Do we decide to be saved?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

For those of you who think that it is mankind's decision to be saved vs. God's Sovereign choice, tell me, what do you think of the following scripture:

"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come."

It is GOD's sovereign choice to throw a life preserver at his appointed time, but it is a drowning person's choice to grab it.

 

[John146]

For those of you who think that it is mankind's decision to be saved vs. God's Sovereign choice, tell me, what do you think of the following scripture:

"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come."

From the foundation of the world, a man's name was written in the book of life for believing God or rejecting Him. If one believes, His name is added. If one rejects God, His name is not added. There were instances before the seal of the Holy Spirit where a man could have his name blotted out of the book of life.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It is GOD's sovereign choice to throw a life preserver at his appointed time, but it is a drowning person's choice to grab it.

That would be a NO! What it demonstrates is that before the world began there were names written in the book of life and there were names that were not written in the book of life and that by God's choosing before the world even began. And those whom He chose, foreknew and predestined and those He predestined, He called and those He called, He justified and glorified.

 

[John146]

It is GOD's sovereign choice to throw a life preserver at his appointed time, but it is a drowning person's choice to grab it.

And that person understands he cannot save himself and that it is Jesus that is providing the salvation. It's called repentance.

 

[Ahwatukee]

From the foundation of the world, a man's name was written in the book of life for believing God or rejecting Him. If one believes, His name is added. If one rejects God, His name is not added. There were instances before the seal of the Holy Spirit where a man could have his name blotted out of the book of life.

You're missing the point! It states that there were names that were not written and that before the world even began. God chose those whom He was going to save before the world ever began and wrote their names in the book of live, again, before the world began. And as the scripture states, there were names that were not written in the book of life before the world began. The key here is that the writing of names and those left out, took place prior to the world even came into existence.

 

[Noose]

Yee men of Galilee are arguing over nothing really, because both positions are true. Man is bound by time so at a certain period in time, man has to make a decision as they are moved in their heart after the gospel is witnessed to them. It is the gospel that saves or condemns a man. However, God is not bound by time and whatever decision man makes is nothing new to God. To Him the end and the beginning are one- He even calls believers the elect. IOW, the will of God happens as He desires, we can't change it.

If you come to know how God created, then maybe you'd understand what this is all about- all i can say is that yee are all gods.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

From the foundation of the world, a man's name was written in the book of life for believing God or rejecting Him. If one believes, His name is added. If one rejects God, His name is not added. There were instances before the seal of the Holy Spirit where a man could have his name blotted out of the book of life.

There's also this after the holy spirit was first given.

But you have a few people in Sardis who have not defiled their clothing, and they will walk with me in white, because they are worthy. The one who conquers in this way will be dressed in white clothing, and I will not blot his name from the book of life, and I will declare his name before my Father and before his angels. Revelation 3:4-5​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Some seem to think that it's inconceivable that GOD could/might/will blot peoples' names out of the book of life. I wouldn't tempt GOD on the matter.

 

[Ahwatukee]

From the foundation of the world, a man's name was written in the book of life for believing God or rejecting Him. If one believes, His name is added. If one rejects God, His name is not added. There were instances before the seal of the Holy Spirit where a man could have his name blotted out of the book of life.

And your answer, is why I also included the following in my first post:

"It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

You see that part above that says, "It does not therefore depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy?" It means that mankind didn't have anything to do with God's decision making, but it was according to His good purpose and will.

To be clear, God did not look ahead to all the future generations to see who would receive Christ or have faith and then write their names in His book. But He chose who He wanted to save, based on His sovereign election, according to His will and purpose and wrote their names in His book before the world began.

 

[John146]

You're missing the point! It states that there were names that were not written and that before the world even began. God chose those whom He was going to save before the world ever began and wrote their names in the book of live, again, before the world began. And as the scripture states, there were names that were not written in the book of life before the world began. The key here is that the writing of names and those left out, took place prior to the world even came into existence.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The word is "from" the foundation of the world, not before. This means since the foundation of the world man's names have been kept in the book. When a man believes, his name is written.

 

[EarnestQ]

Faulty illustration.

Now, can you answer the questions instead of offering a diversion? Or, are you taking this text and distorting it to support that people save themselves? (hint: this text is not speaking of eternal salvation/conversion.)

Just answer the question, or, go study it out in context for the answer. If you don't know, that is OK too, but enough with the diversions, pride, and error.

Here is the question(s) again:



Answer the above and thank you.

You are being rude. Please be more respectful to those who disagree with you.

 

[John146]

And your answer, is why I also included the following in my first post:

"It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

You see that part above that says, "It does not therefore depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy?" It means that mankind didn't have anything to do with God's decision making, but it was according to His good purpose and will.

To be clear, God did not look ahead to all the future generations to see who would receive Christ or have faith and then write their names in His book. But He chose who He wanted to save, based on His sovereign election, according to His will and purpose and wrote their names in His book before the world began.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

God will give mercy upon His terms, man can't will it any other way. If man wants to receive God's mercy, man must do it the way God has provided and that is through His Son Jesus Christ. Man cannot will it any other way. If you reject God's way, then God will harden your heart to things of Him.

 

[Ahwatukee]

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The word is "from" the foundation of the world, not before. This means since the foundation of the world man's names have been kept in the book. When a man believes, his name is written.

"From" the foundation of the world means, prior to anything being created upon the earth.

 

[John146]

"From" the foundation of the world means, prior to anything being created upon the earth.

Sorry, that's not what the word means. From the foundation of the world...the world is the beginning of man's existence on earth. From that time on, God has been keeping a record in the book of life.

Earth and world are not the same in Scripture.

 

[EarnestQ]

Thank you all for your thoughtful (or at lease, honest ) replies. There have been good responses on both sides of the discussion.

My personal feeling is that I am inclined toward election, but, just in case I am wrong, I want to make sure people have an opportunity to decide to believe the gospel.

The Gospel (as I understand it):
1) Believe that Jesus of Nazareth is God's one and only human born Son.
2) Believe that this Jesus was was crucified on the cross in my/our place.
3) Believe that three days later, God rose Him from the dead.

I also like to include that one should ask Jesus, God's Son, to come into their life and grant them eternal life.



I am inclined to think that if one is elected, one may choose to accept this earlier or later in life.

But, what if I am wrong about election? I want to make sure that I have the gospel message ready on my tongue to offer to those who choose to be saved.

One can argue the ins and outs of election versus free will until they die. But I am convinced that we should be ready to present the gospel whenever God gives us a chance to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God will not force a person to recieve somethign they do not desire to have.

God did the work of salvation (the cross)

He did the work of drawing us to him

he does the work of helping us understand the gospel.

but in the end, We have to chose to say Yes Lord I want this gift, Or no thank you Lord. I want to continue to do it my way.

 

[Depleted]

Just wanted to say as well, that my elderly aunt who I take care of,
is born again. She became a Christian when I was a child and started taking
me to church. I had a spectacular personal encounter with God at the age of
around 11. Very few testimonies are so “pow, bang wallop”. But it doesn’t have to be so
dramatic most are more subtle but there is still some form of personal
encounter in there somewhere.

Anyway as time has gone on my aunts faith had been eroded due to life issues.
But for the last few years, even despite the confusion and sickness she has
been praying more.

Then for the last few weeks she had been very confused due to UTIs chest infections.
At one point she was so confused she was hallucinating and didn’t know wot planet
she was on, or whose house she was in. She can barely walk but thought she had been
shopping with lots of children, kept thinking others were in the house.

Yet despite all that I checked on her one night she was very destressed and confused.
She asked me to pray with her as she was very scared. So we did and she sincerely
asked God to protect the children (even though there weren’t any in the house)
and also to forgive her for all the trouble she was causing!

Even in her utter confusion, God was drawing her to Himself!

Its all about God and not about us.

I believe it's always a pow, bang, wallop! It's just the younger we are or the more sheltered we are (at least I keep hoping a lot of people are sheltered lol), the less we have to compare it with. So we don't notice the pow, bang, wallop of it when it happens.

 

[Depleted]

Sounds like a decision to be saved is being made here.

Fix [your] attention on yourself and on your teaching. Continue in them, for [by] doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16​

Strange, since that's a letter from someone who already was saved to someone who already was saved. And, might I say, excellent advice for the saved.

Again, not against choices. Very pro choices. I just can tell the difference between making a choice and getting pushed into a choice. I chose to move to Philadelphia. I never chose to have a bad back. Either way, both things happened. I never chose God. He chose me, and because of that I chose him now.

 

[Depleted]

i think God came to save us through His son Jesus Christ,people are saved by faith,and faith is hearing the word of God ,believing in it,and obeying His commandments, we all have a conscience as human beings on what is good and bad...i think salvation is an option,a chance to love and to believe...we have also been given FREE WILL, salvation has been given to us freely at a price that was Gods own DIVINE blood,getting SAVED is a choice,an exercise of free will.

As Christians, we talk about love, because love is a theme in the Bible and talked about often.

We talk about following the Lord often, because following is a theme in the Bible and talked about often.

We talk about God's glory and glorifying him because his glory is a theme in the Bible and talked about often.

Why do you talk about "free will?" I see that as the antithesis of the Bible and never talked about.

 

[Depleted]

Person A is drowning. Person B throws him a lifeline with float. Does person A save himself by grabbing the float and holding on to it while person B pulls him in to safety?

Person A drowned. He is dead in sin. Now what?