Do SDA believe Michael is God?
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so when you read Daniel you think Beelzebub is "one of the chief princes" equal to Christ???
and you believe this is sound doctrine???????????????
WOW
Michael (Daniel 10:13,21, 12:1; Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7, also see 1 Thessalonians 4:16) means he Who is like unto God, and archangel simply means ruler over or highest messenger. Jesus is the "express image" of His Father's Person, the highest messenger of the Father's love.
Who is like unto the LORD, see Exodus 15:11; 1 Kings 8:23; Psalms 71:19; Deuteronomy 33:26; 2 Chronicles 6:14; Job 36:22; Psalms 35:10, 86:8, 89:8, 113:5; Jeremiah 10:6-7; Micah 7:18.
Ps 71:19: "Thy righteousness also, O God, is very high, who hast done great things: O God, who is like unto thee!"
élohiym miy khämôkhä
Mic 7:18: "Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy."
miy-ël Kämôkhä
See also Isaiah 40:18, etc.
I never used the word "equal", that is your imagination. The text doesn't say equal either. It simply says "one of the chief princes". The Prince of Peace (Jesus) and Prince of the power of the air (Satan). Both are chief rulers over their respective legions. I never said they were equal and the text doesn't say it either. Please, if you could for at least one post put aside the straw men. We know, what the Bible says about those who build by straw.
chief princes are chief princes
you did liken Satan to a prince, Michael to a prince, and use that as an explanation for 'one of the chief princes'
and you think Michael is Christ
so effectually, yeah, you are saying Jesus Christ is on equal footing with Satan.
not unlike LDS who say they are brothers.
You mean the "so called" book of Enoch (1)? You mean that pseudopigraphical apocryphal work by an unknown heretic that contains numerous contradictions to scripture?
The absolute fascinating thing is that though the '1st book of Enoch' attributes this portion [chapter 60 [LX]] to 'Enoch', it is impossible to be so, by the very first line in the text, which reads,
"1. In the year five hundred, in the seventh month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the life of †Enoch†. In that Parable I saw how a mighty quaking made the heaven of heavens to quake, and the host of the Most High, and the angels, a thousand thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, were disquieted with a great disquiet." [quoted from source, '1st book of Enoch chapter 60 [LX] verse 1', but actually is quoted and changed from the source the 'book of Noah'] - http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe063.htm
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Noah
How do we know? Well, what does the Scripture actually say regarding Enoch?
"And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:" [Genesis 5:23]
"And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him." [Genesis 5:24]
For example in 'chapter 65 [LXV]' 'Noah' summons 'Enoch' from Heaven, by crying out to him in [vs 2], 'Hear me, hear me, hear me'. This is ancestor worship, not the worship of God.
There are so many things in that 'source' that directly go counter to the word of God that to consider, 'canon' is extremely dangerous.
It also speaks of 'ten thousand years' [chapter 21 [XXI] verse 7; etc], but we know from the Bible that scripture teaches of the 7,000 year cycle.
If you think Jude cites from it, you'd be in error again, as both Jude and 'Enoch' are citing the OT already written long before either of them.
It is also very interesting to note that that 'source' is only considered valid in other apocryphal and pseudepigraphal works, which also have a great deal of material which goes directly counter to scripture, sorceries, astrologies, relic worship, worship and prayers to/of the dead, etc.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch
Please try to at least stay in actual scripture (John 10:35), and post sensibly, instead of random screeds from some place on the web.
Just 'amening' scripture in so doing. Hopefully you will too some day.
Now the opposing, usurping prince ...
[Satan/Dragon/Serpent/Devil]
"...devils through the prince of the devils." [Matthew 9:34;p];
"...cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." [Matthew 12:24;p];
"...Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devil." [Mark 3:22;p];
"...the prince of this world..." [John 12:31;p];
"...the prince of this world..." [John 14:30;p];
"...the prince of this world is judged." [John 16:11;p];
"...the prince of the power of the air..." [Ephesians 2:2;p];
"...against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]..." [Ephesians 6:12;p];
"...thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers..." [Colossians 1:16;p];
"...principalities and powers..." [Colossians 2:15;p].
Look at the language of the texts:
The "princes" are also the rulers of the priesthood, chief (high) priests (of which Jesus is one of):
Isaiah 43:28 - Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.
Ezra 8:24 - Then I separated twelve of the chief of the priests, Sherebiah, Hashabiah, and ten of their brethren with them,
Ezra 8:29 - Watch ye, and keep them, until ye weigh them before the chief of the priests and the Levites, and chief of the fathers of Israel, at Jerusalem, in the chambers of the house of the LORD.
Ezra 10:5 - Then arose Ezra, and made the chief priests, the Levites, and all Israel, to swear that they should do according to this word. And they sware.
Same words. Jesus is a high priest, a prince of the sanctuary, but He was not the only one. In this additional way, Jesus is one of the chief princes.
There are several other inclusive ways also, as cited previously.
in Zechariah 3:1-2, The LORD (Jesus) is called "the Angel (messenger) of the LORD (Father)", which is why The LORD (Jesus) says what he says,another interesting line of thought for you brother --
in Jude, Michael would not dare to speak a word against Satan directly, but said 'the Lord rebuke thee!'
however in Matthew 16:23, Jesus directly says 'get thee behind Me Satan!'
similarly in Matthew 4:10 He commands Satan 'away with thee!' -- and Satan has no choice but obey, and departs
and even a third witness, John 13:27, Satan had entered Judas and Christ commands him, 'what you do, do quickly'
Michael is meek before Satan, knowing it is not his place. Jesus Christ is not: He speaks to him as God, commanding with all authority.
similarly also, Christ does not say, as Moses and all the prophets, and indeed all the angels, 'thus says the LORD . . ' -- Jesus says, "I say.."
He is the Mighty God
Zech 3:2: "And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"
You mean the LORD (Jesus) rebukes Satan in the Fathers' name (LORD)? Yes, just like in Jude 1:9, for the Son came as Messenger on behalf of the Father, and thus could only speak what the Father gave Him to say, as Highest Messenger of the Father.
Read Daniel 10; Zechariah 3:1-2; Jude 1:9; Revelation 12. Look for the pattern and ever similar meanings.
Compare Jude 1:9 directly to Zechariah 3:1-2. In Zechariah 3:1-2 The Son of the Father came as "the Angel (messenger) of the LORD (person/being of the Father)", but is also identified as "LORD", and rebukes Satan in the Father's name as shown already. Jude 1:9 is simply the same thing. The Son (Jesus/Michael, one who is like God the Father) comes as the highest messenger of the Father's person, and speaks to the devil what the Father gives Him to say, even as Jesus in human nature later:
John 12:49: "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."
Jesus cannot go beyond the words that the Father gave Him to say. There are many texts like that in the NT.
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the timing of Jude 1:9 compared to the time of Jesus in the wilderness. The Father gave Jesus/Michael the exact words to say at the right time:
Eccl 3:7: "A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;"
Jesus would also never utilize a railing accusation, a blasphemous accusing.
It is time for you to think about what time it is for you, who are not studied on this subject.
Most people don’t understand a basic world view from the Bible, that God assigned a guardian angel to supervise each nation on earth, they are known as “sons of God” or “watchers”. In the seven letters in Revelation, they are addressed to the “seven angels”. That’s not a euphemism for pastor or bishop or some other human leader, that’s literally referring to guardian angels. Among these angels, Michael is the guardian angel of Israel. He’s identified as the great protector. That’s not Jesus.
so IOW yeah, you think Satan is equal to Christ, in terms of chiefhood?
but you are uncomfortable with stating it plainly?
1260 days are literally 1260 days, not 1260 years. Those are the Antichrist’s “ministry” as the antithesis of Jesus’s. This “a day for a year principle” is a big one that discredits SDA.
"THE Messenger"
is not the same as
"a messenger"
surely you are smart enough to recognize when the Angel of the LORD is referred to as God and when 'an angel' is not?
We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor
because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
Hebrews 2:9
Notice the words carefully. "Jesus" is the name of the Son "under heaven" "given among men". Michael is the name originally from Heaven amongst the hosts therein:
Rev 12:7: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,".
Did you read, "Michael", "in heaven", "his angels"? , So what about that do you think contradicts the verse you gave or is somehow not in harmony or agreement with it?
Jesus is both "the" and "an". See also Rev. 10:1 for Jesus. If you want to see the Holy Spirit likewise, see Rev. 18:1. The two covering eternal messengers of the Father.
In one sense they are the unfallen heavenly leaders of the unfallen worlds above, and are distinct from the "stars" (standard angels), see Job 1-2, etc. Adam began as the 'god' (steward holding dominion under JEHOVAH Elohiym) of this world, and was it's representative head, a "son of God".
In another sense "sons of God" are all those redeemed among man kind who called upon the name of the LORD.
In one specific sense Jesus is the "son of God", as the only begotten.
Is referring to the Eternal Trio, the Holy Witnesses of all things - Daniel 4:13,17,23
Jer 31:28: "And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD."
Dan 9:14: "Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice."