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KennethC
Guest
We are all created with free will as the bible gives many examples, and here is one that speaks of the falling angels who choose to leave heaven to come down to earth:
Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
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Abing
Guest
Thought so. I was listening to one of Rick Warren's podcast and was surprised when he said that angels have no free will :/
Rick Warren does seem to get some things confused sometimes. That's one of the reasons I said I thought Mike's book, The Jesus Driven Life, was an improvement over Warren's The Purpose Driven Life.
Ive heard muslims believe the angels dont have free will either. The fact that satan and his angels are under judgement is a clear sign of free will though, theyve done something that has cast them under Gods wrath.
Oh, and the bible also tells us fallen angels preach a false doctrine, there are verses that say that any man or angel who gives you a word contrary to the one God has given us is cursed. That would mean that the angels can spread a false doctrine too.
If anyone tells you the angels dont have free will, theyre preaching a false doctrine.
Oh, and the bible also tells us fallen angels preach a false doctrine, there are verses that say that any man or angel who gives you a word contrary to the one God has given us is cursed. That would mean that the angels can spread a false doctrine too.
If anyone tells you the angels dont have free will, theyre preaching a false doctrine.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
hmm, I never heard this, Thanks for the info. Just goes to show we should not just blindly follow anyone.
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KennethC
Guest
I would suggest in love not to listen to anybody who says free will is not mentioned in the bible, as there are many examples where God gives man the choice on who to serve as well.
Free will is a very biblical concept as God did not create any of us to be robots, or puppets on strings !!!
Angels must be holy and pure in a way we do not understand.
They see God face to face and are eternal.
In the garden of Eden Adam chose the fruit, but did not know good and evil.
Mankind then chooses to open their hearts up to God or walk away.
We seem unique in being born outside Gods presence.
Angels appear to have been created to be in Gods presence and never to leave.
Their choice of rebellion must therefore have been different from Adams.
So maybe they have free will, but carnal desires etc are not an issue for them.
This might not be true is the Nephilim are angels.
I am just exploring ideas, as we have very little to go on biblically.
On a pure biological level does an ant have free will, it can choose left or right, but this is not morality or objective choice?
As living intelligent conscious beings it appears they have the ability to choose in that sense, so I would go with yes they have free will.
They see God face to face and are eternal.
In the garden of Eden Adam chose the fruit, but did not know good and evil.
Mankind then chooses to open their hearts up to God or walk away.
We seem unique in being born outside Gods presence.
Angels appear to have been created to be in Gods presence and never to leave.
Their choice of rebellion must therefore have been different from Adams.
So maybe they have free will, but carnal desires etc are not an issue for them.
This might not be true is the Nephilim are angels.
I am just exploring ideas, as we have very little to go on biblically.
On a pure biological level does an ant have free will, it can choose left or right, but this is not morality or objective choice?
As living intelligent conscious beings it appears they have the ability to choose in that sense, so I would go with yes they have free will.
The angels also worship God continually in heaven. I doubt if God created angelic beings like robots and then just "wound them up" to worship Him. He must be very pleased to have these angels freely choose to love and worship Him.
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KennethC
Guest
Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The stars of heaven in this verse are speaking of angels, as it is showing that a 1/3 of the angels chose to follow satan..............
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The stars of heaven in this verse are speaking of angels, as it is showing that a 1/3 of the angels chose to follow satan..............
I was actually thinking about this today, or recently. Is it possible for angels today to go against God? Why don't they? Is it because they have witnessed the goodness of God and truly believe that He is worthy of all worship? Are they so encapsulated in His love (and presence) that they have the fear of the Lord?
Why go against a being who gave you life merely to love you and to love Him back? :3
Haha, being a child of God is a pretty good deal, Id say
Haha, being a child of God is a pretty good deal, Id say
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shotgunner
Guest
I think they have a form of free will but not as we think of free will. Silly example but a dog may have free will but it is not a man and can only exercise it's free will in the arena for which it is created. It cannot do the things a man can do free will or not. Humans and angles are a different species and class, possibly as different as the man and dog example.
Hebrews 1:13-14King James Version (KJV)[SUP]13 [/SUP]But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Hebrews 1:13-14King James Version (KJV)[SUP]13 [/SUP]But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
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KennethC
Guest
Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Here we have the war in heave between Michael and his angels and the dragon (satan) and his angels. Where do we think these angels who are with satan came from?
Nowhere does the bible say satan has the power to create to as he was an angel and creation of God himself, therefore these have to be the angels in heaven mentioned previously in verse 4 that choose to follow him.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Here we have the war in heave between Michael and his angels and the dragon (satan) and his angels. Where do we think these angels who are with satan came from?
Nowhere does the bible say satan has the power to create to as he was an angel and creation of God himself, therefore these have to be the angels in heaven mentioned previously in verse 4 that choose to follow him.
Jesus is the demonstration of love to the whole of creation as reflected in revelation
They sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands,
and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and
the elders. In a loud voice they were saying:
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
Rev 5:9-12
They sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands,
and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and
the elders. In a loud voice they were saying:
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
Rev 5:9-12
in this short video you can watch Charles Spurgeon give Rick Warren a purpose-driven choke-slam:
[video=youtube;UseyIqmeTy4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UseyIqmeTy4[/video]
Did Lucifer choose to attempt to exhalt himself above God....did he attempt to exhalt his throne above the stars of God....as a matter of fact he said I WILL 7 times....
GOD WAS CLEAR....yet thou shalt be thrust down to hell!
GOD WAS CLEAR....yet thou shalt be thrust down to hell!
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ember
Guest
RICK WARREN IS A farce....he has already lumped himself under the psuedo banner of ecumenical religious ineptitude....