Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture
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What? He said "In the world you will have tribulation" Paul teaches that we are saved from the wrath of God, he also teaches that "through great tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of God"
Tribulation comes from man, it is persecution. The great tribulation is the great end=time persecution which we are warned to expect.
Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather His elect from the four winds of heaven" Jesus was post trib.
You must distinguish between Tribulation and the Wrath of God.
Thank you brother for this informative post. I think Mr. Ice has a valid point as well. I'm trying not to become stiff-necked or stubborn with regard to my eschatological views. I have only been studying these eschatological theories for about 5 years or so. It is my view that the church is already undergoing tribulation and has already entered into the approximate 7 year artificial period known as "the tribulation." It is the use of this artificial term that I believe has caused a great deal of trouble. I empathize with your frustration when discussing eschatological theories.
I do agree with you that at the approximate time of the removal of the church, the Anti-Christ will be revealed to the world. I believe in a glorification event that comes before the final harpazo. Since judgement begins in the House of God, it is my view that these first fruit gentiles will return to share the gospel with those who were not ready for glorification, so they can be born again and spiritually ready for the rapture. I think this will happen closer to the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week, than the start of it.
It will matter a great deal when folks are caught up in the great tribulation which they believed they would escape.
They will feel betrayed.
Every difficulty you have mentioned has a resolution. How did the OT saints who were in Heaven on the day of Pentecost receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? We are not told. But we are told that they are the "spirits of just men made perfect".
Only God can restrain and rebuke Satan, as we see in Jude with Michael the archangel, as well as in the book of Job and other Scriptures. So the Restrainer is indeed God the Holy Spirit.
Listen VERY CLOSELY. Jesus s giving the disciples a detailed RUNDOWN of everything that will lead to THE END (70th week), so they would not rush back to Jerusalem when the 70 AD event happened, thinking that Jesus was there !! Jesus did not want them to die hoping he would be coming back in 70 AD, thus he had to give them a detailed account.
No one said Jesus came back in 70 AD, you have a comprehension problem brother.
Matt. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, (1)See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, (1)Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the (2)sign of thy coming, and (3) of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Jesus speaks of THESE THINGS (Temples Destruction) and the false christs and the END not being just yet via these 70 AD events
So, Jesus answers the FIRST QUESTION FIRST !! When shall these things (Temples Destruction) be? Jesus tells them, do not let ANYONE DECEIVE YOU, Jesus is trying to make them aware of his TIMING to come again. Many come in his name means in 70 AD when the Disciples were ALIVE !! In John 5:43 Jesus specifically prophesied that the Pharisees would not accept him who came in the Father's name, but they would soon accept another who came in his own name. This prophecy came true in like 67-70 AD, the Pharisees understanding Rome was the Fourth Beast looked for their Messianic "Political Savior" which is who they thought the Messiah was. Thus they forcefully put forth different men as those messianic political saviors, but of course, to NO AVAIL, this is what Jesus was warning the Disciples about, he was saying many shall come forth just before this 70 AD event where the Temple is destroyed, saying I am the Messiah/Christ, and they will deceive many, and you (Disciples) will hear of Wars and Rumors of wars, but don't worry about it men, THE END IS NOT YET (The 70th week is not at this time when you see the Temple I described DESTROYED, it is by and by or later on down the road.)
Jesus now explains IN DETAIL what leads up to the 70th week END TIME he just stated was not yet. He explains the Church Age
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Jesus speaks of what will eventually birth the 70th-week END. There will be many wars, much pestilence (Black Plague, today's COVID 19, the 1918 flu, etc) Famines, and Earthquakes first. Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted (Paul was beaten so severely that his bones were showing, then he walked 97 miles to another town, that's is a real dedication to Jesus brothers, and they took baths in an open bathhouse, so everyone saw his beating) And they will KILL YOU (the Disciples knew their fate, that's why some asked what about John, and Jesus said what does it matter if I chose to let John live until my coming? So, this as specifically about The Disciples)
These false prophets here NOTICE are not pointed towards as being fake christs per se as in 70 AD, because the Pharisees put those forth to save them from Rome, these false prophets are 2000 years of Church Age false teachers/preachers we see them on every corner today. So, a wise man understands the subtle differences in ALL THREE MENTIONS of christ impersonators in verse 5, false prophets in verse 11, and THE Anti-Christ and THE False Prophet in verse 24. This world indeed waxes colder and colder and the love of sin keeps growing until the end when men are cold as ice and hard-hearted lovers of Evil/Sin (NOW). Jesus then explains that all men during this Church Age time (including the Disciples) MUST ENDURE TO THE END [of one's life]. We must run the full race Paul said, in order to be saved, how else will 5 of the 10 brides be left out of the wedding? FINALLY: Jesus finally gives the Disciples a VERY DETAILED and a VERY CLEAR understanding of when this END TIME 70th week will come, it will only come when the Gospel has been Preached unto ALL THE WORLD, thus the Disciples understood clearly that the 70 AD event could not be Jesus' return because the Gospel had not been preached unto nations like India and China yet, so they understood completely what Jesus was saying, do not go to Jerusalem in 70 AD when you hear Wars and Rumors of Wars, and hear of men claiming to be the Christ/Messiah, it will not be me if the Gospel has not been preached unto all the world, thus Jesus gave them MARKERS they could not mistake.
Matt. 24:15-31 deals with the END TIMES (70th week) and Jesus gives them 12 signs, the last being the Sun and Moon going dark. Thus THAT GENERATION (of Jews) who see the Sun and Moon go dark are THE GENERATION that will see Jesus' Second Coming. He indeed returns after the Tribulation, with the Church who were called up to heaven to marry the lamb(see Rev. 19 it explains its VERY CLEARLY) and thus the Gentile Church is the BARLEY HARVEST, the Jews are THE WHEAT HARVEST that always comes in after the Barley, and the Wicked are the Grape Harvest whom God places in the Wine-press of His wrath.
Take the example of Lot and his family (who had no plans to escape Sodom). They had to be literally dragged out of Sodom by angels so that they would not be subject to the wrath of God. But since Lot's wife was still enamored with Sodom, she paid dearly for it. The lesson here is that those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are NOT subject to the wrath of God.
But they are subject to tribulation, Lot got plenty of that, his godly soul was vexed. Tribulation is persecution.
We have been experiencing tribulation our whole lives. We are not, however, appointed to experience the wrath of God.
Make no mistake Antichrist is coming, he will oppose and exalt himself against everything called god or object of worship claiming that he is himself God.
He is going to attempt to wipe out the church, this is the Great persecution aka as the Great tribulation. The western church is not ready for this.
I agree with you! Although I don’t actually think even that is a valid excuse. The bible says in 2 Timothy 3:12 that all who will live godly will suffer persecution. Also, in Matthew 24 that bible says that ‘after the tribulation’ the rapture will come. Another great documentary on this subject is ‘After the Tribulation’ by Pastor Steven Anderson.
true . but the great persecution is not to be compared to anything else that has gone before, even the holocaust.
The anti-christ has been given permission to try to wipe out the Bride of Christ? Where do you see that?
It makes ZERO sense. We, the Bride of Christ, are waiting for our husband to prepare a place for us and then come for us. There is no tribulation or wrath in that. It is only waiting. Waiting with joy and anticipation.
Does that match the experience of the apostles? we do wait with joy and anticipation but "through great tribulation must we inherit the Kingdom of God"
What I know without doubt is that the Lord is preparing a home for His Bride and we are waiting for Him to come take us home. In the Jewish tradition (which this models), the groom would never, ever, ever make his bride suffer wrath in order to come home as his bride. It is absurd. We have already suffered tribulation and continue to do so, yet we stand fast and wait for our husband to come for us. He is not going to rain fire on His bride for the honeymoon.
No one disagrees, we will not suffer the wrath of God, but we will suffer the wrath of man. The Great tribulation is tribulation of a different order to what we are experiencing now.
So, my husband is going to allow men to break into my parent's home (where I live until my husband comes to get me), so they can rape me? Yea, I doubt it.
And who says "man" has wrath to dish out?
Are you a follower of Jesus? of Paul? has the church experienced persecution and death in past ages?