Do you really believe in Jesus?

[Rhomphaeam]

@Evmur
I have expanded on my original statement significantly. And added more clarification of my intentions. No sir, no cult, no hidden motives, no personal agenda. The info I added are here, and here.

I'm reading your site as promised - so don't be surprised if I come back and make some comments here.

In your We Are Christians page.

I see that you have expanded your insults to Calvinist doctrine - or as you perceive it to Calvinists. Now we are on a par with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Not that it bothers me at all - but seriously you need to more substantially qualify what you mean when you separate Calvinist reformed doctrine from Protestant doctrine and then include Baptists with Protestants and make Calvinists like Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses. And just to make a point. If your meaning is to assert a passivity to preaching the Gospel and thus imply that unconditional election has made Calvinists indifferent to their own children (as you did) then how does that marry up with the the Mormon and the JW who have knocked every door in the Western world? I guess you would say that if their children refuse their doctrine - then they refuse their children. Right?

Is that a calculated way to address your overall meaning? Or do you just intend removing Calvinists and those blasphemous cults from the grace of God in it? I have to presume you are sincere - so I must also have to believe that you are not going to remove the grace of God even from the most vilest Calvinist.

Can I ask you to watch this very short video and to tell me what you can see at the 1:20 mark.

This is an independent reformed Calvinist chapel.

 

[Evmur]

@Evmur
I have expanded on my original statement significantly. And added more clarification of my intentions. No sir, no cult, no hidden motives, no personal agenda. The info I added are here, and here.

You make many mistakes. You say Paul did not know the Lord's prayer suggesting he had no knowledge of the gospel preached by Christ and forget Paul's close association with Luke and John Mark. You also overlook the fact that Paul was taught by direct revelation.

Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election.

Why would anybody claim to be born again, saved if it were not true? do such claims at all improve our status among friends and our prospects at work? do people have a high regard for our intelligence because we say we are saved?

 

[christianbeliever144]

You make many mistakes. You say Paul did not know the Lord's prayer suggesting he had no knowledge of the gospel preached by Christ and forget Paul's close association with Luke and John Mark. You also overlook the fact that Paul was taught by direct revelation.

Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election.

Why would anybody claim to be born again, saved if it were not true? do such claims at all improve our status among friends and our prospects at work? do people have a high regard for our intelligence because we say we are saved?

@Evmur
Thank you for the feedback, I agree not the best choice of words about Paul. I'll fix that.
But also please consider this new nugget I found this morning and cried when I did, here.

 

[tanakh]

Thank you for the feedback CherieR.
I actually did not say "requirements". I said: "... should have passionate feelings springing from within for wanting to do ..." There is a big difference. If I don't have that passionate feeling springing from within to want to know more about God, then I should re-examine my status. Am I a true believer?

If you are relying on passionate feelings I would say that feelings passionate or otherwise are not
very reliable. The devil and his supporters had passionate feelings about God . the rest is history

 

[KarynLouise]

I think you are coming from a good place and don't sense any condemnation or anything...




Spend some time on these forums...the people that you are interacting with don't agree with that mentality. I'm sure those who do are a minority on here, at least I hope so.


You mentioned a marriage as a metaphor for our walk (if I'm understanding correctly) and I can't "really" comment on that since I haven't ever been married but don't marriages wax and wane? Highs and lows? Times you feel close and other times distant?

There's a lot to be said here for sure though.


Certainly I don't think you should treat your walk like an overseas spouse who you only send a picture to a couple times a year and despite overtures for you to join them, it would be too difficult to drop everything and why don't they just come to where you are?

There is definitely a mentality floating around (at least for me at times) that God should be where we are and not us be where HE is. Is it selfishness? Is it simple immaturity? I don't know.

It seems that it would be so easy because he sees where we are to meet us there but there's more to it I have yet to fully process so I digress.

Some of the time it's difficult to know where he is specifically but generally speaking we can defer to the written word for sure...like loving our neighbor and working out our own salvation.


I've not been in the best place with my walk over the last few months so take it for what it's worth. I get incredibly tired of certain aspects of the flesh and it does affect things. Quite exhausting. I'm open to elaborating further if you'd like.

Can you message me? I'd be interested in the elaboration.

 

[christianbeliever144]

Can you message me? I'd be interested in the elaboration.

Hello @KarynLouise please email me: Christian.believer144@gmail.com

I did not purchase the messaging option

 

[Blik]

The Bible does not have a list of requirements to must meet in order to say one believes. I believe there is a simplicity to faith in Jesus.

This is what Jesus said, for he pointed to the faith that children have.

Tell a child that there is a list of requirements he must meet and he will say "huh?" But when Jesus speaks to him he doesn't question or ask why, he just follows Jesus.

 

[Evmur]

@Evmur
Thank you for the feedback, I agree not the best choice of words about Paul. I'll fix that.
But also please consider this new nugget I found this morning and cried when I did, here.

Another mistake you make is to say evangelicals teach "do nothing" christianity.

What Paul [and Christ] taught was you can do nothing in order to be saved. Salvation is the free gift of God to whosoever believes.

This grieves people but if anything in the bible were to make me cry for joy, this would be it. That God would be so merciful, so kind. That He would make salvation so easy and simple that a little child will grasp it at once. Jesus IS the good news. Believe the good news, believe in the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved.

The 10 lepers show us that even though God was so kind and merciful to all, only one [and that a gentile] was found worthy to return and give thanks ... he must have been pentecostal for it says he praised God loudly ...

It is just that way ... many will be saved but only a relative few will become disciples.

 

[Evmur]

You make many mistakes. You say Paul did not know the Lord's prayer suggesting he had no knowledge of the gospel preached by Christ and forget Paul's close association with Luke and John Mark. You also overlook the fact that Paul was taught by direct revelation.

Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election.

Why would anybody claim to be born again, saved if it were not true? do such claims at all improve our status among friends and our prospects at work? do people have a high regard for our intelligence because we say we are saved?

Another thing I would say to you is that Jesus did not preach only to the Jews per se or Paul to the Gentiles but they both preached to the chosen of each. The Elect, you don't like that. But God chooses who He will call to follow Him, He calls them His sheeps.

Election does not pertain to salvation but to discipleship, discipleship is what we are elected unto, chosen to be His church, His people.

Election does not hinder or exclude anybody from being saved ... does that cheer you up a little?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Election does not pertain to salvation but to discipleship, discipleship is what we are elected unto, chosen to be His church, His people.

Election does not hinder or exclude anybody from being saved ... does that cheer you up a little?

So when you said, "Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election" @#42 (all to the thread author) what you perhaps should have said is only if a reformed Calvinist wants to talk about election - right? Clearly your teaching gives him some squeeze room to feel better about reformed doctrine. I doubt it will make him feel any better, however, he's ignoring myself - those stern Calvinists! And those wooly Pentecostals.

 

[Evmur]

So when you said, "Your argument about reformed doctrines is another matter requiring a thread of it's own viz a viz predestiny and election" @#42 (all to the thread author) what you perhaps should have said is only if a reformed Calvinist wants to talk about election - right? Clearly your teaching gives him some squeeze room to feel better about reformed doctrine. I doubt it will make him feel any better, however, he's ignoring myself - those stern Calvinists! And those wooly Pentecostals.

I do believe our brother is in earnest ... that we are a chosen people is the doctrine that gives me the most joy.

... nobody else ever picked me for anything much ...

 

[Oblio]

In answer to the O.P., yes, I do...with all my heart!

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I do believe our brother is in earnest ... that we are a chosen people is the doctrine that gives me the most joy.

... nobody else ever picked me for anything much ...

I believe he is being earnest as well. I agree with your joy at being chosen in Christ - especially given the trouble we can face from the enemy of our souls - and not least because we stumble so often. That doctrine has been my comfort many times and I have found that in the end it has been that great love and compassion of the Father in His sovereign will that has had me repent when almost nothing else seems to do it - even knowing I am in sin when I am in sin hasn't always been sufficient. Thats a sad reality of the flesh - but an outstanding gift of God.

 

[Evmur]

I believe he is being earnest as well. I agree with your joy at being chosen in Christ - especially given the trouble we can face from the enemy of our souls - and not least because we stumble so often. That doctrine has been my comfort many times and I have found that in the end it has been that great love and compassion of the Father in His sovereign will that has had me repent when almost nothing else seems to do it - even knowing I am in sin when I am in sin hasn't always been sufficient. Thats a sad reality of the flesh - but an outstanding gift of God.

alleluia ... I have for a long time thought that we are chosen because we are the very worst of sinners, the most hopeless cases ... prolly the dumbest.

 

[Oblio]

alleluia ... I have for a long time thought that we are chosen because we are the very worst of sinners, the most hopeless cases ... prolly the dumbest.

You get no argument from me there! Lol

 

[christianbeliever144]

I do believe our brother is in earnest ... that we are a chosen people is the doctrine that gives me the most joy.

... nobody else ever picked me for anything much ...

@Rhomphaeam and @Evmur
Thank you for the feedback.

@Rhomphaeam,
I am still learning the meaning of "Reformed Calvinist". So are you saying that the difference between Calvinist and Reformed-Calvinist is Calvinist say all saved are elect? and Reformed-Calvinist say only those called to discipleship are elect? And the rest of the Christians destination is agreed upon by both Arminian and Reformed-Calvinist?
And is pre-destined the same as elect?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

@Rhomphaeam and @Evmur
Thank you for the feedback.

@Rhomphaeam,
I am still learning the meaning of "Reformed Calvinist". So are you saying that the difference between Calvinist and Reformed-Calvinist is Calvinist say all saved are elect? and Reformed-Calvinist say only those called to discipleship are elect? And the rest of the Christians destination is agreed upon by both Arminian and Reformed-Calvinist?
And is pre-destined the same as elect?

It was @Evmur who made that distinction. I think that he was expressing his belief based on a refutation of Unconditional Election as a strict Calvinist doctrine. I hold to Unconditional Election. But I do hold most Pentecostals in respect because many are sound believers and have good reason to express a slightly modified understanding of Unconditional Election in the way the brother did. That doctrine could be simply called Election.

What @Evmur and myself exchanged was the basis we can both agree on the essential truth - of another reformed doctrine that is mostly called Depravity. The strict Calvinist doctrine is called Total Depravity. But seeing as @Evmur and myself know only too well that we are wretches and rarely get chosen for anything - we can heartily agree that we (along with all those who come to Christ) are chosen in Him.

You rightly point out that there is a difference that is expressed as Calvinism and Arminianism. I'm a Calvinist and @Evmur would be an Arminian. It is free will that makes the separation.

I also take your point about my using the label reformed Calvinist and why that could imply a less strict version of Calvinism itself. If you are interested I have posted a thread to express my own way of trying to resolve that designation - without refusing a strict Calvinist position of the TULIP meaning.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

alleluia ... I have for a long time thought that we are chosen because we are the very worst of sinners, the most hopeless cases ... prolly the dumbest.

I keep telling brethren that I went to a special needs school having been diagnosed with educational maladjustment between 1969 and 1976. They think I must be joking. What I rarely tell them - because they always refuse the worst of sinners label - is that my mind was healed and restored when I got saved in prison in 1984. The Lord did that to make me a pain in the neck to those who imagine that intelligence is gold sovereign when set alongside the filthy rags of knowing you are a rank sinner. Whereas intelligence isn't with.a bean until it comes under grace. Show me a rank sinner and a man who knows his mind is worthless to God - no matter how refined and carefully manicured for the Seminary - and I know a man who will always fall back onto his humility and thankfulness when he falls even very badly. Grace - not Favour.

 

[christianbeliever144]

I keep telling brethren that I went to a special needs school having been diagnosed with educational maladjustment between 1969 and 1976. They think I must be joking. What I rarely tell them - because they always refuse the worst of sinners label - is that my mind was healed and restored when I got saved in prison in 1984. The Lord did that to make me a pain in the neck to those who imagine that intelligence is gold sovereign when set alongside the filthy rags of knowing you are a rank sinner. Whereas intelligence isn't with.a bean until it comes under grace. Show me a rank sinner and a man who knows his mind is worthless to God - no matter how refined and carefully manicured for the Seminary - and I know a man who will always fall back onto his humility and thankfulness when he falls even very badly. Grace - not Favour.

@Rhomphaeam and @Evmur,

@Rhomphaeam, I agree, as in Matthew 11:25: "At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children."

And I thank you for planting this seed: The Elect is the one called to discipleship. It does line up with the "even the elect" here: Matthew 24:24, "For false messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

I will definitely include this in my Bible studying. If it is from God, it will flourish. I will keep you posted.

 

[Evmur]

I keep telling brethren that I went to a special needs school having been diagnosed with educational maladjustment between 1969 and 1976. They think I must be joking. What I rarely tell them - because they always refuse the worst of sinners label - is that my mind was healed and restored when I got saved in prison in 1984. The Lord did that to make me a pain in the neck to those who imagine that intelligence is gold sovereign when set alongside the filthy rags of knowing you are a rank sinner. Whereas intelligence isn't with.a bean until it comes under grace. Show me a rank sinner and a man who knows his mind is worthless to God - no matter how refined and carefully manicured for the Seminary - and I know a man who will always fall back onto his humility and thankfulness when he falls even very badly. Grace - not Favour.

heavens I am no arminian. I once got howled at because at the time of Amy Whitehouse's sad death I made a post saying "the doctrine of freewill killed Amy Whitehouse" I am unrepentant. the doctrine of human freewill is Satan's no.1 deception in my mind and the mainspring from which flows salvation by works and conditional salvation [probation] oh no no I am not an arminian.