Do We Sleep?
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I disagree. The dead body can no longer be awakened., It will turn back to dust like God said it would. The spirit does rest and sleep and can be awakened.
After the cross, some saints resurrected? Where did they go to? The rest in Heaven? What about David. Here it says he didn't go to heaven.
Acts 2:29:“Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day."
Acts 2:34,35:"For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’"
My wife had a near death experience before I met her. We studied the scriptures together and still concluded the dead are asleep. Like others have said, these experiences are visions. She believed she talked to the Lord while dead and I do too. God knew He was going to let her come back so He did not let her sleep.
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Yes, deade, after the cross, there is a verse at the end of one of the gospels that's says: and they saw many of their dead walking around.
The dead walking around is found in: Matt. 27:52,53: "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." This is one I am still working on. But it is never mentioned anywhere else. We are told not to draw doctrine on one witness (see Matt. 18:16 and 2 Cor. 13:1).
Hmm...I suppose one witness could be Jesus' words to the thief on the cross...
The others I would have to look for, that say the body goes downward but the spirit upward to God who gave it.
Sufficiently more than three witnesses.
The others I would have to look for, that say the body goes downward but the spirit upward to God who gave it.
Sufficiently more than three witnesses.
Here is your only reference to immediately being in paradise:
Luke 23:43: “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
The original Greek did not have punctuation. So we can move the comma, and it reads differently. That is why the Lord doesn’t allow us to draw doctrine on one witness.
Luke 23:43: “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Do you really think that Jesus went to heaven that day? No, he went on Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet: John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”
John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.” That is when He tells Thomas to touch HIs hands and side.
You will have to show me the scripture where the spirit goes up, for context.
Luke 23:43: “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
The original Greek did not have punctuation. So we can move the comma, and it reads differently. That is why the Lord doesn’t allow us to draw doctrine on one witness.
Luke 23:43: “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Do you really think that Jesus went to heaven that day? No, he went on Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet: John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”
John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.” That is when He tells Thomas to touch HIs hands and side.
You will have to show me the scripture where the spirit goes up, for context.
They are no different than prophets having visions of things that must take place in the future. The Apostle John wrote Revelation, because of the visions that he had, Visions that God granted him to see and write about. Those who have Truly had visions of heaven or hell, or only seeing what is in the Future, NOT NOW.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
You do error. Abraham is a human being. ONLY the Tribe of Israel thought of Abraham as a Father. Abraham indeed was a Father of many nations, but He is NOT the Father to the Saints of God. You must be referring to the PARABLE Jesus taught concerning the Rich man and the Beggar. The Father is NOT Abraham.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
For the most part this is True, however Scriptures teach concerning the prophecy of Dry Bones, which speak of the bones becoming human again.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
i am another witness, Those who die in Christ, sleep until He Returns to raise them from sleep. There is ONLY ONE Judgment Day that determines where a person will spend eternity. That day is NOT the day a person ceases to live.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Judgement Day determines where your spirit will go. The death of your flesh does not determine that.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Here is your only reference to immediately being in paradise:
Luke 23:43: “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
The original Greek did not have punctuation. So we can move the comma, and it reads differently. That is why the Lord doesn’t allow us to draw doctrine on one witness.
Luke 23:43: “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
Do you really think that Jesus went to heaven that day? No, he went on Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet: John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”
John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.” That is when He tells Thomas to touch HIs hands and side.
You will have to show me the scripture where the spirit goes up, for context.
All this is True. Jesus did NOT go to Heaven the same day that he was Crucified. He testified Himself that He would be in the heart of the Earth 3 days and night. Therefore to think He took the Thief on the Cross to Heaven on that day is most certainly in error, and is simply NOT True.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
the PARABLE Jesus taught concerning the Rich man and the Beggar.
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels
into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died and was buried." (Verse 22.)
They both died. Did Jesus say the beggar went to heaven?
He said the beggar "was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom."
Now what is a "bosom"? If you can find what a "bosom" is, and in this case
Abraham's bosom, you will know where the beggar was taken.
Look in your dictionary. A "bosom" is the breast of a human being, with the arms
as an enclosure; a loving embrace by the arms of one person about another;
an intimate relationship.
So Lazarus was carried into an intimate relationship with Abraham.
Lazarus here is pictured as a Gentile, who received salvation. Do Gentiles, upon
being converted and becoming Christ's, enter into any intimate relationship to Abraham?
To the Gentile-born Galatians, the Scriptures written by Paul say definitely: "And if ye
be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed (children), and heirs according to the promise."
Thru Christ they become the children of Abraham. Thru faith we all become
"the children of Abraham." That is an intimate relationship with Abraham.
That is being taken into Abraham's bosom!
Now Abraham is an HEIR of God. God gave Abraham a PROMISE.(Gal. 3:29),
those who thru Christ become Abraham's children are heirs-- but heirs according
to the promise God made to Abraham!
And The PROMISE Was Not Heaven!
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels
into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died and was buried." (Verse 22.)
They both died. Did Jesus say the beggar went to heaven?
He said the beggar "was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom."
Now what is a "bosom"? If you can find what a "bosom" is, and in this case
Abraham's bosom, you will know where the beggar was taken.
Look in your dictionary. A "bosom" is the breast of a human being, with the arms
as an enclosure; a loving embrace by the arms of one person about another;
an intimate relationship.
So Lazarus was carried into an intimate relationship with Abraham.
Lazarus here is pictured as a Gentile, who received salvation. Do Gentiles, upon
being converted and becoming Christ's, enter into any intimate relationship to Abraham?
To the Gentile-born Galatians, the Scriptures written by Paul say definitely: "And if ye
be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed (children), and heirs according to the promise."
Thru Christ they become the children of Abraham. Thru faith we all become
"the children of Abraham." That is an intimate relationship with Abraham.
That is being taken into Abraham's bosom!
Now Abraham is an HEIR of God. God gave Abraham a PROMISE.(Gal. 3:29),
those who thru Christ become Abraham's children are heirs-- but heirs according
to the promise God made to Abraham!
And The PROMISE Was Not Heaven!
Judgement Day is after the 1000 year rule of Christ on this earth.
Those given the down payment of the H.S. ,
that determines if you are raised first, or later.
Those already with Him will not even be judged at the "Judgement Day"
They will be raised at Christs return, and be with him here on earth,
long before others are raised[sec], and "the books" are opened.
There are two Judgement Days, one Day for the Saints, and one Day for the Lost.
1) The Rapture that takes place at the 7th Trumpet sounding is Judgment Day for the Saints to be taken up to be with Jesus where He is in the Holy City Jerusalem. He will separate the Typical Christians (goats) from the True Christians (sheep).
2) The Great White Throne Judgment happens after the 1,000 years and satan, demons, and all those that practice iniquity (live in sin) are judged and cast into the Lake of Fire with the antichrist and beast.
Two separate Judgment Days.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
All that is true. Those in the first resurrection the second death and the White Throne Judgement has no power. They are the firstfruits church that goes through judgement while living on earth.
You are aware when sleeping, you act, you are "you", you experience many events while dreaming.
It is not a blackout of consciousness. You just do not have to remember it after awaking.
The Judgement Day that happens after the 1,000 years is the Great White Throne Judgment, which is the judgment of all the unsaved, satan and demons are judged also during the Great White Throne Judgment.
There are Two Judgment Days. The Day of the Rapture, when Jesus Judges who is going to be taken and who is going to be left = Judgement Day. The Great White Throne Judgment is to judge the wicked. Anyone who is cast into Hell will know exactly WHY they are being cast there.
Yes the Great White Throne Judgment that happens after the 1,000 years, the Saints will have already been Judged at the Rapture.
The Rapture, the Second Coming of Christ is a Judgment Day to determine who are taken, who are Saints, who are True Christians, it is not a Judgment Day to condemn the wicked, that happens at the Great White Throne Judgment over a thousand years later.
Psa_1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. (This Judgment is on the Day of the Lord, the Rapture, the Second Coming, When only those who are deemed worthy are taken up to be with Christ where He is. The ungodly and sinners will stand in the Great White Throne Judgment though.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Sorry, i am not use to the new format, it seems i am answered the same post twice.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave