Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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brightfame52 said:
The blood of Christ was only shed for them that are saved, which are the elect.
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Completely false.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2







JPT
 
FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
This calvinistic doctrine is unbiblical.

You cannot show any verse that supports your statement, and you know it. If it were true, then every calvinst would shove that or those verses down all our throats.

in fact, there are multiple verses that clearly say that Christ died for all.

Nope. Just pointing out the truth. I would never mock the Bible.
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Whenever one calls scripture truth calvinism and rejects it, its mocking scripture.
 
justpassinthrough said:
Completely false.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2







JPT
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No its completely true. Christs blood was shed only for the saved, which are the elect.
 
rogerg said:
What happens to those who are unable to hear or understand the Gospel to come to faith in Christ?
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Jesus already told us that little children are within the Kingdom of God (since they cannot respond to the Gospel). The same would apply to anyone mentally incapable of understanding the Gospel. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and even John Calvin had to admit that, and stated it in His commentaries. But then he created his own warped theology knowingly.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Jesus already told us that little children are within the Kingdom of God (since they cannot respond to the Gospel). The same would apply to anyone mentally incapable of understanding the Gospel. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and even John Calvin had to admit that, and stated it in His commentaries. But then he created his own warped theology knowingly.
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Okay so you're saying that babies are in the kingdom of heaven because they're babies, but, because they age, they are somehow removed from it? At what age does the Bible instruct that occurs? Knowing that would be a critically important piece of information to have should one's salvation be dependent upon it, wouldn't it? Same with the infirm - while infirm they're in it, but if they improve, they're taken away from it? So then, your belief is that one's salvation depends upon their condition or state at any given point in time? Is that how you see it?

By the above, we can see the problem that arises for those who believe as you do -- those who believe the recipients of salvation must do something to get it. It becomes like a too small bed sheet: pull it one way and the feet are exposed, pull another and the chest is. The same salvation principals must govern everyone equally regardless of a person's particular attributes or situation. Too many exceptions and carve-outs exist for your way to have truly come from God. What makes God's salvation plan so marvelous and wonderful is that He alone gives it to whomever He so chooses to give it, regardless of any external or personal factors. Only God could do that.

By the way, Christ died for the world to come, not this current world. This world is to be destroyed by God not saved.

Regarding Calvin's statement, personally, I don't know, nor do I care what he said, but post it anyway so we can see the whole thing.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
Your error is assuming that Scripture truth IS calvinism. It isn't. Any more than Arminianism is Scripture truth.
brightfame52 said:
Its no error, its the truth. Calling bbiblical truths calvinism is mocking, scoffing the word of God.
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So your whole defense is to just repeat yourself??

If you want, I can refute the ENTIRE TULIP. One petal at a time.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
If this is true, then you should able to show verses that say it.

Can you?

By that, I mean GIVE the verses that do say it.
brightfame52 said:
I have given verses, you scoff them as being calvinism. Read the thread.
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Interesting non responsive comment.

When others ask me for verses, I don't punt. I just give them again.

The fact that you have punted says everything. Thanks for the view.

btw, for context, what I asked for was a verse or verses that specifically teach that Christ ONLY died for some, regardless of how they are described.

What the Bible DOES teach is that Jesus Christ died for all. And, no, there is no other descriptive, such as "all the elect" or "all the frozen chosen" or etc.

Let's do this: pick out the one verse that you believe is the most clear about Christ's death being selective for just a few, or not for everyone.

And then I'll discuss it with you. Fair enough?
 
brightfame52 said:
I dont know what you talking about but it sounds ridiculous.
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So lets be very clear. God offers salvation to ALL. But according to your theology Christ did not pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world. Which would mean that God is deceiving a large portion of humanity! Do you see how ludicrous that is?
 
rogerg said:
Knowing that would be a critically important piece of information to have should one's salvation be dependent upon it, wouldn't it?
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You do not need to know any of this. Christians are to simply share the Gospel whether with young children, adults, or anyone else. Since you are obviously an adult, God expects obedience to the Gospel from you and all adults.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
You do not need to know any of this. Christians are to simply share the Gospel whether with young children, adults, or anyone else. Since you are obviously an adult, God expects obedience to the Gospel from you and all adults.
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I wasn't speaking about me since I do not, nor will I ever agree your perception regarding the principals of salvation.
Instead, I was discussing your POV relative to those who are unable to hear and/or believe. My point was that for someone who believes as you do, the knowledge of the exceptions and cut-outs to that belief, if correct, could be critical information. I personally believe that God Himself has chosen whom He will save and that alone is the only factor that matters.
And by the way, we all need to know as much about the Gospel as we can - nothing about it should be considered unneeded of off-limits. How can a Christian correctly share what he does not know?
 
rogerg said:
I personally believe that God Himself has chosen whom He will save and that alone is the only factor that matters.
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Do you realize that that is a nonsensical and unbiblical Calvinistic belief? If God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation, then why does He offer salvation to all freely? Even John Calvin himself had to admit that God offers salvation to all mankind freely (in his commentaries not in his Institutes which itself is shocking).
 
rogerg said:
........................... I personally believe that God Himself has chosen whom He will save and that alone is the only factor that matters................
/QUOTE]

If so............. why was Christ's death on the cross necessary?
Why did God give us............ unlimited times.......for sin forgiveness.
Why did there have to be Adam and Eve as a curse upon mankind?
Why is there a judgement after death.
There are many more.
You are making no biblical sense...or common.
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...timed out...
God has the power to make/direct us to live a righteous life rather than have ....free will....to sin....why not?
 
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