Do you observe the Sabbath?

[TMS]

The law has passed.

which law? Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

You are not required to obey the priesthood.

Not in this world Jesus is the High Priest in Heaven.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
The same with offerings, sacrifices, feast days, and temple laws = They were fulfilled in Christ.
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

The health laws are not applicable.

Why?
If God said it is healthy to wash your hands so germs don't spread, does time make that health principle not applicable?
If God said drinking the blood of animals is unhealthy, do the health principles change because of time?
1Co 1:20 .....hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
If only we listened to Gods wisdom which doesn't change over time.

The moral laws were fulfilled by Jesus.
The new is here and the old has vanished.

Why did Jesus need to fulfill the Moral Law?

 

[ServantoftheMostHigh]

If the law is not valid and no longer requires us to keep it. Why would Jesus give us His righteousness?

Jesus was showing the spiritual aspect of Law. He was the administration of the Spirit, teaching how we can obey from the heart the commandments, so that we don't actually disobey his command outwardly. If you'll remember He said, " you have heard it said, "but I say....'
We can be moral on the outside all day long and be sinning inwardly just as Nicodemus who "kept the 10 commands of God from his youth ".... but He went away sorrowful, because Jesus told him to sell all he had and give to the poor.... showing his heart of covetousness.
The 10 commandments are Valid, but after we come to Christ, there is no need for the tutor, or governor (Law)Galatians 4;2
When we follow Jesus, He gives us his Spirit to guide us and when we love Him and others, we will not offend His Laws. All of those commands hang on the Greatest 2 commands Love God and your neighbor as yourselves.

 

[TMS]

And there is no question that the NT churches were meeting to worship on the first day of the week and to also observe the Lord's Supper.

Christ could have returned the very next day and Paul could have met with the church in Troas the very next day also. But that is not how things went because the Lord was establishing the Lord's Day. And the apostle John was therefore "in the Spirit" (worshipping) on the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10).

Please show me that the church worship on Sunday, as the Lords day.
We can worship on any or every day of the week and that doesn't change the fact that ... "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made". Gen 2:3
He rested on the sabbath (Saturday), and rose on Sunday. How was this establishing the new Sabbath rest? And Rev 1:10 does not in any way prove the Lords Day was a Sunday.
These claims may seem strong to you but your not giving any Biblical evidance, 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Are you suggesting this is what I am doing?

I am sorry. I should have highlighted the direct quote you made. That it doesn't address the practice of Sunday worship in the early church. I am not contradicting you, but trying to bring attention to what I believe is the confusion over the Sabbath. I wrote that in hopes that there would be a seeking these things out to see if it is true. maybe I should have put in a post by itself.

 

[TMS]

Jesus was showing the spiritual aspect of Law. He was the administration of the Spirit, teaching how we can obey from the heart the commandments, so that we don't actually disobey his command outwardly. If you'll remember He said, " you have heard it said, "but I say....'
We can be moral on the outside all day long and be sinning inwardly just as Nicodemus who "kept the 10 commands of God from his youth ".... but He went away sorrowful, because Jesus told him to sell all he had and give to the poor.... showing his heart of covetousness.
The 10 commandments are Valid, but after we come to Christ, there is no need for the tutor, or governor (Law)Galatians 4;2
When we follow Jesus, He gives us his Spirit to guide us and when we love Him and others, we will not offend His Laws. All of those commands hang on the Greatest 2 commands Love God and your neighbor as yourselves.

most people mix up the moral and cerimonial laws. They throw out the baby with the bath water.
The tutor or school master was the cerimonial laws that all helped us to understand the ministry of Jesus. The pass over is a great teacher, showing us that the blood of Jesus (the lamb) was spilt so that Gods wroth would pass over us. So many lessons for us today, fulfilled in Jesus, so we no longer need to observe them.
The moral law is what defines sin and Jesus kept it so He could give us the perfect righteousness of the moral law.

 

[Runningman]

You are reading the eschatology in Matthew 24, this has to be read with Luke 21.

You will end up with a misunderstanding of the eschatology, if you only read Matthew 24. Which is what a lot of folk do and I cannot understand why.

Luke 21:20-24
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled. Woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Notice the first phase, the end of Jerusalem and the temple (AD 70). Then we have the second phase, the age of the Gentiles which we currently are in.

Matthew compressed the two events together, whereas Luke separates the two events.

History confirms the two events are separate.

I don't agree that what Jesus was saying they would take flight from has happened in the past. He was referring to a yet-to-happen future event that involves praying it doesn't happen on the Sabbath, something that people like you and I may be alive to witness and experience, because Sabbath observance isn't voided by environmental factors around us.

This is evident in the next verse:

Matthew 44
21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

So probably the greatest distress that has happened up until the point Jesus said those words was the great flood in the days of Noah. A worldwide calamity of such magnitude has not happened since then up until the present day. Jesus is speaking of something more distressing than the flood.

 

[Runningman]

I missed your last point the first time through. And it kind of makes my point. Sometimes teaching isn't exactly literal, nor is the way it is written meant to make every doctrine.
I can't imagine anyone saying it's ok to misuse your position of authority so long as it makes you appear wise in the world's eyes. But a literalist has no alternative but to given Jesus' praise of the unjust steward.

Jesus didn't teach his disciples in parables. Jesus was being quite literal.

 

[Runningman]

I don't. I will never understand those Judaizers who tell us to keep the Sabbath not eat pork etc.

Sunday is our rest, because of the Resurrection.

Just curious so, if I may, I'll ask you some questions. Anyone is free to answer them.

Do you agree that the Bible never says the Sabbath has been abolished, changed, or replaced? Do you agree with keeping God's 10 commandments? If you suddenly learned that Sabbath keeping is required, would that be a burden to you?

 

[ServantoftheMostHigh]

Do you agree that the Bible never says the Sabbath has been abolished, changed, or replaced?

Not done away because it points to the rest we have in Christ, but if someone wants to keep it, it's not forbidden, but also not required.
Hebrews 4:9 There is a keeping of the sabbath for the people of God. Believing the Gospel and..... striving to enter into that Rest(verse11)
The seventh day rest is a reminder that we rest from our works as God rested from his. Verse 10 whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did.

 

[Runningman]

Not done away because it points to the rest we have in Christ, but if someone wants to keep it, it's not forbidden, but also not required.
Hebrews 4:9 There is a keeping of the sabbath for the people of God. Believing the Gospel and..... striving to enter into that Rest(verse11)
The seventh day rest is a reminder that we rest from our works as God rested from his. Verse 10 whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did.

Hebrews 4:1-13 does not mention Jesus, the Son of God, or say that Jesus is our sabbath rest. It actually refers to the Sabbath that should be entered into as a literal calendar day.

Hebrews 4:1-13 is a concise explanation of the Sabbath day and is a commandment to keep it otherwise we’re disobedient and subject to judgement. Therefore, let us fear while we still have the opportunity to enter into the rest of the literal Sabbath day.

If you take this seriously like I do then I recommend you take a good long hard at Hebrews 4, pray about it, and see what the Holy Spirit says to you.

 

[mailmandan]

View attachment 247360

Like the circumcision of the flesh and the circumcision of the heart.
Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
The new covenant is about a transformed heart. being born of the Spirit.
Keeping the Sabbath and obeying any other law is an inward transformation achived by Gods Spirit in us.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

We are delivered from the laws death penalty the law points out sin and we are free from sin in Christ. "that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve and obey the law in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The new covenant promises that God will write the law on our hearts.

We should look at the life Jesus the perfect standard of righteousness. We should Study the word.... 2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Law (10 commandments) in Ex 20 is clear.
The 4th commandment states....Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

We need to be careful we don't fall under the old covenant and keep the letter of the law in our own strength, without Jesus.
Keeping the Sabbath under the new covenant is achieved by dieing to the flesh, not trying to do it in our own strength, letting Jesus transform and mold us, and trusting in Jesus's righteousness both imparted and imputed.

That still doesn't answer my question and the 4th commandment in Exodus 20 was addressed to the Israelites (vs 2) under the old covenant of law and not to the body of Christ under the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

The apostle Paul made it clear in Colossians 2:16-17 that the sabbath was a shadow of what is to come but the substance belongs to Christ.

The writer of Hebrews made it clear that there remains a "sabbatismos" (not sabbaton) rest for the people of God in Hebrews 4:9 which is in Christ in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

Be sure to go back and read posts #643 and #645. I provided you a link to an article from the 'Sabbatismos' site and there are more articles on that site which may be helpful for you.

 

[mailmandan]

Please show me that the church worship on Sunday, as the Lords day.
We can worship on any or every day of the week and that doesn't change the fact that ... "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made". Gen 2:3
He rested on the sabbath (Saturday), and rose on Sunday. How was this establishing the new Sabbath rest? And Rev 1:10 does not in any way prove the Lords Day was a Sunday.
These claims may seem strong to you but your not giving any Biblical evidance, 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, (Exodus 31:16-17) there is no Biblical record of the sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. (Deuteronomy 5:15) Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

In regards to the Lord's Day, this article from the link below may be helpful for you.

https://www.bible.ca/7-lords-day.htm

Here is link below to another article from the 'Sabbatismos' website that also may be helpful for you.

http://www.sabbatismos.com/the-sabb...required-for-christians/#sthash.gFFXtCsq.dpbs

 

[mailmandan]

Not done away because it points to the rest we have in Christ, but if someone wants to keep it, it's not forbidden, but also not required.
Hebrews 4:9 There is a keeping of the sabbath for the people of God. Believing the Gospel and..... striving to enter into that Rest(verse11)
The seventh day rest is a reminder that we rest from our works as God rested from his. Verse 10 whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did.

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. That person has entered in God’s rest through Jesus "rests from his own work" (in contrast with law keeping) as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of Creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. Although for centuries the Israelites had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadow and reveals the spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

 

[Runningman]

Colossians 2:16,17 isn't about Jesus becoming our Sabbath rest in a substitutional kind of way, i.e., Jesus is keeping the Sabbath for us. This is about being in Christ in order to effectively obey God and therefore keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath is about honoring God and we cannot honor God unless we are in Christ.

Colossians 2
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

I am sorry. I should have highlighted the direct quote you made. That it doesn't address the practice of Sunday worship in the early church. I am not contradicting you, but trying to bring attention to what I believe is the confusion over the Sabbath. I wrote that in hopes that there would be a seeking these things out to see if it is true. maybe I should have put in a post by itself.

I'm in no way offended. I appreciate an exchange of ideas free of malice and desirous of good. And I'm not questioning your motives, merely wanting to understand what you mean by your content.
I follow closely not only what people say but how they say it. Not because I feel offended but because I want not to offend, just as you. Because we can't read facial expressions or body language, we are left with text alone. Sometimes that leads to misunderstanding.
I will never become offended for myself because of what someone writes. What someone may say of me may not be very nice, but I know far worse about myself. So what would be the point. It's intellectually dishonest.
Besides, the content and tone of your response revealed no malice in your intent.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus didn't teach his disciples in parables. Jesus was being quite literal.

He did both. But they could understand because it was given them to understand. The point was, if everything is literal, do you praise unjust men?

 

[KostasLT]

Just curious so, if I may, I'll ask you some questions. Anyone is free to answer them.

Do you agree that the Bible never says the Sabbath has been abolished, changed, or replaced? Do you agree with keeping God's 10 commandments? If you suddenly learned that Sabbath keeping is required, would that be a burden to you?

Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. Since his Resurrection was on Sunday, Christians celebrate Sunday as Lord's Day since then, as a way of following the 4th commandment while taking into account Christ's authority and Resurrection.

The Mosaic Law was abolished but not the 10 commandments. By the way most of the commandments are something any rational human being should submit to, not just a Christian. We should not kill, steal, cheat etc. I don't see why so many people want to abolish them, maybe because they want the death penalty?

It is actually required as per the 4th commandment, but since Christ has authority over the Sabbath and resurrected on Sunday, we interpreted that he prefers us to keep it on Sunday.

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

Colossians 2:16,17 isn't about Jesus becoming our Sabbath rest in a substitutional kind of way, i.e., Jesus is keeping the Sabbath for us. This is about being in Christ in order to effectively obey God and therefore keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath is about honoring God and we cannot honor God unless we are in Christ.

Colossians 2
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

You know what I noticed is twice in Colossians 2 it speaks of the

Colossians 2:16,17 isn't about Jesus becoming our Sabbath rest in a substitutional kind of way, i.e., Jesus is keeping the Sabbath for us. This is about being in Christ in order to effectively obey God and therefore keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath is about honoring God and we cannot honor God unless we are in Christ.

Colossians 2
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

You know what I noticed is that twice in Colossians 2 it refers to commandments/traditions/doctrines of MEN. (Verses 8 and 22) Which leads me to believe that's the context of what we aren't to allow others to judge us by.

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

You know what I noticed is twice in Colossians 2 it speaks of the

You know what I noticed is that twice in Colossians 2 it refers to commandments/traditions/doctrines of MEN. (Verses 8 and 22) Which leads me to believe that's the context of what we aren't to allow others to judge us by.

Because there are a lot of man-made traditions surrounding God's law.

 

[ServantoftheMostHigh]

If you take this seriously like I do then I recommend you take a good long hard at Hebrews 4, pray about it, and see what the Holy Spirit says to you.

Thanks for the encouragement to study and take this subject seriously as you have, but I've kept the sabbath for the last 12 years and over the course of that time and challenge from other people to looked into is seriously how I came to this understanding. As I have said in the earlier thread, I think if we are convinced to keep the 7thday sabbath. Go for it! But let us not judge one another because some keep Sunday and then some keep everyday alike. Romans 14. I would encourage you to look at the Epistle of Barnabas and other early Christians who were taught by John and the apostle Paul. They give some insight on feast days and sabbaths.
It's good thing to pray and study the bible on this issue and I will continue to look at Hebrews and other letters for revelation.
One more interesting thing and I have to go. When God mentions the 7th day at creation, unlike the other days, he never says evening and morning were the 7th day. Something to pray about.

Grace and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!