Difference between Baptized with the Holy Ghost and being FILLED with the Holy Ghost vs

CS1 · Mar 5, 2022

ASLO I would say no pentacostel as I see it here made this thread about tongues but those who are against tongues, to begin with.

My comments were about the thread topic.

if a person doesn't know from the word of what the following means about the Holy Spirit and HIS working with man:

empowering of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38
baptism of the Holy Spirit John 1:33
having the Holy Spirit in you John 14:17
Having the Holy come upon you Numbers 11:25, Judges 3:10, Judges 6:34, 1 Sam 16:13, EZ 37:1 Luke 3:22, Acts 2:3-4, Acts 19:6,

These are all seen in the word of God.

Aidan1 · Mar 5, 2022

Gardenias said:

Thats correct, but that changes not what I wrote about this teaching.
According this pentecostal/ charismatic teaching, i never met a christian who received the Holy Spirit, and i am also not a Christian who received the Holy Spirit.

The proof to received the Holy Spirit is not speaking in tongues, but the inner witness that the Holy Spirit tells the believers spirit, that he is a child of God. ( Roman 8,16) Something what nobody can take away.

Aidan1 · Mar 5, 2022

CS1 said:

I dont know any teaching which splits so much believers.
You can be glad, in the last 30 years this teaching became much influence in the non pentecostal/charismatic denominations.
This makes it not correct, but to a sign of the time.

Gardenias · Mar 5, 2022

Aidan1 said:

There are MANY things that are talked about on here that I disagree with.

Some are outright lies, some wrong INTERPERTATION taught by man, false doctrine, heresy,doctrines of demons, law practitioners, cultic leanings you cannot believe some people's beliefs.😅
I simply measure what is stated against what is in the word.

I have always been very strong about what people try to make me believe.

I owe only to love others and that gets hard on occasion.

If God wants me to understand something he will show me,Him I trust completely.

Seek and you will find ask and it will be given,knock and it will be opened. We cannot ask for a more faithful God!

CS1 · Mar 5, 2022

Aidan1 said:

empowering of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38
baptism of the Holy Spirit John 1:33
having the Holy Spirit in you John 14:17
Having the Holy come upon you Numbers 11:25, Judges 3:10, Judges 6:34, 1 Sam 16:13, EZ 37:1 Luke 3:22, Acts 2:3-4, Acts 19:6,

read and weep if you like.

CS1 · Mar 5, 2022

Aidan1 said:

the sad thing is you have nothing to add edifying to the post you just troll about tongues LOL.

Beckie · Mar 5, 2022

Gardenias said:

Chapter and verse of passage?

KelbyofGod · Mar 6, 2022

Aidan1 said:

Receiving the Holy Ghost (which comes with the evidence of speaking in tongues because every believer needs the ability to pray in the spirit and "If I pray in an unknown tongue, my Spirit prayeth" according to scripture.) is not something that started, is controlled by, or is occurring today because of anything that happened in 1900 other than a lot of people know about it thanks to those revivals, etc.

Subsequently, even your postings probably help more people be aware of that particular set of revivals and it lets them know that Yes, God can move in the USA, in a big way. That gives them hope and understanding that God can do it again if his people likewise get sincere in prayer. (Thank-you Jesus)

The outpouring of the Holy Ghost has been a divider of the people ever since it's initial outpouring on the day of Pentecost. Haters will hate, mock and seek to stop it, just as the Churchy people did throughout the Book of Acts . But those who will seek the Lord diligently as if what he promised and delivered to the Apostles (and ALL the disciples) on the day of Pentecost is still something he's willing to pour out upon them according to the promise of Acts 2:38-39... these people are still receiving because the promise is to ALL that the Lord our God shall call. It didn't stop at the writing of Acts, and it didn't start in 1900 (no matter what anyone claims).

I didn't even know about those revivals when I received the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues, because I wasn't looking at man to receive it. And it doesn't come from man. Jesus is the ONLY one who baptizes with the Holy Ghost... which means JESUS is the one who decided to include speaking in tongues during the outpouring.

People may get angry that some are saying "Hey, ya know that promise that was poured out on the day of Pentecost and is promised to ALL that the Lord calls? Ya know you need that, right?.. because it's the Holy Ghost... and without the Holy Ghost, a person is NONE of his (because he hasn't yet received the SPIRIT of adoption)" That's not a judgmental "You're not good enough" It's a "Hey, I love you and want you to have it too because it's available to ALL that the Lord our God shall call... and His call is unto you...so tarry until you receive it also.".

It's a foolish thing to our natural mind, but we know it's written that he chooses the foolish things to confound the wise. So it shouldn't surprise us. Yet it does.

You can reject it if you like (based on 1900 or any other doctrine) but speaking in tongues is still a sign to the unbelievers that you you can't deny you've been told about and probably witnessed (even if you don't think it's REALLY speaking in tongues) so you won't stand before God with excuse.

You say "I can't find it pre-1900, therefore it didn't exist during that time" but your limited research 100+ years later is no more reliable than Elijah's conclusion that he was the only one left serving God over Baal in Israel. He said there weren't any others... and he was there while it was going on. (1 Kings 19:10&14) And he was a prophet. BTW, do you realize God had to speak to Elijah to get him to understand the truth about how many were still going for God?.. And from what I remember, you don't believe God speaks like that anymore either... so you're kind of in a pickle (so to speak).

I wish you the best, but I also know the bible tells us there will be mockers in the last days who speak big but don't even have the Holy Ghost. And God will not force you (or anyone) to believe. So it's up to you... but only regarding you. The rest of us can still receive the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues, because God is still pouring it out just like he did in the book of Acts. Thank-you Jesus.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Lafftur · Mar 6, 2022

It’s very simple, no need to complicate it.

God wants a relationship with us and wants us to have a relationship with each other. A relationship MUST HAVE COMMUNICATION.

We are like a cellphone. Jesus Christ purchases us with His Blood and Body. We now belong to Him - we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit.

However, like a cellphone- we have not been “activated.” We belong to Jesus Christ but have no power.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is when we get “activated” - filled with power the FIRST time.

After Baptism with the Holy Spirit, we will need to learn how to plug in to the Holy Spirit and get recharged…be FILLED AGAIN with the Holy Spirit - just like we have to daily recharge our cellphone.

Aidan1 · Mar 6, 2022

Lafftur said:

Your view then says before 1900 and out of pentecostal and charismatic churches are no spirit filled people during the history and are not today. Because this practise and teaching you find only in this doctrines.
I realy cant agree with such a view.
If the Holy Spirit is coming into a believers life he enable him to be a witness for Him and gives him gifts for the ministrie. This has nothing to do with speaking in tongues as a proof for that he came into the life of this person.

Aidan1 · Mar 6, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

Receiving the Holy Ghost (which comes with the evidence of speaking in tongues because every believer needs the ability to pray in the spirit and "If I pray in an unknown tongue, my Spirit prayeth" according to scripture.) is not something that started, is controlled by, or is occurring today because of anything that happened in 1900 other than a lot of people know about it thanks to those revivals, etc.

Subsequently, even your postings probably help more people be aware of that particular set of revivals and it lets them know that Yes, God can move in the USA, in a big way. That gives them hope and understanding that God can do it again if his people likewise get sincere in prayer. (Thank-you Jesus)

The outpouring of the Holy Ghost has been a divider of the people ever since it's initial outpouring on the day of Pentecost. Haters will hate, mock and seek to stop it, just as the Churchy people did throughout the Book of Acts . But those who will seek the Lord diligently as if what he promised and delivered to the Apostles (and ALL the disciples) on the day of Pentecost is still something he's willing to pour out upon them according to the promise of Acts 2:38-39... these people are still receiving because the promise is to ALL that the Lord our God shall call. It didn't stop at the writing of Acts, and it didn't start in 1900 (no matter what anyone claims).

I didn't even know about those revivals when I received the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues, because I wasn't looking at man to receive it. And it doesn't come from man. Jesus is the ONLY one who baptizes with the Holy Ghost... which means JESUS is the one who decided to include speaking in tongues during the outpouring.

People may get angry that some are saying "Hey, ya know that promise that was poured out on the day of Pentecost and is promised to ALL that the Lord calls? Ya know you need that, right?.. because it's the Holy Ghost... and without the Holy Ghost, a person is NONE of his (because he hasn't yet received the SPIRIT of adoption)" That's not a judgmental "You're not good enough" It's a "Hey, I love you and want you to have it too because it's available to ALL that the Lord our God shall call... and His call is unto you...so tarry until you receive it also.".

It's a foolish thing to our natural mind, but we know it's written that he chooses the foolish things to confound the wise. So it shouldn't surprise us. Yet it does.

You can reject it if you like (based on 1900 or any other doctrine) but speaking in tongues is still a sign to the unbelievers that you you can't deny you've been told about and probably witnessed (even if you don't think it's REALLY speaking in tongues) so you won't stand before God with excuse.

You say "I can't find it pre-1900, therefore it didn't exist during that time" but your limited research 100+ years later is no more reliable than Elijah's conclusion that he was the only one left serving God over Baal in Israel. He said there weren't any others... and he was there while it was going on. (1 Kings 19:10&14) And he was a prophet. BTW, do you realize God had to speak to Elijah to get him to understand the truth about how many were still going for God?.. And from what I remember, you don't believe God speaks like that anymore either... so you're kind of in a pickle (so to speak).

I wish you the best, but I also know the bible tells us there will be mockers in the last days who speak big but don't even have the Holy Ghost. And God will not force you (or anyone) to believe. So it's up to you... but only regarding you. The rest of us can still receive the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues, because God is still pouring it out just like he did in the book of Acts. Thank-you Jesus.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Nothing is wrong to reject a false teaching.

CS1 · Mar 6, 2022

Difference between Baptized with the Holy Ghost and being FILLED with the Holy Ghost vs

One baptism, many fillings

Aidan1 · Mar 6, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

Receiving the Holy Ghost (which comes with the evidence of speaking in tongues because every believer needs the ability to pray in the spirit and "If I pray in an unknown tongue, my Spirit prayeth" according to scripture.) is not something that started, is controlled by, or is occurring today because of anything that happened in 1900 other than a lot of people know about it thanks to those revivals, etc.

Subsequently, even your postings probably help more people be aware of that particular set of revivals and it lets them know that Yes, God can move in the USA, in a big way. That gives them hope and understanding that God can do it again if his people likewise get sincere in prayer. (Thank-you Jesus)

The outpouring of the Holy Ghost has been a divider of the people ever since it's initial outpouring on the day of Pentecost. Haters will hate, mock and seek to stop it, just as the Churchy people did throughout the Book of Acts . But those who will seek the Lord diligently as if what he promised and delivered to the Apostles (and ALL the disciples) on the day of Pentecost is still something he's willing to pour out upon them according to the promise of Acts 2:38-39... these people are still receiving because the promise is to ALL that the Lord our God shall call. It didn't stop at the writing of Acts, and it didn't start in 1900 (no matter what anyone claims).

I didn't even know about those revivals when I received the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues, because I wasn't looking at man to receive it. And it doesn't come from man. Jesus is the ONLY one who baptizes with the Holy Ghost... which means JESUS is the one who decided to include speaking in tongues during the outpouring.

People may get angry that some are saying "Hey, ya know that promise that was poured out on the day of Pentecost and is promised to ALL that the Lord calls? Ya know you need that, right?.. because it's the Holy Ghost... and without the Holy Ghost, a person is NONE of his (because he hasn't yet received the SPIRIT of adoption)" That's not a judgmental "You're not good enough" It's a "Hey, I love you and want you to have it too because it's available to ALL that the Lord our God shall call... and His call is unto you...so tarry until you receive it also.".

It's a foolish thing to our natural mind, but we know it's written that he chooses the foolish things to confound the wise. So it shouldn't surprise us. Yet it does.

You can reject it if you like (based on 1900 or any other doctrine) but speaking in tongues is still a sign to the unbelievers that you you can't deny you've been told about and probably witnessed (even if you don't think it's REALLY speaking in tongues) so you won't stand before God with excuse.

You say "I can't find it pre-1900, therefore it didn't exist during that time" but your limited research 100+ years later is no more reliable than Elijah's conclusion that he was the only one left serving God over Baal in Israel. He said there weren't any others... and he was there while it was going on. (1 Kings 19:10&14) And he was a prophet. BTW, do you realize God had to speak to Elijah to get him to understand the truth about how many were still going for God?.. And from what I remember, you don't believe God speaks like that anymore either... so you're kind of in a pickle (so to speak).

I wish you the best, but I also know the bible tells us there will be mockers in the last days who speak big but don't even have the Holy Ghost. And God will not force you (or anyone) to believe. So it's up to you... but only regarding you. The rest of us can still receive the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues, because God is still pouring it out just like he did in the book of Acts. Thank-you Jesus.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The converse conclusion of your teaching is that people who dont speak in toungues never are be able to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
On the other side it is interesting that people who are according your teaching are filled with the Holy Spirit can easily spread false teachings. Sorry this fit not together!

Mission21 · Mar 6, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

Good point.
---
'Revivals' often were..criticized & despised.
- Not just..the Pentecostal Revival.
- in Christian History.
Because..it breaks the existing 'pattern/establishment.'

justpassinthrough · Mar 6, 2022

p_rehbein said:

We're baptized into Christ by the Spirit, at salvation, when we are born again.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

Then we are baptized in water by man.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

Then we are baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ.

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”Mark 1:8

These are the 3 distinct baptisms, with the three different “baptizers” shown in scripture.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Three different baptisms with three different baptizers.

The baptism with the Spirit doesn’t just happen automatically at salvation.

JPT

KelbyofGod · Mar 6, 2022

Aidan1 said:

If you think I was teaching that someone FILLED with the Holy Spirit can "easily spread false teachings", you pretty much missed the point entirely as to what being "FILLED with the Holy Spirit" means.

Someone "FILLED, not just indwelt by, the Holy Spirit" has no room in them for false teachings.. FULL and FILLED by definition mean that there isn't room for something else. If they've still got false teachings coming out their mouth, they're not FILLED with the Holy Spirit... They may HAVE the Holy Spirit, but they're not FULL of the Holy Spirit. (They've got other junk in there.)

And in this last part I'm speaking to you as a friend even though you COULD (please don't) think I'm saying it from a better-than-thou attitude. Until you get "speaking in tongues" it is unlikely that you will be able to understand what I'm saying. "The wind bloweth where it listeth and you hear the sound (of what's being said, in this case) but you don't know where it (the teaching) is coming from and you don't know where it's going (what would be next in the teaching). That's why I started the thread by explaining that this stuff will sound weird to those who don't have the Holy Ghost.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Aidan1 · Mar 6, 2022

KelbyofGod said:

I can give you an example. Today we have millions of charismatic with the Holy Spirit baptised RCC members which are speaking in tongues and at the same time the defend the RCC teachings and claims. According your definition they are filled with the Holy Spirit.
While you telling me that I have not the Holy Spirit, because I dont speak in tongues. If I have not the Holy Spirit then I am also not born again. Ergo i am not a child of God and have no eternal life.
How can I agree with such a teaching?
Which I cant find taught in the word of God?

KelbyofGod · Mar 6, 2022

Mission21 said:

God is going to break more than just the pattern/establishment. He's going to break the nations.

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father." - Revelation 2:26-27 KJV

That doesn't mean he's going to kill the people. It means he's going to destroy that which binds the people together in a way that they have been putting their trust in each other rather than on God alone. In the end, God will be God... and none beside him.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · Mar 6, 2022

Aidan1 said:

Again you missed the point. Those charismatic (tongues-speaking) Roman Catholic Church members HAVE (are baptized with) the Holy Ghost... but who is saying they are FILLED with the Holy Ghost? (Not me). Until you can see that distinction, you don't see what this thread is about.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

KelbyofGod · Mar 6, 2022

justpassinthrough said:

You copy/pasted that from somewhere else, didn't you?

It adds extra blank lines when you do that. Try deleting them all in your normal document before copy/pasting here. Then undo-undo-undo-undo to get them all back if you want to keep your original document for later.

----

I'm going to suggest that Acts 8:16 was only clarifying that they were indeed baptized with water in Jesus' name BUT still needed to be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

What you are suggesting is actually a rather ingenious way to deal with the problem created when people claim "You're SAVED" when they first hear and grasp that Jesus died for their sins...but before they repent and get baptized for remission of sins, or receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

You are acknowledging that a third "thing" has been segregated, and you are actually putting a name to it, which is showing a lot of willingness to admit / take responsibility for it's existence. And like I said, it's an ingenious solution.

Yes, you know there's a "but" coming, BUT I'm not going to say it here..lol I'd rather rejoice that you are able to see that salvation has pieces that don't have to happen all at the same time. The bible supports that with the examples it records. So I'm guessing you don't feel the need to discount the book of Acts as archaic/irrelevant. Am I correct? (I think we've spoken before).

Not needing to throw out the book of Acts as "Just a phase the church was going through" is (IMO) an improvement over the idea of "Acts doesn't count because its examples don't line up with what my pastor tells me".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Difference between Baptized with the Holy Ghost and being FILLED with the Holy Ghost vs

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Pathfinder

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member