Does a Christian in the USA have an obligation to surrender weapons to an oppressive government?

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Does a Christian citizen of the USA have an obligation to surrender weapons to a repressive governme

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 17.6%

  • No

    Votes: 13 76.5%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Total voters
    17
UnitedWithChrist

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
#1
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#1
The question is simple: does a Christian in the USA have an obligation to surrender weapons to an oppressive government?

This is not a useless question. The leftist government of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are clearly trying to seize weapons, and to impose restrictions that would allow for further seizures as they please.

My position is no, a Christian does not have an obligation. Americans have a covenant with those governing them. The rules by which they derive their authority are specified in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. One of the Amendments to the Constitution is the right to bear arms. This right was given to the American people to suppress a tyrannical ruler.

Now, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris want to take away particular weapons, using the claim of "public health concerns". Supposedly, these public health concerns have to do with deaths relating to mass shootings by criminals.

Leftists are inconsistent, though. They promote abortion, which terminates the lives of 900,000 unborn children per year, for a total of 65 million deaths since 1973. Additionally, they promote the rights of individuals to engage in homosexuality, which results in about a million deaths per year, too.

So, if they are so concerned with shooting deaths, why aren't they concerned about abortion deaths or deaths caused by promoting homosexuality, which they support?

My position is that the leadership of this country ceases to be the leadership if they try to enact legislation which denies freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to assemble, and gun ownership rights. If they violate the covenant that enables them to be in control, they abdicate their position and are no longer in charge of the nation. I don't care how many leftists vote to seize these American rights.

What about you? What do you think about this? Are these rights a hill to die on? I think so.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#2
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#2
The democratic party has become un-American. Openly Anti-American.

I have talked to many people who used to vote democrat and they no longer do because of these issues. The biggest ones being taking away guns and defunding police and manipulating riots causing Americans harm. The constant manipulative false propaganda from CNN, MSNBC and the rest of the major news media as well. The Covid PLANDEMIC being the case in point. People see through the lies. Not everyone is as dumb as the government and media thinks they are.

I think the democratic party is self-destructing and soon will not exist. I think most Amercians WANT to work for a better life and be RESPONSIBLE for themselves and their families.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#3
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
#3
Maybe an actually Biblically relevant question is whether a Christian is obligated to shoot at governing authorities if they didn't vote for them.

Do we need bullets to preach the gospel? Did the apostles try to overthrow Rome when they were being persecuted even to death or did they praise God all the way to their executions, joyous and thankful that they were counted worthy to suffer for the sake of His name?

Seems to me that Peter was told to put away his sword and Christ healed Malchus. Don't you ever wonder why God saw fit to record that man's name in scripture?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
#4
I ain't gonna win a lot of friends with that comment lol
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#5
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,728
113
#5
This is NOT an "America Discussion" Forum; it is a BIBLE Discussion Forum.

This thread does not belong here.
 
surfer14

surfer14

Banned
#6
Jul 9, 2020
846
492
63
#6
posthuman said:
Do we need bullets to preach the gospel?
Click to expand...
No. But we do need bullets to protect the ones He's entrusted to us.

There's only one reason for the government to disarm its citizens: Because it wants to do something bad to those citizens, and it fears the citizens might shoot back. When good people disarm themselves, bad people are encouraged to do evil Thus by allowing yourself to be disarmed you are leading them into sin.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#7
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#7
posthuman said:
Maybe an actually Biblically relevant question is whether a Christian is obligated to shoot at governing authorities if they didn't vote for them.

Do we need bullets to preach the gospel? Did the apostles try to overthrow Rome when they were being persecuted even to death or did they praise God all the way to their executions, joyous and thankful that they were counted worthy to suffer for the sake of His name?

Seems to me that Peter was told to put away his sword and Christ healed Malchus. Don't you ever wonder why God saw fit to record that man's name in scripture?
Click to expand...
"Do we need bullets to preach the gospel?" Bullets are not meant to preach the gospel. Bullets in the hands of a Christian are meant as a means to fulfil his duty to his family. Any Christian who willfully gives up his means to protect his family is worse then a unbeliever.

ESV
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. (1st Tim. 5:8)

With the police less and less able or willing to protect the public, to give up your best means to protect or provide for your family is sin. The key word being "give up" . Remember the lesson from 1st Sam. 13:19:


Berean Study Bible
And no blacksmith could be found in all the land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, “The Hebrews must not be allowed to make swords or spears.”

And yes, you will not make many friends with this mindset.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#8
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
#8
ronair said:
ESV
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. (1st Tim. 5:8)
Click to expand...
"provide for" here does not mean "kill others on behalf of"

look at the context. it's about food and shelter. if you are murdering people for food and shelter i think you're doing something wrong.
 
R

ronair

Banned
#9
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#9
posthuman said:
"provide for" here does not mean "kill others on behalf of"

look at the context. it's about food and shelter. if you are murdering people for food and shelter i think you're doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
provide for
phrasal verb


provided for; providing for; provides for
Definition of provide for

1: to cause (something) to be available or to happen in the futureThe contract provides for 10 paid holidays.The law provides for the appointment of a new official.
2: to supply what is needed for (something or someone)It's hard to make enough money to provide for such a large family.They agreed to provide for the child's education.

The context is about providing for the needs of your family. Food, clothing, protection, shelter etc. are but some of the needs a family must have. If your wife screams out to you for protection against an armed intruder are you going to say "sorry honey, but food and shelter only."

The phrase "provide for" implies the need to make available the means to fulfill a goal or job. Such as the Preamble stating:
"provide for the common defense".

The context is not about simply food and shelter. Widows and orphans need protection from the outside world as well.
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#10
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#10
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." - Romans 13:1-8

The question here is what are the higher powers? Governments? Corporations? Rich families pulling the strings? Media? Churches? God-given conscience? Law and order itself? Jesus himself said to his disciples to flee cities if they faced prosecution (Matthew 10:23). I'm not sure there is a clear-cut answer here.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#11
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,193
113
#11
surfer14 said:
No. But we do need bullets to protect the ones He's entrusted to us.

There's only one reason for the government to disarm its citizens: Because it wants to do something bad to those citizens, and it fears the citizens might shoot back. When good people disarm themselves, bad people are encouraged to do evil Thus by allowing yourself to be disarmed you are leading them into sin.
Click to expand...
No. Their own evil desires lead them into sin.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#12
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,193
113
#12
posthuman said:
... Peter was told to put away his sword and Christ healed Malchus. Don't you ever wonder why God saw fit to record that man's name in scripture?
Click to expand...
What do you think the reason was? :unsure:
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#14
Apr 7, 2014
25,458
13,397
113
58
#14
UnitedWithChrist said:
The question is simple: does a Christian in the USA have an obligation to surrender weapons to an oppressive government?

This is not a useless question. The leftist government of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are clearly trying to seize weapons, and to impose restrictions that would allow for further seizures as they please.

My position is no, a Christian does not have an obligation. Americans have a covenant with those governing them. The rules by which they derive their authority are specified in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. One of the Amendments to the Constitution is the right to bear arms. This right was given to the American people to suppress a tyrannical ruler.

Now, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris want to take away particular weapons, using the claim of "public health concerns". Supposedly, these public health concerns have to do with deaths relating to mass shootings by criminals.
Click to expand...
I find it ironic that Kamala Harris argues for gun control/confiscation for the sake of babies who are being slaughtered, yet she supports abortions up to birth with no limits.


Kamala Harris Reminded Americans She Supports Abortions Up to Birth With No Limits
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#17
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
#17
Magenta said:
What do you think the reason was? :unsure:
Click to expand...
i strongly suspect he is saved..

only John records his name, which is Hebrew and means 'my king' - so i imagine John met him.
only Luke, who most likely is giving Peter's account, mentions that he was healed. in the commotion maybe only Peter saw it?

but here's an Israelite, named 'my king' and coming to take his true King and deliver Him to death. he's spiritually blind and deaf. he's cut by a sword, that's with a word held back in mercy - and given a new ear, one that hears, even while his nation is still crying 'crucify Him!'
isn't this a picture of the restoration of Israel? it's like the promise of ultimate redemption at the end of a chapter of scathing rebuke by one of the prophets -- but He will not be angry forever; He will preserve a remnant.

John is writing to prove that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God - so for him to put this man's name, John is considering it evidence of who Jesus is, that He is the LORD manifest in the flesh. :)
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#18
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
113
39
Australia
#18
surfer14 said:
No. But we do need bullets to protect the ones He's entrusted to us.

There's only one reason for the government to disarm its citizens: Because it wants to do something bad to those citizens, and it fears the citizens might shoot back. When good people disarm themselves, bad people are encouraged to do evil Thus by allowing yourself to be disarmed you are leading them into sin.
Click to expand...
I assume you'd feel totally unsafe in Australia then?

Edit: As I move onto a news site, another mass shooting at FedEx - can't even go to work safely.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#20
Oct 13, 2011
4,622
282
83
#20
I am not an american, but I would advise gun owners in the US NOT to surrender your weapons to the government.

We were too many people in other countries who did so (or "respected" repressive laws of gun control) and ended up rounded up and massacred with zero possibility of self-defense.

You can read history about arabization in northern africa and middle east and also do not forget the armenians of Turkey.

Do not trust governments too much, they are hostile to christianity and freedom.
 
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