Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

Matthew55 · Nov 10, 2019

Galatians 6:2 refers to "the law of Christ". Do we know what is fully contained in the "law of Christ"?

Read James 1:27 and find out what pure religion is and why it is undefiled before God?

Read Matthew 25:31-46 and find out what it takes to be one of the sheep standing on the right hand of God and in his kingdom?

These scriptures, I feel capture the essence of the gospel and how love is living the commandments, and living the commandments is love all intertwined in iiving the pure religion, undefiled before God, and living the "law of Christ".

What a beautiful life this world would be if we lived like Jesus lived.

NayborBear · Nov 11, 2019

DeighAnn said:

Yes! The "forward progress" (becoming more spiritually mature), is by grace, and mercy from God our Father.
It is by our efforts, in what and how we "perform" in these areas "beyond" the principles of the doctrines of Christ, (where grace and mercy are earned, rather then given "free, for the believing of").

Which is more then "salvation by grace through faith alone", that "weaker", or "younger", or "stony ground" "believers", as well as all the other "types of ground" in Jesus' parable of the different types of ground, that seem to have this "tendency" to "stumble" by those things which we post.

Especially, in this venue, where there are "believers/seekers", that run the entire gambit of "Biblical literacy", as well as "levels of maturity or perfection."

Not to mention those who are out right "enemies" of "This Holy Priesthood", to which we have been called out of the world (and some, like myself who were chosen/drafted out of the world). (one may even consider this, and more rightly so, then not? Partaking in the "First Resurrection.")

To wage a (seemingly) never-ending battle for Truth, Justice, and the "Order of Melchizedek", against the "spirit of anti-christ" and "son of perdition", or "sons of darkness"(the "Essenes" called them sons of darkness, in their "manual of Discipline") "workers of iniquity" etc. etc.

One might "liken" it to, and justifiably so (in various degrees), to Jesus' "clearing out the Temple."
Being of a "more deeper root", then "salvation by grace through faith alone?"
This is "seen" by "weaker, and/or less deeply rooted" believers as an "attack on them", and their beliefs.

Beliefs in "traditions?" Yes! As it makes "void" the Word of God!
Attacks on the believer/s themselves?
No!
It is because of love for souls, that ones like myself, relentlessly "show and tell" of that "deeper root", that CAN BE HAD! DURING THIS "LIFE ON EARTH." That keeps just as relentlessly resisting the words of people like myself.
To the point? Sometimes? Methinks? That should Jesus be walking round on earth these days? In todays churches, or online venues? He'd meet with the same execution, as He has throughout the whole course of Issac's Sons! Yea, even before the law of Moses!

NayborBear · Nov 11, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

No? That's how you choose to "see" it!
I, myself see it as efforts in obtaining more grace and mercy (like the "parable of the talents"), beyond the "principles of the doctrines of Christ." Which leads to eternal life.
As Paul put it? "working out your salvation through fear and trembling."
And, as Peter put it? "Making spiritual sacrifices acceptable TO God, BY Jesus Christ."

eternally-gratefull · Nov 11, 2019

Matthew55 said:

Galatians 6:2 refers to "the law of Christ". Do we know what is fully contained in the "law of Christ"?

Read James 1:27 and find out what pure religion is and why it is undefiled before God?

Read Matthew 25:31-46 and find out what it takes to be one of the sheep standing on the right hand of God and in his kingdom?

These scriptures, I feel capture the essence of the gospel and how love is living the commandments, and living the commandments is love all intertwined in iiving the pure religion, undefiled before God, and living the "law of Christ".

What a beautiful life this world would be if we lived like Jesus lived.

We can, if we others more then yourself. Then you will always act in a way which is christlike
no laws needed

Grandpa · Nov 11, 2019

IFOLLOWHIM said:

2 Corinthians 3:7-11
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

There are several misunderstandings in your statement. The very first one is calling the 10 commandments the "moral law".

Then to say the "moral law" is not done away is really just a wish based on poor wording.

Another misunderstanding is assuming that the 10 commandments are the "law of God". They are not.

They are commands from God to Do what He Does. And therefore condemnation and death, because you can't do what God Does.

But, I think there must be misunderstandings in order to attempt to place Christians back under a law that was too grievous and not intended for the Christian Life.

The biggest misunderstanding is that placing Christians back under the 10 commandments SEEMS well intentioned. But it isn't. It is merely a lack of faith in Christ.

wokinluv · Nov 11, 2019

For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? James 4:11-12

the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Romans 8:7

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”
“Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:16-26

Magenta · Nov 11, 2019

Matthew 19:26b

DeighAnn · Nov 11, 2019

Grandpa said:

All you would have to do in believe in the Blood of the Lamb. Then you could leave that Old Covenant of death where it belongs. But if you don't understand what Christ did for us while He walked in the flesh and what He did for us in suffering and death to free us form and what He did for when He rose sending us the Comforter, then all your thinking will remain fixed upon the "condemnation and death" because

THEY COULDN'T DO IT, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT

WE DO. WE ARE NOT LIKE THEM, WE ARE NOT AS THEY WERE

WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. Get into
much more that which remaineth is glorious.

COME TO THE LORD. HAVE YOUR SINS FORGIVEN. BE WASHED CLEAN, FOR WHEN YOU ARE, YOU ARE THROUGH HIS BLOOD WHAT?
How are we made righteous before God? How are we justified? How are our sins forgiven? How are we sanctified? How does salvation come about?

Repent. Change that inner man. Sanctification is a PROCESS. God wants to talk with you along the way. He wants to answers prayers and give Comfort and help and guidance and LIFE. not death and condemnation. That is OLD SCHOOL. Come to the New. Come into the Covenant that Jesus suffered to give us.

Quit telling Gods Children they can "not" WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. IF YOU BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING WITH US, HOW CAN YOU SAY WE CAN'T? THE ONLY WAY WE COULDN'T IS IF WE WERE LIKE THEY WERE, WITHOUT THAT SPIRIT.

Quit trying to bind Gods Children with condemnation and death and failure.

Uplift, encourage, make peace, bring union, not division. Keep up with the thread if you are going to post. Quit bringing us backwards. Help us move forwards.

And here are those commandments

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

1 Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up and as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day and stood up for to read.

Luke 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

NayborBear · Nov 11, 2019

Grandpa said:

Yanno what is "well intentioned", but seriously misses the mark? The motto: "Jez get 'em in Church!"
"Break 'em in GENTLY!"
Which is "where" THIS came from! And how many years before Christ walked on earth?

Ezekiel 13
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

So when THIS happens?
Egadz! The YELLING and SCREAMING that goes on! You'd a thought they were all "dry shaved!"

Ezekiel 13
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

IFOLLOWHIM · Nov 12, 2019

I have decided there are some who love controversy, being argumentative, and antagonistic!

STOP FEEDING THE BEARS!

Caisdf · Nov 23, 2019

posthuman said:

hi @Caisdf welcome to CC!

i don't think any of it should be ignored - tho i presume that's not really what you mean.
in John 5:39 Jesus commands to search the scriptures, explaining that they testify of Him: and in John 17:3 declares that to know Him is eternal life. knowledge of Him is therefore in the law of Moses, because it, and the prophets, and the wisdom & psalms, are testimonies of Him; moreover He commands to find Him in them.
i can't ignore that - 'to whom shall we go?' He is the Word of Life

So the parts about new cloth and old cloth or dietary restrictions, etc....

posthuman · Nov 23, 2019

Caisdf said:

are about Jesus; His person and His work. they're a picture of Christ.
the right context and interpretation of scripture is describing Him - pray for understanding, and look for Him.
these aren't arbitrary, silly & outdated commands in the law. they are shadows of God manifest in the flesh sacrificially laying Himself down in order to save you from destruction and give you life by grace through faith in Him.

there are two general ways to approach scripture:

decide for yourself whether it makes sense based on the best of your ability to comprehend what it's saying, what its purpose and audience is, and whether it seems right
assume that it makes perfect sense, is 100% correct, is God's revelation of Himself, is written for you to read it

if you take option 1 and read a law about not mixing two types of fabric, you're going to have a really hard time understanding why in the world anyone would say such a thing.
if you take option 2 and read that same law you're going to wonder what in the world this has to do with Jesus, go looking for all the other places in scripture that mention mixed types of something, put them all next to each other along with everything you know about the life, death, resurrection, ascension & return of Jesus the Son of God, look into what kind of picture they make together, how they relate to each other, and what they say about who He is and what He has done is doing and will do.

knowledge of Him is eternal life, John 17:3.
1 of these methods edifies and one of them doesn't.
this is, in an abstract sense, exactly the problem when atheists attack scripture: they have no idea what the context of it is. they do not approach the Bible as though it is one unified & homogeneous thing all with the singular purpose of speaking of Christ. that's is why they come away from it thinking it's fantastic nonsense: they don't understand what it is and what it is saying; they don't have knowledge of Him. they do not have, and even what they do have is taken away from them.

Caisdf · Nov 24, 2019

posthuman said:

are about Jesus; His person and His work. they're a picture of Christ.
the right context and interpretation of scripture is describing Him - pray for understanding, and look for Him.
these aren't arbitrary, silly & outdated commands in the law. they are shadows of God manifest in the flesh sacrificially laying Himself down in order to save you from destruction and give you life by grace through faith in Him.

there are two general ways to approach scripture:

decide for yourself whether it makes sense based on the best of your ability to comprehend what it's saying, what its purpose and audience is, and whether it seems right
assume that it makes perfect sense, is 100% correct, is God's revelation of Himself, is written for you to read it

if you take option 1 and read a law about not mixing two types of fabric, you're going to have a really hard time understanding why in the world anyone would say such a thing.
if you take option 2 and read that same law you're going to wonder what in the world this has to do with Jesus, go looking for all the other places in scripture that mention mixed types of something, put them all next to each other along with everything you know about the life, death, resurrection, ascension & return of Jesus the Son of God, look into what kind of picture they make together, how they relate to each other, and what they say about who He is and what He has done is doing and will do.

knowledge of Him is eternal life, John 17:3.
1 of these methods edifies and one of them doesn't.
this is, in an abstract sense, exactly the problem when atheists attack scripture: they have no idea what the context of it is. they do not approach the Bible as though it is one unified & homogeneous thing all with the singular purpose of speaking of Christ. that's is why they come away from it thinking it's fantastic nonsense: they don't understand what it is and what it is saying; they don't have knowledge of Him. they do not have, and even what they do have is taken away from them.

Wasn't saying to ignore the OT. Most of my favorite books are there and it is is the source material for both Christ and the Apostles. However, as Christ said, "The law can be summed up in two commandments: love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, body, and mind and love thy neighbor as thyself."

With those two things in mind I really don't have to worry about shellfish, the proper handling of animals, etc.

DeighAnn · Nov 27, 2019

Caisdf said:

Do you know why you should though? Because the creator of our bodies and the earth created animals to feed us and animals to cleanse the earth. The ones we eat, eat certain foods and digest and discard differently than the "scavengers" God created to cleanse the earth who "store" the pollutions they eat, so that when we eat them, we are eating the pollutions they ate.

And seeing as how our "bodies" become the "temple" if you pollute it and die and God had a work for you, you are no longer available or if you haven't died but are all kinds of sick, all that time spent on your health could have been spent in the Word and He has to heal you to "make" you fit to do His will which you would have been had you followed His food laws in the first place.

Just food for thought.

Dan_473 · Nov 27, 2019

Good ideas! But one thing I notice is that chickens are a clean food, yet they are very much scavengers.

DeighAnn · Nov 27, 2019

Dan_473 said:

Have you any thoughts on that?

TheLearner · Nov 27, 2019

Marcelo said:

If you read the Big Ten, they were given to Israel. Are you an Israelite? I am not. The better question is where did Jesus say we must keep the Big Ten?

DeighAnn · Nov 27, 2019

TheLearner said:

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

Matthew 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Matthew 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Matthew 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

Matthew 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Matthew 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Matthew 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

Matthew 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matthew 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

posthuman · Nov 27, 2019

Caisdf said:

if it's all about Jesus then you don't have to worry. but you'd want to try and figure out how shellfish and properly handling animals are about Christ, because that's why it's written.

garee · Nov 27, 2019

Matthew55 said:

Amen, I would offer...The law of Christ is the law of faith the unseen in respect to Christ's work of faith as a three day labor of love.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (that kills) Nay: but by the law of faith.

Mixed together with the letter of the law which kills . Together as one gospel they provide a perfect or complete law that heals and quickens our soul giving us his understanding . So then in turn we can seek after Him.

Apart from each other they perform nothing.

The pure religion, undefiled before God, that God sets his approval on is interesting in that parable. Widows is what were before our born again experience. . fatherless, no father in heaven.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

A few other verses that seem to support the ministry of believers using the widows and fatherless. The spiritul understanding, aplication..hidden in that parable. (James 1:27)

Psalm 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

Exodus 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.

Exodus 22:24And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

Deuteronomy 10:18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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