Do you not understand??

[Omegatime]

Israel became a nation again on May 14, 1948, a date that corresponds to the 5th of Iyar on the Hebrew calendar and is celebrated as Yom Ha'atzmaut (Israel's Independence Day). The date also holds significance within Jewish tradition, as the 14th is connected to redemption, and it falls on the same day of the year as the birth of Abraham according to the Hebrew calendar.

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Adam was made on the original day of Passover. and every patriarch after Adam for 77 generations were born, died and had children on this day. even Christ was born and died on Passover. i know you will not understand but Look at Genesis 5 for starters, this is why no months or days are given.

Abraham also was born and died on this day and the reason Israel left Egypt on Passover.

 

[Edify]

4. Restrainer is removed, the church

Only the Holy Spirit has the power to do that, He is then taken out of the way, not removed.
If He was removed, how could tribulation saints be saved? The Spirit has to draw them.

 

[Omegatime]

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Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphra′tes,

This has yet to be fulfilled

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The scriptures you quote are for the Millenium IMO. Do you think God is with Israel??. Israel is living in a troubled time and Jacob's trouble is right around the corner when the antichrist comes to power. America today keeps Israel's head above water but that
will change also.

The rebirth of Israel and the gathering of the Jews are some of the signs that show we are fast approaching the very last days, not the Millennium. Without them coming to pass, we can't really look forward to any type of rapture.

God will watch over Israel (Jeremiah 24:6) even when they have no support from the rest of the nations.

I think you're just sore that I burst your bubble about your date-setting theories, but the Bible did say we wouldn't know the day or the hour. And so far there has been a 0% success rate of any date-setting predictions ever.

If you still want to figure out the end times, the Bible says we can and should know the season when our Lord Jesus raptures us out. So you can work on figuring out the season, if that will make you feel better.

 

[Blain]

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Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphra′tes,

This has yet to be fulfilled

Do you mean the euphrates river part? Because don't they already own that land?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Do you mean the euphrates river part? Because don't they already own that land?

Genesis says that God promised a much larger land. Israel will be expanded to the Euphrates (likely during the Millennium).

 

[Blain]

Genesis says that God promised a much larger land. Israel will be expanded to the Euphrates (likely during the Millennium).

Ok now I understand, so he was correct then that it has not yet been fulfilled

 

[Omegatime]

Do you mean the euphrates river part? Because don't they already own that land?

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From the Euphrates to Israel is 660 miles

 

[Edward429451]

We are children of light.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober.

The Bible already says when the rapture will occur. It is AFTER the great tribulation. It is clearly and plainly said. No need to have other people explain it to you, no need for charts or extrabiblical writings to prove it.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

It's really clear and simple because God doesn't want this hidden from His people.

The false pre-trib doctrine will cause many people to apostasize when the antichrist is revealed and they're still here. That why it's so dangerous.

Is this the right thread for going in depth into the rapture? We can sure go through the rapture verses but would it be derailing the thread?

"The false pre-trib doctrine will cause many people to apostasize when the antichrist is revealed and they're still here. That why it's so dangerous."

I don't understand how someone so eager for the return of Jesus that they are living in holiness and clinging to their Lord in anticipation of Jesus returning...and then the antichrist is revealed so he turns against God suddenly? I don't buy that. I don't see how that's possible and what you said there is really sort of vague, like your not sure?

I'll get my rapture notes out tomorrow and we can compare notes!

 

[Edward429451]

Israel became a nation again on May 14, 1948, a date that corresponds to the 5th of Iyar on the Hebrew calendar and is celebrated as Yom Ha'atzmaut (Israel's Independence Day). The date also holds significance within Jewish tradition, as the 14th is connected to redemption, and it falls on the same day of the year as the birth of Abraham according to the Hebrew calendar.

That day was also prophesied in the book of Daniel.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Only the Holy Spirit has the power to do that, He is then taken out of the way, not removed.
If He was removed, how could tribulation saints be saved? The Spirit has to draw them.

I agree. If the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, He can't be taken out of this world at all because our future brothers and sisters need Him in order for them to be saved. And even beyond that, it's the Holy Spirit that will help us endure the persecution and death we'll face. So that means we're all staying for the great tribulation.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Is this the right thread for going in depth into the rapture? We can sure go through the rapture verses but would it be derailing the thread?

"The false pre-trib doctrine will cause many people to apostasize when the antichrist is revealed and they're still here. That why it's so dangerous."

I don't understand how someone so eager for the return of Jesus that they are living in holiness and clinging to their Lord in anticipation of Jesus returning...and then the antichrist is revealed so he turns against God suddenly? I don't buy that. I don't see how that's possible and what you said there is really sort of vague, like your not sure?

I'll get my rapture notes out tomorrow and we can compare notes!

God never changed His mind. It had always been in the Bible that Jesus returns AFTER the great tribulation. Your notes are not going to help you change God's mind.

 

[Blain]

That day was also prophesied in the book of Daniel.

Yes it was

 

[Edward429451]

God never changed His mind. It had always been in the Bible that Jesus returns AFTER the great tribulation. Your notes are not going to help you change God's mind.

So you dont even want to look at some scriptures and toss this around a little? Ok if that's the way you want it.

You should understand that I was a post tribber for a long time and when I changed my mind about it it wasn't overnight, but a long period of study and scriptures until I seen the truth behind it.

And who said God changed His mind? I didn't say that.

Every single time that I ever discovered that I was wrong about something and then understood the truth...it was because I wasn't reading the scripture literal enough.

 

[Hakawaka]

I posted this message a few times in the past because it was one of the first understandings he gave me about 40 years ago while researching time from creation.

Feeding of the 4 & 5 Thousand--Miracle of Multiplication

Lord does nothing without foretelling his servants the future. Take Malachi 4:2 for example.
But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings ( or rays ). You shall go forth leaping like calves from the stall (grave).

I see this scripture as being meant for the Hebrews and telling of a future resurrection. On that Passover weekend I also see a time element being spoken. Notice the word sun and not son. Not an error in translation; Lord was saying the sun being made on the fourth day, predicted his entry and coming into Jerusalem on that Passover after 4000 years, also the revolution of the year.

Parables and stories are there to alert us things which are shortly coming to pass and for me none is greater than the story of the feeding of the 4 and 5 thousand.

“Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18 Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear? And do you not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up?” They said to him, “Twelve.” 20 “And the seven for the four thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you take up?” And they said to him, “Seven.”

21 And he said to them, “Do you not yet understand?” Mark 8



What a question? Do you not understand? Well, first the baskets. From the Greek manuscripts we see a portent concering the baskets. The basket used to feed the 5000 was a kophino, and the basket used to feed the 4000 was a spuris. This holds true in all 4 gospels whenever the baskets are mentioned, as well in the book of Acts. The kophino basket used to feed the 5000 was jewish because when the people followed Jesus across Lake Galilie he was asked questions only a jew was asked, such as, " Our ancestors ate manna in the wilderness

As for the basket used to feed the 4000, Jesus had left the area of Tyre and Sidon in Lebanon and approached the area of Decapolis. Decapolis was a group of ten cities given to the Greeks for their assistance during the times of conquering the territory. When Apostle Paul was fleeing Damascus, he was let down over the wall in a spuris basket---A Gentile basket in a Gentile city. So we can easily say the kophino basket used to feed the 5000 was jewish and the spuris basket jused to feed the 4000 was Gentile. Strongs Concordance for kophino is #2894 and for spuris #4711.

Now to the feeding of the 4 & 5 thousand. If the Lord had wanted,He could have made it come out to the very crumb as to what was needed to feed the multitude. The miracle was the multiplication of food and we will feed them just as Jesus did! The jews were fed with 5 loaves and 2 fish, and the gentiles with 7 loaves and a few (2) fish.
Feeding of the 5000
5 loaves times 2 fish = 10
5000 divided by 10 = 500 ( Lord divided it among the 5000)
500 times 12 baskets left over = 6000 ( Blessings multiplied)
6000 years

For in so many days the world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. Irenaeus, taught by Polycarp a hearer of Apostle John

Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, He finished in six days. This implies that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifies, saying, Behold, today will be as a thousand years. Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. And He rested on the seventh day. This means: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Barnabas--named an apostle in Acts 14

Feeding of the 4000
7 loaves times 2 fish = 14
4000 divided by 14 = 285.7143
Blessing left over are multiplied
7 baskets left over times 285.7143 =2000
2000 years

This is the number of years till his return. This time is called--The time of the gentiles, all are gentile christians in this story of the 4000..

So you took a miracle that has nothing to do with eschatology, made some math soup out of it and started date setting. You are bound to be wrong, yet again. But will you learn? Or will you just set another date after the tribulation DOESNT start in September 2025?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

So you dont even want to look at some scriptures and toss this around a little? Ok if that's the way you want it.

You should understand that I was a post tribber for a long time and when I changed my mind about it it wasn't overnight, but a long period of study and scriptures until I seen the truth behind it.

And who said God changed His mind? I didn't say that.

Every single time that I ever discovered that I was wrong about something and then understood the truth...it was because I wasn't reading the scripture literal enough.

This has been debated to death for years. I know all the arguments of each side. I'm actually bored of it.

Debating and trying to be clever with words doesn't prove anything. Since we are so close to the actual reality of the very last days coming to pass, I want the actual events to happen to see what is really true.

The rapture or the revealing of the antichrist? Whatever happens first is the true doctrine.

 

[Edward429451]

This has been debated to death for years. I know all the arguments of each side. I'm actually bored of it.

Debating and trying to be clever with words doesn't prove anything. Since we are so close to the actual reality of the very last days coming to pass, I want the actual events to happen to see what is really true.

The rapture or the revealing of the antichrist? Whatever happens first is the true doctrine.

Me too, that's why I asked.

But you think I'm in danger for believing pre trib? Wouldn't you want to help a confused brother out?

Because every time I set my preconceived notions aside to listen to a post trib position, I always can see immediate contradictions, like this one:

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come..../KJV

Delivered us from the wrath to come? What does that mean? What wrath to come? if the rapture is post trib then there's no wrath to come. But the great Trib is God's wrath upon earth, is it not? Sounds to me like the rapture would have to be before the great trib. Unless I'm missing something!

Here's another along the same lines.

Revelation 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth..../KJV

10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world....NLT

If the rapture is post trib then this verse loses meaning. After the great trib, there will be nothing left to protect us from! Right? Or what am I missing?

1 Thessalonians 5:3
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape..../KJV

3 When people are saying, “Everything is peaceful and secure,” then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman’s labor pains begin. And there will be no escape..../NLT

Can a Sister in Christ help out a Brother to understand what this verse means?

How about this one?

1 Thessalonians 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,.../KJV

9 For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us..../NLT

The great Tribulation is God's wrath poured out on earth. If God has Not appointed us to wrath, then He has to pull a Noah on us and takes us to safety. Where does he take us to?

He told His people before He ascended to Heaven, I go to prepare a place for you, right?

Isaiah 26:20-21
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.,,,/KJV

20 Go home, my people,
and lock your doors!
Hide yourselves for a little while
until the Lord’s anger has passed.

21 Look! The Lord is coming from heaven
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will no longer hide those who have been killed.
They will be brought out for all to see..../NLT

Sounds like He will be done building your house/mansion before then!

See my Dilemma? Sounds like He hides us first and then goes back to earth to put evil down and raise up the Millennial kingdom. He also says in scripture that when He comes all of His Saints are with Him, right?

I am Premillennial and so I have been taking scripture more literally than I used to. When I read the what 6 verses? and read them literally and ponder pre/post trib, it makes sense to me to take it literally and that indicates a pre trib rapture.

Now I am aware that post trib (Amillennial) Believers read the scriptures more symbolically and if the truth is post trib them I am missing the symbolism? Can you explain the symbolism to me that I might understand?

This is a good thread!

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Me too, that's why I asked.

But you think I'm in danger for believing pre trib? Wouldn't you want to help a confused brother out?

Pre-trib doesn't prepare you for the great tribulation because the doctrine teaches that you will not have to go through it.

But we are so close to the end times! As you can see, even on these forums, that the great apostasy is coming to pass. Lots of false teaching being embraced instead of clinging to God's truth.

So what is next? The revealing of the antichrist.

So your pre-trib rapture should be happening any time soon before he shows up.

As a matter of fact, a lot of pre-tribbers are having dreams and visions confirming that the rapture will happen next month in September on the 23rd or the 24th.

 

[Edward429451]

Pre-trib doesn't prepare you for the great tribulation because the doctrine teaches that you will not have to go through it.

The Lord impressed upon me that the Super-Preppers with all their equipment and stockpiled supplies will not make them any better prepared than a man who Abides in Christ.

Not that I don't have a plan B because I do. But I am expending more towards cultivating my relationship with the Lord and expecting the rapture to happen. In fact, I feel like, it's been delayed! But who knows if I will be left behind or not? I might need to be prepared somewhat? If I am taken, then I have no use for the prep items, but left behind family and believers may have use of it.

I'm making a Rapture Help Box to leave for family in case I turn up missing.
All old church literature like My Daily Bread and all thoose sorts of things, and I bought a case of cheap Bibles because Bibles will be a Felony during the Great Trib. You wont be able to buy a bible! And I also am making a flash drive (2TB!!!) and have been copying Sermons and Messages from youtube and putting them on a flash drive so whoever finds it doesn't even need internet to view them. So far I think I must have somewhere between 300-500 videos so far. And I still have 1.8 TB left on it! I put the Book of Enoch on it, Jubilees, and the Gospel of Thomas.

Youtube made it so I can't for free anymore so at least I have some on there.

And I got a few guns and load my own ammo and stuff. Jesus said it's good to have a few swords even if you have to sell your cloak to buy your first one! But I don't need a huge 75 gun collection of the old days, lol. That was during Peace time! And as you have aptly pointed out, yes we're in the end times!

So if I have to go through it and am wrong, I'll be somewhat prepared and if I don't I don't, Praise the Lord.

I asked the Lord one time, what is the best way to prepare for things which will come? And His answer surprised me, I wasn't ready for that! He said, Cultivate being able to hear my still small voice within you. I want my people to be able to hear me and then to instantly obey.../

 

[Edward429451]

But we are so close to the end times! As you can see, even on these forums, that the great apostasy is coming to pass. Lots of false teaching being embraced instead of clinging to God's truth.

So what is next? The revealing of the antichrist.

So your pre-trib rapture should be happening any time soon before he shows up.

That's exactly right Sister.

As a matter of fact, a lot of pre-tribbers are having dreams and visions confirming that the rapture will happen next month in September on the 23rd or the 24th.

I see those videos but don't click on many of them. That flies in the face of Scripture. No one knows the day or the hour, not even the Angels or Jesus, only the Father knows.

I was pondering these things one day and I thought, how can Jesus not even know? For He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, and they are omniscient (all knowing!) So, make it make sense to me Lord! How can Jesus not know the date?

And it hit me...It is the Fathers choice. The Father sets the date, and He is keeping His options open! Will He delay it in mercy that His Harvest be even bigger? Will He cut it short because He gets so disgusted at the filth taking place on earth?

So the date hasn't been set yet. Nor will it be set until on the spur of the moment, the Father says, go get your Bride...

That makes sense why Jesus doesn't know!