Do we stress baptism enough?

[Pilgrimshope]

I wish one day people’s eyes will be opened to the weight carried by what Jesus Christ did at Calvary,like there’s nothing under the sun that is more important to God than the value we attach to the sacrifice his son offered! Because life starts from that,the rest of the commandments and or principles given to believers are meant to make His death and resurrection the fulcrum of every man’s life!

amen it’s what getting baptized is about inclusion into that faith

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.


For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as we learn the depth of what’s in the Bible , through Christ we are drawn into him into his death through baptism for remission of sins . And his resurrection through the spirit believing it’s not just to appreciate what he’s done it becomes “interactive “ and provides newness of life through faith hearing his word of life in belief

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[studentoftheword]

Like I proved already, John the Baptist baptized literally everyone in Judea and Jerusalem.

You have proven nothing that is just your interpretation of it ---no where does it name the people ---so your grasping fort straws with your proof -----you prove nothing---

Judas was evil and he was picked as a Disciple -----he was not Baptised for sure by John or anyone -----he never Repented ---
So your theory is blown out the door with Judas as a Disciple -------being Baptised


I say -------the Scripture doesn't say the Disciples were Baptised by John or by anyone --------and that is a True Fact ---

and besides -----God the Father picked the Disciples -----Jesus Called who His Father told Him to call -------Noah wasn't water Baptised ----Abraham wasn't water Baptised ----and God the Father Picked them and By Faith they obeyed and were deemed Righteous -----God can do as He wishes and Pick who He wants for His purpose -----

--God the Father picked these men for a purpose to bring about His plan of free Salvation -----and God would have or could have changed their hearts and mind right on the Boats they we on -to Follow His Son ------no Baptism required ---they Followed by Faith ------they Obeyed Jesus Command to Follow Him by FAITH ---which God the Father embedded in them when He picked them ------

This also blows your theory out of the water -----

The real truth is you don't know and neither do I as we are both putting our theories out there -----trying to guess ----God didn't think it important to tell us if the Disciples were Baptised or not and we should be satisfied with that Truth


This is the Scripture

Jesus Calls His First Disciples
16 As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 17 “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will send you out to fish for people.” 18 At once they left their nets and followed him.

19 When he had gone a little farther, he saw James son of Zebedee and his brother John in a boat, preparing their nets.

20 Without delay he called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired men and followed him.

 

[peldom10]

The below Scripture is really, really intense regarding not only the Sacrifice of Christ, but how that Sacrifice affects the Eternity of those in times past. Even though many were made Pure, Righteous, and Holy, they still needed to believe in Christ to be made Right with God.

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

This Truly sheds much light on the entire Bible. People ought to think about this passage as they read the Old Testament in a timeline, chronological order. And, we should note that Baptism isn't mentioned in this set of text.

'

So...it wasn't mentioned...how many other's was it not mentioned.......how many others was repentance not mentioned....how many others WAS IT MENTIONED in scripture?.
Your inference is pitifully disrespectful to God's word.

What about Baptism's mention in all these + many more?

Because baptism is required for sin cleansing.

 

[ResidentAlien]

It saddens me to see such a beautiful avatar as the one that you have . . . completely negated by your evil attitude. You're but one step away from being placed on my growing Ignore list.

Who isn't on your ignore list?

The last I heard I was on your list for having a Jesus avatar but not measuring up. Perhaps we should all get Satan avatars or demons; at least then we'd be consistent. Right?

But you probably won't even see this; that's probably for the best. I wouldn't want to "sadden" you further.

 

[Aaron56]

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is a conflation of ideas. I'm not aware of any place in scripture where water baptism is equated with being born. It is always burial.

Are the scriptures just getting it all wrong ?

only Jesus can baptize with the Holy Spirit , he commanded us to baptize In Water as an action based on belief in his name for remission of sins .

One doesn’t replace the other one is what we do believing his promise

the other ( spirit ) is given from him to believers of his promise.

what you said there I’m not sure I disagree with but also I’m not clear what your saying there . Do you agree that the church continued baptizing in water for remission of sins before and after his death and resurrection ?

or are you saying receiving the holy ghost eliminates water baptisms purpose ?

I am an avid supporter of water baptism and I have baptized many. Discerning people’s hearts and circumstances as Jesus did precludes religious activity for baptisms and their administrations. All the baptisms are important for every believer. However, the manner of their administration depends on the individual’s needs. Discernment of the Spirit is the necessary prerequisite for determining timing of the various baptisms in each person’s life.

Before one can come under Christ’s rule as a citizen of the Kingdom of God, the person must be separated from the identity
in Adam and the enemy’s authority. Repentance precedes water baptism because repentance represents death in this process. Repentance results in a changed mind-set from the individual’s innate desire to control all aspects of his or her own life. Through repentance, the individual turns from the imperatives of self-provision and protection that are the legacy of an identity in Adam. Through repentance, a person migrates from the rule of self and Satan to the rule of Christ and begins the transfer from the “dominion of darkness” into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Water baptism is a testimony of burial that the believer has chosen consciously to come under the rule of Christ:

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

This salvation is the salvation from the pursuit and accusation from our enemy.

Having repented, been buried, with the promise of resurrection from the dead with the same life Christ was given, a person leaves behind the kingdom of darkness, Satan’s rule, and the state of death that is separation from God. But note; it is repentance from acts that lead to death (an elementary doctrine) that seals the deal, not baptism in water. Just as Jesus dealt with Zacchaeus here:

Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. 2 Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. 3 And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. 5 And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him, and said to him, “Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. 7 But when they saw it, they all complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner.”

8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.”

9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

This is the discernment that I wrote about: Jesus knew that Zacchaeus had repented because of the things he did and said: willing to be ridiculed, repentance from greed and theft, etc. Salvation was already Zacchaeus' even though he had yet to be baptized in water. And, this salvation was from the grip of the Kingdom of Darkness, not simply to go to Heaven. Zacchaeus was now able to receive the kingdom of God as he lived: righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. For such a person, I would suggest that they now be baptized in water. Let me be clear: had Zacchaeus died before getting water baptized he would not have had the chance to walk in the economy of God while alive, but he would be with the Lord for eternity.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

'

So...it wasn't mentioned...how many other's was it not mentioned.......how many others was repentance not mentioned....how many others WAS IT MENTIONED in scripture?.
Your inference is pitifully disrespectful to God's word.

What about Baptism's mention in all these + many more?

Because baptism is required for sin cleansing.

How can you talk about what is and is not disrespectful when you blatantly ignore post after post?

You thrust your doctrines down our throats and yet you ignore the doctrine about being kind, respectful, loving, gentle. Because you refuse to obey the Lord in this manner, all of your teachings are suspect. All of your teachings should be taken with that grain of salt.

 

[Aaron56]

Here's the rub: any believer wanting to be known by baptisms, or gifts, or liturgy, or traditions, etc. misses the mark.

As a kingdom of priests and children of God, we have no use for names like Baptists, Pentecostal, Adventists, Catholic (large "c"), Roman, Mennonite, Methodist, Luther, Orthodox, Non-denomination, etc, etc. etc. These divisions are so glaringly opposed to the Body of Christ that they we are without excuse if we think God is supporting them. And, if God is no longer supporting them why are we?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Here's the rub: any believer wanting to be known by baptisms, or gifts, or liturgy, or traditions, etc. misses the mark.

As a kingdom of priests and children of God, we have no use for names like Baptists, Pentecostal, Adventists, Catholic (large "c"), Roman, Mennonite, Methodist, Luther, Orthodox, Non-denomination, etc, etc. etc. These divisions are so glaringly opposed to the Body of Christ that they we are without excuse if we think God is supporting them. And, if God is no longer supporting them why are we?

I encourage you to keep saying these hard things. They may not make your popular, but the Truth never made anyone popular.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

For the record, I never said baptism is required for eternal life, but it’s necessary to be saved in a different way. Do you think there is a difference? Sure there is a big difference, but it requires a pretty meaty study of the word...All believers get eternal life, but those who are water baptized receive a bonus.

bonus? I don't think so, Since Scripture Plainly Teaches, for Today's believer:

Eph 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who​

Hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ"​

Not sure what "bonus" man can Add to What God Has Done? But, continuing on...

The real truth is you don't know and neither do I as we are both putting our theories out there -----trying to guess

Precious friends, ok, I am all in! I'll let you experts decide IF the following
is a theory/guess OR a "pretty meaty study of The Word Of Truth!" Begin:

Sections 4, 9, & 10, borrowed from my study of 12 baptisms:

ONE of Israel's various washings! Greek: Baptismos = (Hebrews 9:10):

4. Levitical priesthood baptism (Exodus 29:4; Leviticus 8:6; Numbers 8:7!).
This washing was The Second Requirement {The First being: "NO blemish!"
(Leviticus 21:21!)}, in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses!

Is this baptism in any way connected To baptism # 9?:

9. "water" baptism of repentance that John preached (Before The Cross),
- - - - - - And Peter continued (After The Cross!), to preach!
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30;
Acts 10:37; Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16;
Ezekiel 36:25).

a) Does this baptism “save” anyone (Luke 7:29-30)?
-------------------------------------------------
b1) Is this baptism in any way "connected" to baptism # 4?

b2) Wasn't John preparing National Israel for God's Promise For
them “to be a nation of priests unto God" (Exodus 19:6!)?

b3) Was not The Second Requirement for priesthood induction,
Washing? { may require re-review of baptism #4! }.

b4) Did not CHRIST And The Twelve “heal” everyone in Israel who came
to them, in order to meet “The FIRST Requirement” For the priesthood,
that Of "NO blemish!”? (Matthew 4:24; Acts 5:16 cp Leviticus 21:21!).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
c) Is this baptism “for today”? IF this baptism is FOR US Today, we have

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Several More Questions:

c1) Why does NO ONE Today, “teach,” as “John ( Under The LAW! ),
Claimed: it is FOR “making CHRIST Manifest To Israel” (John 1:31!)?

c2) Why does {Almost} NO ONE Today, “Confess their sins,”
when they come to This baptism (Matthew 3:6; Mark 1:5!)?

c3) Why do not ALL Divided “denominations who WATER baptize”
today, agree AS ONE, And “teach” water as John, CHRIST, And
The Twelve ( Under The LAW! ), “taught” That “water baptism Is
FOR The Remission Of sins!” (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38!).

{ instead of each one’s own “symbolic Re-Interpreted Traditions!” }?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - = @studentoftheword's theories/guesses?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baptism Of Anointing?:

10. Pentecostal Spirit baptism

This is the baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, BY JESUS CHRIST,
From Heaven, Poured Out Upon the believing remnant of Israel with
signs and powers following. (Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8;
Mark 16:17-18; Luke 24:49; Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16).

And, is not THIS The THIRD Requirement For "priesthood induction" =
Anointing? (compare Exodus 29:7; Leviticus 8:10-12).

Is God Performing "This" Baptism On us TODAY?
------------------------------------------
Conclusion: @Runningman's "bonus"?:

IF any water adherent, today, Under GRACE, believe he/she has been
water baptized into the Israeli priesthood, is he/she Absolutely
SURE he/she HAS MET The other TWO Requirements Of God?

IF he/she is NOT Absolutely SURE, then doesn't this apply TODAY?:

God Superseded TWO baptisms, Under Law, With ONE Baptism, Under GRACE!

Further "meat" on God's TWO Different Programs!

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is a conflation of ideas. I'm not aware of any place in scripture where water baptism is equated with being born. It is always burial.




I am an avid supporter of water baptism and I have baptized many. Discerning people’s hearts and circumstances as Jesus did precludes religious activity for baptisms and their administrations. All the baptisms are important for every believer. However, the manner of their administration depends on the individual’s needs. Discernment of the Spirit is the necessary prerequisite for determining timing of the various baptisms in each person’s life.

Before one can come under Christ’s rule as a citizen of the Kingdom of God, the person must be separated from the identity
in Adam and the enemy’s authority. Repentance precedes water baptism because repentance represents death in this process. Repentance results in a changed mind-set from the individual’s innate desire to control all aspects of his or her own life. Through repentance, the individual turns from the imperatives of self-provision and protection that are the legacy of an identity in Adam. Through repentance, a person migrates from the rule of self and Satan to the rule of Christ and begins the transfer from the “dominion of darkness” into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Water baptism is a testimony of burial that the believer has chosen consciously to come under the rule of Christ:

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

This salvation is the salvation from the pursuit and accusation from our enemy.

Having repented, been buried, with the promise of resurrection from the dead with the same life Christ was given, a person leaves behind the kingdom of darkness, Satan’s rule, and the state of death that is separation from God. But note; it is repentance from acts that lead to death (an elementary doctrine) that seals the deal, not baptism in water. Just as Jesus dealt with Zacchaeus here:

Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. 2 Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. 3 And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. 5 And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him, and said to him, “Zacchaeus, make haste and come down, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 So he made haste and came down, and received Him joyfully. 7 But when they saw it, they all complained, saying, “He has gone to be a guest with a man who is a sinner.”

8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.”

9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

This is the discernment that I wrote about: Jesus knew that Zacchaeus had repented because of the things he did and said: willing to be ridiculed, repentance from greed and theft, etc. Salvation was already Zacchaeus' even though he had yet to be baptized in water. And, this salvation was from the grip of the Kingdom of Darkness, not simply to go to Heaven. Zacchaeus was now able to receive the kingdom of God as he lived: righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. For such a person, I would suggest that they now be baptized in water. Let me be clear: had Zacchaeus died before getting water baptized he would not have had the chance to walk in the economy of God while alive, but he would be with the Lord for eternity.

“It is always burial.”

well you go beneath the water ( burial ) and you are risen up from the water ( resurrection into a new life)

When you guys are talking about ( new identity ) that equates to a new birth into abrahams family

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s another element of baptism into christs name your no longer identified by your flesh but now are identified in abrahams seed

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we are baptized into Christ , it’s identifying a former gentile as a child of Abraham I’d say that equates with a new birth myself .

but you don’t think John just had come forth baptizing in water saying “ Jesus will come And baptize in the spirit “ and then Jesus saying to those who had been baptized in water “ you must be born of water and spirit “ you don’t see any connection there ?

As I was saying before baptism has many applications remission of sins is when we are baptized into his death ( for our sins ) a new birth is when we are raised up from the water we’re buried in

see the death and new life ? Death to sin and life to God ?

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,

we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

…Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:5, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Think about baptism you are submerged ( buried ) in the likeness of christs death for our sins because you believe , but you aren’t left beneath the water your also raised up in the likeness of his resurrection ( new life )

no one is actually born a second time brother it’s a concept of dying to our old life , and being given a new life receiving the gift of the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Aaron56]

“It is always burial.”

well you go beneath the water ( burial ) and you are risen up from the water ( resurrection into a new life)

When you guys are talking about ( new identity ) that equates to a new birth into abrahams family

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s another element of baptism into christs name your no longer identified by your flesh but now are identified in abrahams seed

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we are baptized into Christ , it’s identifying a former gentile as a child of Abraham I’d say that equates with a new birth myself .

but you don’t think John just had come forth baptizing in water saying “ Jesus will come And baptize in the spirit “ and then Jesus saying to those who had been baptized in water “ you must be born of water and spirit “ you don’t see any connection there ?

As I was saying before baptism has many applications remission of sins is when we are baptized into his death ( for our sins ) a new birth is when we are raised up from the water we’re buried in

see the death and new life ? Death to sin and life to God ?

“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,

we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

…Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:5, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Think about baptism you are submerged ( buried ) in the likeness of christs death for our sins because you believe , but you aren’t left beneath the water your also raised up in the likeness of his resurrection ( new life )

no one is actually born a second time brother it’s a concept of dying to our old life , and being given a new life receiving the gift of the spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We are baptized into Christ's burial through water baptism.
We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit. Here, we take on His account as if it were our own. This is the "one baptism" referenced in Ephesians 4. In the Body of Christ we have no divisive distinction.

The promise of being baptized into Christ's death is the resurrection to life, by the same life the Father resurrected Christ.

"1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin."

We die, like Jesus, upon the moment of repentance. This is how He died: by giving up His own right to rule His life. This is when the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ. In Christ, the old self not only is dead but is crucified. Having died we receive water baptism as a burial. Then, being in Christ and being buried, the Father resurrects us as one without sin so that we may have newness of life.

We are baptized for the remission of sins can be rewritten as we are baptized because of the remission of sins. "For the" does not mean "in order to receive" but "as a consequence". Without this understanding we can make no sense of the account of Peter at Cornelius's house:

"And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."

THEN they were baptized in water. Why didn't Peter say "whosoever believeth in him and is baptized shall receive remission of sins?
Because we would make water baptism a work to receive salvation to get to heaven, even though it is by grace through faith only.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We are baptized into Christ's burial through water baptism.
We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit. Here, we take on His account as if it were our own. This is the "one baptism" referenced in Ephesians 4. In the Body of Christ we have no divisive distinction.

The promise of being baptized into Christ's death is the resurrection to life, by the same life the Father resurrected Christ.

"1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin."

We die, like Jesus, upon the moment of repentance. This is how He died: by giving up His own right to rule His life. This is when the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ. In Christ, the old self not only is dead but is crucified. Having died we receive water baptism as a burial. Then, being in Christ and being buried, the Father resurrects us as one without sin so that we may have newness of life.

We are baptized for the remission of sins can be rewritten as we are baptized because of the remission of sins. "For the" does not mean "in order to receive" but "as a consequence". Without this understanding we can make no sense of the account of Peter at Cornelius's house:

"And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."

THEN they were baptized in water. Why didn't Peter say "whosoever believeth in him and is baptized shall receive remission of sins?
Because we would make water baptism a work to receive salvation to get to heaven, even though it is by grace through faith only.

“We are baptized into Christ's burial through water baptism. We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit.”

so you are saying this ?

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,(water)

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” ( spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

both are because of believing his promise only one can we ourselves act upon.

 

[Aaron56]

“We are baptized into Christ's burial through water baptism. We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit.”

so you are saying this ?

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,(water)

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” ( spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

both are because of believing his promise only one can we ourselves act upon.

I don't believe "water" refers to "baptism in water" in John‬ ‭3:5.

It's a matter of timing. We are saved in Christ. The Holy Spirit puts us within Christ upon our repentance. A man on earth cannot enter the kingdom of God unless his sins have been wiped away. That man becomes clean by his faith in the word of the Lord.

“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you."

Here, the word is the water that washes. Having repented and having been washed by the word, he may enter righteousness, peace, and joy in the Spirit. The same direction is given to husbands:

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish."

Notice she is sanctified and cleansed by the water of the word: holy and without blemish.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I don't believe "water" refers to "baptism in water" in John‬ ‭3:5.

Biblically, how could it? I agree. One POSSIBILITY, and I stress POSSIBILITY is that this passage is saying that a person must be born of a woman's water. This could apply to the Son's of God and those "created" in a Petri dish/cloning. The things that went on in the Old Testament and in times past were shocking, to say the least. Technology and machinery was obviously part of our past; this has become undeniable. So being born of water could be relaying a concept that we're just now beginning to realize and grasp. But again, this is an extreme POSSIBILITY.

 

[Runningman]

Here's the rub: any believer wanting to be known by baptisms, or gifts, or liturgy, or traditions, etc. misses the mark.

As a kingdom of priests and children of God, we have no use for names like Baptists, Pentecostal, Adventists, Catholic (large "c"), Roman, Mennonite, Methodist, Luther, Orthodox, Non-denomination, etc, etc. etc. These divisions are so glaringly opposed to the Body of Christ that they we are without excuse if we think God is supporting them. And, if God is no longer supporting them why are we?

I think people are so confused at this point that they don’t know they’re confused.

 

[studentoftheword]

Interesting Take on Baptism from Jews for Jesus -------read all for yourselves ----I just posted parts of it

Baptism: Pagan or Jewish?
by Ceil Rosen |July 01 1983

https://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/issues-v02-n10/baptism-pagan-or-jewish/

Mikveh the Forerunner of Baptism
Along with the purposes already mentioned in the Torah, another use of symbolic purification by water became part of early Jewish tradition. This was immersion or baptism for Gentile converts to Judaism. Though the only Biblical requirement for entrance into the covenant was circumcision, baptism became an added requisite. No one knows exactly when or by whom the requirements were changed to include baptism, but it was before the time of Jesus.


A Jewish Prophet Who Baptized
From all of the foregoing, we see that the use of water to symbolize cleansing and consecration is very much a Jewish concept, and a very ancient one at that. Because of this, when the Jewish prophet John (Yochanon ben Zechariah) came upon the scene, the Jews of his day saw nothing pagan or wrong in his demands that people repent of sin and be symbolically cleansed in the Jordan River. John's title, "Baptist" (literally baptizer), comes from the Greek verb baptidzo, which carries the same meaning as the Hebrew root taval: to wash by dipping or plunging in water. John's message, though not a popular one, was in keeping with what all the other Jewish prophets proclaimed. He preached God's impending judgment, warning that Israel must repent and be spiritually renewed because the coming of the Messiah was at hand. The self-righteous may have disagreed about their personal need for repentance, but they had no quarrel with John's method of symbolic cleansing. Otherwise, surely the religious leaders would have had him stoned as a false prophet.

One day Jesus came to the Jordan to be baptized by John. Recognizing Jesus as the Messiah, John pointed him out to the crowd, saying, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1 :29b). Although Jesus was perfect and sinless, by being baptized with penitent sinners he identified himself as the one who had been sent to suffer God's wrath and judgment, so that all who would believe in him might go free.

In the days Messiah walked this earth, those who repented and were symbolically cleansed by John in the river still brought animal sacrifices to the Temple in order to receive God's forgiveness. But after the righteous Messiah gave his life as an atonement for sin, baptism took on a different and fuller meaning for those who believed. Now those who accepted Messiah's atonement on their behalf received a new and permanent cleansing through his sacrificial death. Then, after believing, they were baptized in obedience to his command (Matthew 28:19)

New Covenant Baptism
The New Covenant portion of the Bible (known as the New Testament) ascribes a multiple symbolism to the baptism of believers in Jesus the Messiah.

Titus 3:5 teaches that baptism depicts the washing away of sin and uncleanness by Messiah's blood sacrifice, and the giving of new life by God's Holy Spirit to those who are cleansed in this way.

Romans 6:3-4 further describes baptism as a picture of death and resurrection. That is, by his baptism the believer publicly announces that through faith in the Messiah, he has died to his old sinful ways and has been made alive to God. The New Covenant scriptures teach that those who believe in the Messiah are plunged or buried into his atoning death, so that God might raise them to a new life, even as the Messiah himself rose from the dead.

A Final Mikveh or Baptism to Come
In the 36th chapter of Ezekiel, God promised Israel final cleansing and restoration in the Days of the Messiah.Won't you accept God's way of being clean and acceptable to Him?

The real baptism—the inner washing of the human heart—comes first. The water baptism that follows is only a public announcement of what has happened within, and we who believe make this public proclamation because we want to share our good news with others.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't believe "water" refers to "baptism in water" in John‬ ‭3:5.

It's a matter of timing. We are saved in Christ. The Holy Spirit puts us within Christ upon our repentance. A man on earth cannot enter the kingdom of God unless his sins have been wiped away. That man becomes clean by his faith in the word of the Lord.

“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you."

Here, the word is the water that washes. Having repented and having been washed by the word, he may enter righteousness, peace, and joy in the Spirit. The same direction is given to husbands:

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish."

Notice she is sanctified and cleansed by the water of the word: holy and without blemish.

…… ok brother

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think people are so confused at this point that they don’t know they’re confused.

Amen simplicity speaks
Best

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. ….

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Biblically, how could it? I agree. One POSSIBILITY, and I stress POSSIBILITY is that this passage is saying that a person must be born of a woman's water. This could apply to the Son's of God and those "created" in a Petri dish/cloning. The things that went on in the Old Testament and in times past were shocking, to say the least. Technology and machinery was obviously part of our past; this has become undeniable. So being born of water could be relaying a concept that we're just now beginning to realize and grasp. But again, this is an extreme POSSIBILITY.

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everyone has been baptized in water and John was saying “ he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost “

Jesus came along and said this to those who had been baptized in water already

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after Jesus died and rose

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,( johns baptism )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( Christs gift through belief )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to the Gentiles even later

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ( christs gift through belief )

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

… Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. ( johns baptism in water ) Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-45, 47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice how it never changes it seems like they believed people were to be baptized for repentance and remission of sins in water , and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost because they believed the word

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth ( gift of the Holy Ghost ) and is baptized ( water for remission ) shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s strange how many interpretations of thkngs that are so plain there are in a forum designed to study what the scripture says.

there must be some amazing revelations that go beyond what the apostles knew and believes and did that I don’t know about but I digress and will Move to a different thread and subject

 

[Aaron56]

I think people are so confused at this point that they don’t know they’re confused.

Yeah, I had another paragraph started but I didn‘t want to derail the thread.