avail. That something that would teach Bible and masculinity. I have found some outside of Church but I'm hesitant to join up with that. I want to be the best I can be, but it has to be God centered. I'm all for exercising, diet, hanging out with guys that would make me better, and hopefully help make them better as well. Its just hard to find!
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
17,297
6,159
113
#8
I know of at least three mens groups that push the idea of being the best you can be on both the inside and outside. They push exercise, weights, eating healthy, and so forth. They exhibit some of the MGTOW traits, maybe an MGTOW lite.

Honestly, its hard to find what I would call a Mens group in the Church. I have looked to no avail. That something that would teach Bible and masculinity. I have found some outside of Church but I'm hesitant to join up with that. I want to be the best I can be, but it has to be God centered. I'm all for exercising, diet, hanging out with guys that would make me better, and hopefully help make them better as well. Its just hard to find!
Thank you so much for this honest evaluation.

Man, and I thought a decent Women's Group was hard to find!

Yeah... Most of the man-gatherings I witness are kind of like, "Women are deceitful and can't be trusted, so go out there and make all the money you can, become better-looking than they could ever get, never get tied down by marriage, and conquer all the ones that catch your eye!"

Now I realize I'm hanging out in secular places, but even the ones claiming to be Christian grunt and all clink their virtual beers together like Conan the Barbarian ("What is best in life?" "Winning!")

And I'm certainly not saying their anger and discouragement is without cause. If I do pipe into any of these conversations, it's often to say that I could never even be friends with many of the women they describe (though I know it's one-sided and I haven't heard the women's point of view.)

But I'm pretty sure we would ALL run from entitled Karen's who think they deserve everything just for existing!
 

Suze

Active member
Mar 14, 2025
243
153
43
#9
Hey Everyone,

I've actually had this thread title and idea written down for quite a while, but some recent reading made it seem like this might be a good time to post it.

I've been a part of a few financial Discord chats for about 2 years now. Some gravitate towards younger communities, some towards slightly older, but they all have the same things in common -- they're smart, disciplined, hard-working, and very successful or on the road to success. But as to be expected, these chats are 99% (and then some) men.

So yes, the financial chatter is mixed with a lot of bro talk and even occasional polls about how women have done men wrong and are all sleeping around behind their backs. Many subscribe to the Men Going Their Own Way philosophy and talk about being or becoming Passport Bros (guys who go to cheaper countries to seek out beautiful young bedmates.) But this is to be expected, and I'm not there to interrupt their community. I mostly listen, and the rare times I do speak up, it's often to praise the guys who dare to say something about how much they love their wives.

Many of these men, especially the younger ones, talk about working out and trying to obtain what they believe are the manliest of male bodies that will attract all the chicks.

Like any group of people, these chats have leaders and extremists, along with (the guys I listen to and long to try to help,) the followers who haven't quite gotten there yet but are looking for a place to fit in.

Many members post their workout routines, the amounts of the weights they've conquered during their last lift, and the carnivorous rabbit diets (a steak and a side of lettuce) they're using to "cut" and define their bodies, along with protein powders and "supplements" (basically legal steroids.)

I have a profound interest in trying to encourage people to live in a healthy manner and find the healthy body dimensions that work for them. And I feel truly disturbed to read about the increasing number of men who are starving, punishing and destroying their own bodies in this quest for imagined perfection:

View attachment 275397

It makes me immensely sad.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised because I grew up in the times of 80's and 90's action stars, while today's male stars at least have some semblance of still looking human:

View attachment 275398


But many of these young guys are convinced they can starve, injure, and "discipline" themselves into an 80's action hero.

* Do you know, or have you known any men who are harming themselves while trying to achieve a "perfection" no one else can achieve?

* Do you have a son or younger male relative, co-worker, church member who strives to look like this through unhealthy means?

* Have you ever known a man with an eating disorder?

* How do we approach these topics with sensitivity, and come across as wanting to help, rather than criticize?

* How can we encourage men into being healthy, and, just like women, that they don't have to reach unattainable, dangerous goals to try to be able to love and find someone who loves them?

As I said, I know very well that the chats I sit in on are secular -- but not everyone there is -- and I silently pray as I read along that maybe there is someone I can encourage and help. If we expect men to be leaders, we all know that both genders need to find a way to preserve and build up what God made them to be.

I would greatly appreciate any stories, experience, or advice others have to share! 💗Thank you.
You made me think of Samson 💪 , he looked exactly like everyone else . How do we know this ? Because the Philistines were astonished at his strength and desperate to find out how come he was so strong , so he must have looked just like an ordinary guy otherwise it would have been obvious . Victor Mature , the actor who played him many years ago , was ironically miss cast . He was cast in the role because he has a huge muscly chest , have a look if u can .
 

ATSTD

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2025
1,035
380
83
37
Long Beach, California
www.lnk.bio
#11
I appreciate you guys sharing this.

As a woman, dieting and weight control is like talking about the weather -- it's just an everyday subject almost all women talk about.

But it's rarely, if ever discussed among men, and if it is, it always seems to be within a context of some kind of weight lifting/body building regimen. Eating disorders in men is rarely talked about, but it's happening. Not all the things described in these posts are disordered eating, but it's definitely extreme. If any of these men were my brother, family member, significant other, close friend, etc., I would be keeping a close eye on them and asking how they were really doing.

I can remember at least 3 guys I knew who lost 30-40 pounds each in the span of only a couple months -- and I never even thought they were all that heavy. They got tired of being "the fat guy" -- and pretty much just stopped eating. One developed a diet of pretty much all cigarettes and diet Coke; another young guy, just a teenager, was also always smoking on breaks instead of eating.

And the third guy, well, he did it under the guise of "fasting," saying he would sit down to eat, but that "God told him he needed to fast that day." He had gone through a painful divorce, and he was desperate to "hear from God" any way he could. He had been told that fasting was an effective way to invite the power of God into your life, and he was at a point where he would have done most anything for a breakthrough -- including blatant self-starvation.

This is something I harped on in another thread.

I've heard thousands of sermons in my life -- but never a single one about how the church has to be careful when they push fasting, because they might be planting the seeds or exacerbating an already existing life-threatening condition, all in the name of "getting closer to God."
I think if more people spent time listening to God’s word or voice, through pastors , listening to the Bible on audio and building their faith, actually trusting God and actually believing that Jesus lives inside of them, people would be way more secure.

We live in a world that opposes Jesus and if you try to seek God or resemble Jesus in anyway, you will get opposition, even from believers.

Like, I just had to report hate speech on Facebook just now because someone called me a racist for having an opinion on the whole diversity, inclusion, equity business philosophy that every major business followed during the Biden administration.

I didn’t vote for Trump or Kamala but because I worked at Disney while they enforced that business philosophy, I’m the bad guy.

They literally segregated every race and had a group for only disabled people. If that isn’t segregation. I don’t know what is.

Anyways, now because I’m frustrated now. This is where I turn to God to soothe me, which he always does and heal from this false accusation.
 

RodB651

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2021
852
559
93
59
#13
Yeah... Most of the man-gatherings I witness are kind of like, "Women are deceitful and can't be trusted, so go out there and make all the money you can, become better-looking than they could ever get, never get tied down by marriage, and conquer all the ones that catch your eye!"
I recently bought a book that followed that line you mentioned. I didn't know that was what it was about until about midway through the first chapter. I really wanted some ideas on being a better me. Over 85% of the book was about being the dominant male that has a harem of women to pick from. I'm not interested in that. I suppose any guy could pursue that if he really wanted, but why? What would be the point in it?

Why not be that man that can be counted on to lead or follow? Or that man who keeps his word, does what he needs to do, the one who can be counted on?
Men have forgotten how to really be men I think. We've let culture push us aside.
We let it happen. Its easier to step back and let someone else do it.

Ok, I'll hush. End of rant.. 😀
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
17,297
6,159
113
#14
Does the office talk go like
This?😄
This is about as bad of a macho man as you can get. :ROFL:

Guys, please don't listen to someone like this!!

And, I know I'm a girl, but yeah, I used to bench press -- with just the bar, too. :cool:

(I think I got up to a 10-pound weight on each side? But that was eons ago!) :LOL:
 
Jul 7, 2022
11,464
4,977
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#15
You made me think of Samson 💪 , he looked exactly like everyone else . How do we know this ? Because the Philistines were astonished at his strength and desperate to find out how come he was so strong , so he must have looked just like an ordinary guy otherwise it would have been obvious . Victor Mature , the actor who played him many years ago , was ironically miss cast . He was cast in the role because he has a huge muscly chest , have a look if u can .
That's a interesting view of Samson, kinda like a janitor? 😆
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
17,297
6,159
113
#16
I recently bought a book that followed that line you mentioned. I didn't know that was what it was about until about midway through the first chapter. I really wanted some ideas on being a better me. Over 85% of the book was about being the dominant male that has a harem of women to pick from. I'm not interested in that. I suppose any guy could pursue that if he really wanted, but why? What would be the point in it?

Why not be that man that can be counted on to lead or follow? Or that man who keeps his word, does what he needs to do, the one who can be counted on?
Men have forgotten how to really be men I think. We've let culture push us aside.
We let it happen. Its easier to step back and let someone else do it.

Ok, I'll hush. End of rant.. 😀
I LOVED this scene from a sadly little-known movie called Second Hand Lions, in which a selfish mother leaves her preteen son (played by the boy from The Sixth Sense) with his two uncles.

When a gang of young hoodlums tries to bully them and asks who he thinks he is, Robert Duvall fully puts them in their place.

He tells them he's led many men into battle, fought in wars all over the world, killed many men, earned and lost a dozen fortunes, and loved only one woman (unfortunately, I think this particular clip leaves that part out.)

I get chills every time I see it because THIS is what I wish they'd have done with the male characters we loved so much from our childhood (Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, etc.) What's even more touching is that later in the movie, the boys start treating Mr. Duvall's character as a second dad, asking him for advice and resulting in him patting them on the shoulder and telling them they're "good boys."

It's such a wonderful story arc, and it makes me mad that they don't portray older men like this more often -- as world-weary but learned, wise, and valuable mentors to the next generation, not old geezers who have no use in society.

 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
17,297
6,159
113
#18
Its a rare man who can say that.
The character/actor is old enough to be my grandpa, but when he listed his life accomplishments and said he'd only loved one woman, I was absolutely SWOONING!! :LOL:

And it was so touching when the town bullies (this was set back around the 1950's) came to him for advice. It didn't explain any of the boys' backgrounds, but you could just picture how they probably didn't have good home lives, but were getting the mentorship that they sorely lacked from this wonderful man, no matter how gruff he was. :love:

It's a terrific movie if anyone gets the chance to watch it! (Second Hand Lions)
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,703
4,353
113
#19
Hey Everyone,

I've actually had this thread title and idea written down for quite a while, but some recent reading made it seem like this might be a good time to post it.

I've been a part of a few financial Discord chats for about 2 years now. Some gravitate towards younger communities, some towards slightly older, but they all have the same things in common -- they're smart, disciplined, hard-working, and very successful or on the road to success. But as to be expected, these chats are 99% (and then some) men.

So yes, the financial chatter is mixed with a lot of bro talk and even occasional polls about how women have done men wrong and are all sleeping around behind their backs. Many subscribe to the Men Going Their Own Way philosophy and talk about being or becoming Passport Bros (guys who go to cheaper countries to seek out beautiful young bedmates.) But this is to be expected, and I'm not there to interrupt their community. I mostly listen, and the rare times I do speak up, it's often to praise the guys who dare to say something about how much they love their wives.

Many of these men, especially the younger ones, talk about working out and trying to obtain what they believe are the manliest of male bodies that will attract all the chicks.

Like any group of people, these chats have leaders and extremists, along with (the guys I listen to and long to try to help,) the followers who haven't quite gotten there yet but are looking for a place to fit in.

Many members post their workout routines, the amounts of the weights they've conquered during their last lift, and the carnivorous rabbit diets (a steak and a side of lettuce) they're using to "cut" and define their bodies, along with protein powders and "supplements" (basically legal steroids.)

I have a profound interest in trying to encourage people to live in a healthy manner and find the healthy body dimensions that work for them. And I feel truly disturbed to read about the increasing number of men who are starving, punishing and destroying their own bodies in this quest for imagined perfection:

View attachment 275397

It makes me immensely sad.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised because I grew up in the times of 80's and 90's action stars, while today's male stars at least have some semblance of still looking human:

View attachment 275398


But many of these young guys are convinced they can starve, injure, and "discipline" themselves into an 80's action hero.

* Do you know, or have you known any men who are harming themselves while trying to achieve a "perfection" no one else can achieve?

* Do you have a son or younger male relative, co-worker, church member who strives to look like this through unhealthy means?

* Have you ever known a man with an eating disorder?

* How do we approach these topics with sensitivity, and come across as wanting to help, rather than criticize?

* How can we encourage men into being healthy, and, just like women, that they don't have to reach unattainable, dangerous goals to try to be able to love and find someone who loves them?

As I said, I know very well that the chats I sit in on are secular -- but not everyone there is -- and I silently pray as I read along that maybe there is someone I can encourage and help. If we expect men to be leaders, we all know that both genders need to find a way to preserve and build up what God made them to be.

I would greatly appreciate any stories, experience, or advice others have to share! 💗Thank you.
I don't know about those guys but I can say that for me it took a lot of discipline. I didn't restrict diet like crazy. Bodybuilders in the 80s and 90s still ate lots of carbs. One famous bodybuilder would go to his favorite restaurant after a competition and gorge out on 3 giant bowls of rice. Being in competition shape took a huge toll on them, but once it's over they go back to normal dieting. The discipline it takes to build muscle is something most people don't know about. A lot of young guys now think they just have to cut carbs and workout and take supplements like creatine, but that's why their muscles aren't big and dense like bodybuilders from the past and they don't have the level of vascularity either (big veins). I'm not knocking them. I'm just saying that it takes more discipline than most people realize. Or at least it used to. Doing cardio was big in bodybuilding in the past as well. I wish I could still train like I used to, but due to circumstances beyond my control, I can't step into any gym right now and my fitness has gone down the drain since covid began.
 

Suze

Active member
Mar 14, 2025
243
153
43
#20
I don't know about those guys but I can say that for me it took a lot of discipline. I didn't restrict diet like crazy. Bodybuilders in the 80s and 90s still ate lots of carbs. One famous bodybuilder would go to his favorite restaurant after a competition and gorge out on 3 giant bowls of rice. Being in competition shape took a huge toll on them, but once it's over they go back to normal dieting. The discipline it takes to build muscle is something most people don't know about. A lot of young guys now think they just have to cut carbs and workout and take supplements like creatine, but that's why their muscles aren't big and dense like bodybuilders from the past and they don't have the level of vascularity either (big veins). I'm not knocking them. I'm just saying that it takes more discipline than most people realize. Or at least it used to. Doing cardio was big in bodybuilding in the past as well. I wish I could still train like I used to, but due to circumstances beyond my control, I can't step into any gym right now and my fitness has gone down the drain since covid began.
The world is a different place since 2020 that's for sure .