Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[Studyman]

=Budman;3548992]What does the New Testament say about it?

If we are under the Law, we are not led by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:18)

So if I "Love the Lord with all my heart" I am under the Law, and not lead by the Spirit?

I don't think you understand this verse. Many Jews were relying on the "works of a Law" called the Levitical Priesthood which Paul said God "Added" until the seed should come.(Gal. 3:19) If I am still relying on these "works of the Law" for justification of sins, I am not being lead by the Spiritual Laws Paul said was good, just, Holy.

Christ is the end of the Law (Romans 10:4)

This word "end" doesn't mean "END" like end of life. It means intent like "We need look no further" Christ is the living intent of the Law for Righteousness. It is said a different way in another place.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Because He is the perfect example, the intent of God's Commandments, we need look no further than Jesus for how to walk.

To preach that Jesus is the "END" of God's Words which he Himself said lasts forever, is an error given what the scriptures actually say..

No one is justified by the works of the Law (Galatians 2:16)

Surely you know what the sacrificial ceremonial Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" are. You can find them in the OT. They were Laws designed to atone for sins until the Messiah should come. No one is justified by these works of the Law. But these "works of the Law God gave to Moses are not what judges us. The Law of Faith judges us as Paul says.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The Word which became Flesh said the same thing.

Duet. 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God(Word which became Flesh) require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

And again;

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Same Word, same message. I think you have a misunderstanding in this regard.

It has been abolished (Ephesians 2:15)

Eph. 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

What is the enmity? Are you saying God's instructions are the enmity? I don't think you understand this verse.

Jesus said He didn't come to destroy His Instruction given as the Word before He became Flesh. Paul didn't either.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

The Law is not for the Righteous. (1 Timothy 1:8, Galatians 2:21, Romans 3:20)

How was the Messiah made righteous?

Heb. 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

What was He obedient to? Ancient man made doctrines and traditions of the Mainstream Church He was born into?

If I walk into a store and there is a sign that says "Shoplifters with be prosecuted", is this law for me? In truth it is only for me if I am a shoplifter. If I'm not a shoplifter, then this law is not for me.

I don't think you can use this verse to destroy God's Words.

We can't keep it (James 2:10)

The Bible is full of folks who God says followed His Instructions. Abraham, Noah, Abel, Isaiah, Zechariahs, Stephen, Caleb. From the very beginning the Word which became Flesh said we "CAN" overcome.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Abel did, Cain refused, Abraham did, Eve refused. Caleb did, his brothers refused.

23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:
24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

I'm sure James knew of these examples so I don't think it is accurate to say we "CAN'T" do something the Word which became flesh asks of us. We can, it just takes Faith. You should read about Caleb, it is a perfect example of the struggles on this forum.

Not even the Jews could (Galatians 6:13)

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

I don't believe your understanding of this scriptures is accurate either.

The Law and faith do not mix (Romans 3:27-28)

There is a "LAW of faith" and a "Law of Works" (Romans 3:27) So in a sense you might be right. The "Law of faith" does not mix with the "Law of Works". And no Flesh is justified by the deeds of the "Law of Works".

If we rely on observing the Law we place ourselves under a curse (Galatians 3:10-11)

If we rely on the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins as prescribed by God through Moses, "Till the seed should come", then we place ourselves under a curse because we deny the sacrifice of the Christ and are relying on the blood of animals for justification. No flesh if justified by these Laws since the Messiah "changed the Priesthood" (Heb. 7)

The Law is a curse that Jesus redeemed us from (Galatians 3:13)

Rebelling against God's Instructions bring the "curse". Jesus redeemed us from the curse. No so we could continue to rebel against it, but so we would repent, change our mind and walk in it. As Paul said.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of (Man's) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

He says "Walk in them", not rebel against them.

If we continue in the Law we are fools (Galatians 3:2-3)

Again, the Jews were still pushing the old Priesthood with it's ceremonial, sacrificial "works of the Law". They were "bewitching" the Galatians with a priesthood that Jesus had already inherited. Following this "old Priesthood" is foolish given Jesus was now are High Priest and had, with His Blood, forgiven the sins of the Galatians.

We are to live by faith, which the Law is not based on (Galatians 3:11-12)

Again, Galatians was speaking to the old priesthood which was established on works. Paul called it the "Law of Works". You are in Error to preach that the First and Greatest Commandment is not a Law of Faith, but sprinkling the blood of a turtledove for the atonement of sins was not of Faith, but of Works.

I don't think you understand Galatians given you don't seem to understand these basic fundamental truths about the Word..

The Law is lifeless (Galatians 3:21)

The Law only makes us prisoners (Galatians 3:23-25)

We become alienated from Christ (Galatians 5:4)

All speaking to the "Law of Works" of the Old Priesthood. Not the First and Greatest commandment that the Law and Prophets hang on. Remember, Paul and Jesus both warned about the teaching of man and how it corrupts. "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". This post of yours is a perfect example of this truth.

The Law is weak and makes nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:18-19)

What Law is weak? Hebrews 7 specifically tells you what Law he is speaking to. Not the 10 commandments.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (Jesus wasn't a Levite, but from the tribe of Judah. He, as the Word which became flesh told us beforehand of this change in the Priesthood. (Jer. 31:31)

But the First and Greatest Commandment, and the Law and Prophets that hang on it are not weak.

Heb. 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, (Law and Prophets) let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus (The Word which became Flesh) the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I don't think you understand this scripture either.

 

[Chester]

The sacrificial laws were fulfilled in, by and through Jesus Christ. We no longer have to keep those laws. But thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet, etc. those are commands that are still in effect and are reiterated in the NT.

Indeed, there are NT commands to follow and some of these are similar to OT law. But all of the OT law was completely fulfilled. Fulfilled does not mean 'done away with or destroyed" - but fulfilled means "brought to its intended end, purpose". Not a single OT law is a requirement for salvation for the NT believer. But all of the OT law is given for our good to lead us to Christ.

The idea that the OT law is divided into categories such as civil, ceremonial, and moral is man's idea. There is no Scriptural basis for this division. In the New Testament is always all of the law (or just simply "the law") that is fulfilled.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Free from the law of sin not the Law of YHWH...


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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:22 For I delight in the Law of YHWH according to the inward man; 23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members. 25 Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”[/FONT]

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[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Even when shown to people, they can't accept that the New Testament teaches the keeping of the law of Moses (the parts that remain to be literally kept by us). That's how deep and entrenched the false teaching is in the church that we don't have to keep any of the law of Moses. You can thank our early Catholic forefathers for that indoctrination.

NO part of the law remains. It's a new priesthood with new law. And FWIW, gentiles have never been and never will be under the law of Moses.

 

[garee]

The word keep must be defined by the scripture. Only God can keep it perfectly. We as new creatures can guard it with all our new heart soul and mind, knowing as we defend it, it as the sword of the Spirit defends us as the armor of God.

 

[Shamah]

NO part of the law remains. It's a new priesthood with new law. And FWIW, gentiles have never been and never will be under the law of Moses.

brother your words here could not be in anymore direct conflict with the Messiah's words:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:11-12, “Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed (#G3331), there is made of necessity a change (#G3346) also of the law.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]For the priesthood being changed (#G3331)”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n., transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346 [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the priesthood on earth, the Levite priesthood has been abolished, and the Priesthood in the heavens, carried out by Yahshua is established. This “change” or “metathesis” is a removal of one that is replaced by another.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]there is made of necessity a change (#G3346) also of the law.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest. This “change” or “metatithemi” is a transferral.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, “Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]through Him[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], ever living to make intercession for them."[/FONT]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

brother your words here could not be in anymore direct conflict with the Messiah's words:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

All things were perfected in Christ.

 

[Shamah]

All things were perfected in Christ.

ALready? I still see sin and death in the world, I think

1. Heaven and earth has not yet passed:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 5:17-18, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Has heaven and earth passed away? Take a minute to look out your window to make sure....… No it has not? Heaven and Earth is still there? If it is still there, according to the Messiah, not me, according to Him, nothing has or will pass from the Law until this happens. Does Scripture speak of a time when this will happen or is it a figure of speech? [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:1-2, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”[/FONT]



2.All things have not YET been perfected:

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]till all be done/perfected” (all prophecy would be done/perfected)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away.”[/FONT]


THen all will be perfected.

 

[Studyman]

Budman

Do We Have To Keep The Law?

It can never take away sins (Hebrews 10:4)

Heb. 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Absolutely, as Paul said over and over "No Flesh is justified by the "works of the Law" or the "Deeds of the Law". The Jews were "bewitching" the Galatians with this law.

Paul said he himself was not under the Law (1 Corinthians 9:20)

1 Cor. 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

What Law were the Jews following? The Law of faith, or the Old Law of Works?

We have been released from the Law (Romans 7:6)

Rom. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The wages of sin is death. That is the letter of the Law. But Jesus paid this death for me, Why? So I would no longer rebel against Him and His Word, but Serve Him with a changed mind that is not the enemy of God as it was before.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

How can we know how to serve God in newness of the spirit if I reject what His definition of sin is? Now he has written His Commandments on my heart, I am no longer at enmity against God, but a son "Learning obedience as Jesus did."

The Law has been canceled and nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14)

The handwriting of ordinances that were against us were nailed to the cross. Not the definition of sin.

We are dead to the Law (Romans 7:4)

And are resurrected in the "newness of the spirit" that we might offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God, instead of rebellion which caused our death in the first place.

It is obsolete, outdated, and will disappear (Hebrews 8:13)

This is speaking to the Levitical Priesthood that Jesus inherited.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Corrupt Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

No more Levites as it is to this day to administer God's Laws, and to atone for sins. The Word which became Flesh does this now as He promised through His Prophet Jeremiah.

We have been justified apart from the Law (Romans 3:21-22, 27-28)

Apart from the Levitical Priesthood which Abraham didn't have. Those who lie to God and rebel against Him are still guilty. You might read acts 5 about "But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,"

We are under grace, not the Law (Romans 6:14)

Yes, we are under grace through Faith in the Word which became Flesh, not the ceremonial, sacrificial "works of the Law" that Paul was addressing. But of the Law of Faith that we are judged by Paul said:

Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Clear enough?

The Bible is very clear.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."[/FONT]

 

[Troubled65]

[FONT=&quot]the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes YHWH’s mercy and our faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

Sir, could you read Galatians 2:16-19.

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[TrevorAR]

There are New Testament "Laws" that agree with Old Testament Laws or we could say they are cross over laws that we should obey not for salvation sake because salvation is only gained through faith in Jesus Christ sacrifice for us. But moral laws of the old that agree with New Testament commandments like how we treat our neighbor is what we should obey to please God. Yes our behavior/conduct pleases God too, not just faith.

Again let me reiterate: we can not gain eternal life or be saved by keeping laws, eternal life/salvation is found only by faith in the sacrificial lamb of God Jesus Christ who paid for all of humanities sins.

Romans 13:8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[SUP][a][/SUP] “You shall not covet,”[SUP][b][/SUP] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[Shamah]

the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes YHWH’s mercy and our faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

Sir, could you read Galatians 2:16-19.

If you click the "reply with quote" it will quote anothers post as I quoted yours above.

Also yes I ahve read galatians many times, and I understand how Paul speaks. I have taken the whole council of Yah into consideration, including looking at the Hebrew and greek. I hav ecome to the conclusion that the Messiah is the sent one and Him I should obey. I nor any other will obey well enough to "earn" salvation yet this does not nullify His Commands.

SO should we only consider Galatians or Gal 2?

What about when Paul said this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"

I think many people are confused by Paul's writings and thus twist his words, after all, there is only ONE writer who words are singled out concerning this matter, Paul:

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Fact is the ones that enter the Kingdom do honor His Laws:

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.”

No I am not preaching "sinlessness" or "self justification" I am simply taking the entire council of Yah into consideration not just Paul, and select parts of Paul at that.


Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
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[Joseppi]

Even when shown to people, they can't accept that the New Testament teaches the keeping of the law of Moses (the parts that remain to be literally kept by us). That's how deep and entrenched the false teaching is in the church that we don't have to keep any of the law of Moses. You can thank our early Catholic forefathers for that indoctrination.

The New Testament doesn’t teach what you say it teaches.

A disciple of Jesus doesn’t turn away from him and back to the obedience under the law.
The disciples know that it is the gospel of Jesus that pleases God.

If you reject the gospel of Jesus you’ll end up being forced to be a hypocrite.

The Jesus Christ rejecting Jews claimed to love God, and the law of God, and ended up being slaughtered like pagans by the Romans, without a temple, and driven out of the land of Israel.

So, turning back to some cookie cutter version of Judaism is ridiculous.

 

[Studyman]

the Law of the Creator, as James said and as Yahshua Himself said it takes YHWH’s mercy and our faith and works. Romans 10:4 is a verses mistranslated in the majority of Bibles thus blurring the lines of truth. Christ is not “the end of the Law” but rather Yahshua showed the intent, ultimate result or goal (telos) of keeping the Law of YHWH.

Sir, could you read Galatians 2:16-19.

If you don't mind, can you tell me who dealt with the atonement of sins for the people, according to the Laws the Word which became Flesh gave to Moses? I'm talking about before the Messiah came and became our high Priest?

 

[Deade]

Nobody said they claimed to be saved by keeping the law. We are saved by grace, a gift from God.

We have to ask ourselves: What is the law?
Rom. 7:12: "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

The law of God was and still is good.
Jas. 4:17:"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Well then, if it is good I had better do it. Case closed.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The New Testament doesn’t teach what you say it teaches.

A disciple of Jesus doesn’t turn away from him and back to the obedience under the law.
The disciples know that it is the gospel of Jesus that pleases God.

If you reject the gospel of Jesus you’ll end up being forced to be a hypocrite.

The Jesus Christ rejecting Jews claimed to love God, and the law of God, and ended up being slaughtered like pagans by the Romans, without a temple, and driven out of the land of Israel.

So, turning back to some cookie cutter version of Judaism is ridiculous.

here is your impression of what you called the Old Covenant in the Jesus vs Paul's teaching thread, post 241

The old covenant was done away with and replaced because of how bad a covenant it was for mankind.

first of all, has anyone rejected the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and

second...how would YOU personally describe that before saying anyone else has rejected it?

I have news for you. If you reject the gospel you will be cut off from God. A hypocrite would be someone who does not know what they are talking about and wants to correct everyone else about the things they have no clue about

I am sure no one here wants to be like that

We avoid that, by studying ourselves as scripture instructs us to do

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. II Timothy 2:15

you can only be approved if you ACCURATELY handle the word of truth...Bible

Jesus Christ rejecting Jews? Be glad they are there. They are blinded for a time while the Gentiles are gathered in.

Cookie cutter version? honestly I don't think you know what that expression means

Jesus gave new commandments. Are those what you are calling a cookie cutter version of the OT?

see, I don't think you accept, much less understand, much of the NT as many these days are taking leave of scripture and creating paths that twist all over the place and will never arrive at the truth

we don't have to find our way to the truth. It has already been given to us

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

ALready? I still see sin and death in the world, I think

1. Heaven and earth has not yet passed:

You're basing everything on one reading of scripture. Try this one.

But it is easier [for] heaven and earth to pass away than [for] one stroke of a letter of the law to become invalid. Luke 16:17​

So it's not that heaven and earth have to pass away before the law does, but that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than it would be for the law to pass away before it was fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law and all of its righteousness. He perfected righteousness. That's all that the law pertains to.

 

[Shamah]

You're basing everything on one reading of scripture. Try this one.

But it is easier [for] heaven and earth to pass away than [for] one stroke of a letter of the law to become invalid. Luke 16:17​

So it's not that heaven and earth have to pass away before the law does, but that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than it would be for the law to pass away before it was fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law and all of its righteousness. He perfected righteousness. That's all that the law pertains to.

Yes I almost included that also, but did not to keep it shorter.

But are you not doing the same of what you say? Because we should look to both and the entire word.

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Thus if "heaven and earth" must pass before anything can pass from the Law

and

"it is easier for heaven and earth to pass than anything pass from the Law"

how did anything pass from the Law?

Easier implies that heaven and earth will pass before the Law does, that is the same thing Mat 5 says but spoken differently.

BOttom line we can see where heaven and earth "passes" and "new" heaven and earth is restored. SO I don't see how this so hard to understand. Unless one simply will not accept it, but the Messiah said it any who say different are false prophets. No question.

 

[Joseppi]

If you don't mind, can you tell me who dealt with the atonement of sins for the people, according to the Laws the Word which became Flesh gave to Moses? I'm talking about before the Messiah came and became our high Priest?

I’m glad you presented a shorter post.

As you know, only Jesus dealt with the atonement of sins.

Which is why Jesus came after the law, since the law and its priests were not able to atone for sins, since they had nothing valuable enough to pay the actual cost of the sins of the whole world.