I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
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There are two different definitions of the "law of Moses". Often, when Paul speaks of the law of Moses he is speaking about the customs God gave the Hebrews to help them understand the way God wanted them to live such as circumcision, or the food laws. Paul called the law as we think of it as the spirit of the law. Not only Christ but also Paul taught to obey the spirit of the law.
Christ never taught to follow these fleshly laws but Christ did speak of following law not only with our actions but even in our thoughts. However, Christ taught to follow Him and to do that we must include the days of our year that God set aside for us to devote to Him such as Sabbath and Passover.
Hi Marcelo, where does the Apostle Paul tell us that we aren't supposed to obey the Law?
Thanks!
~Deut
Jesus was preaching under the law dispensation, thus, he cannot be telling us that. The question is, which dispensation do you regard yourself under?
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
where in scripture is this "law dispensation" found?
To my understanding, God is eternal and doesn't change. Scripture gives us these principle established at creation and that creation doesn't change according to a year we are living in God's creation.
Hi, Deut! In Romans 6:14 Paul wrote: "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace ".
I agree with you and I regard myself to be under the New Covenant.
OK, so you confirm Jesus never told us to disregard the law of Moses.
While Jesus walked this earth the Law of Moses was fully in force. So why would He have said anything to undermine it? He Himself was fully under the Law.
Following His resurrection, He personally taught the apostles (including Paul). Shortly after that, the Holy Spirit taught the apostles and elders that the Church was to obey just four laws out of the 613 laws of Moses. And that settled the issue.
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; [1] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and [2] from blood, and [3] from things strangled, and [4] from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:28,29)
Also the Ten Commandments were never rescinded as we can see from the Law of Christ and the New Covenant. See Hebrews 8.
Thanks, Nehemiah! The purpose of this thread is to show that Jesus and Paul didn't preach the exact same thing as most, if not all, traditional churches teach.
No, Christ did not teach that.
Hi again Marcelo, I guess the thing we need to figure out is what did Paul mean when he said that Christians are no longer, "under the law"? Surely he could not have meant that it was ok for Christians to worship other "gods", or murder, or steal, etc., right, so what do you think he was talking about?
Thanks
~Deut
Good thread!
The Pharisees had gathered together hundreds of Laws from various places. Many denominations are adding their own, even today. Jesus referenced the 10 Commandments when He summarized them with just two. Jesus is really more interested in your heart attitude. Have you accepted your neediness? Have you acknowledged what He did for you on the Cross as full payment? Have asked Him to be Lord of your life?
The reason we still need to preach things like the 10 Commands is that they reveal our sin nature. Many stories in the OT do the same. They convict the sinner, just like the Spirit does.
Obviously, we still need to obey the 10 Commandments. Some of them are written into the Law of the Land. But if a spirit of rebellion is in our hearts, obedience to them will profit nothing. If we have fully surrendered to Him, then those laws have been superceded by a burning desire for us to do the will of our Father daily. We will automatically follow them out of love, and not out of obligation.
The Pharisees had gathered together hundreds of Laws from various places. Many denominations are adding their own, even today. Jesus referenced the 10 Commandments when He summarized them with just two. Jesus is really more interested in your heart attitude. Have you accepted your neediness? Have you acknowledged what He did for you on the Cross as full payment? Have asked Him to be Lord of your life?
The reason we still need to preach things like the 10 Commands is that they reveal our sin nature. Many stories in the OT do the same. They convict the sinner, just like the Spirit does.
Obviously, we still need to obey the 10 Commandments. Some of them are written into the Law of the Land. But if a spirit of rebellion is in our hearts, obedience to them will profit nothing. If we have fully surrendered to Him, then those laws have been superceded by a burning desire for us to do the will of our Father daily. We will automatically follow them out of love, and not out of obligation.
Oh, I thought you were trying to point out that Jesus and Paul taught different things
That's what your OP sounded like to me, anyway (just FYI).For what it's worth, I believe that Jesus and Paul sounded pretty similar concerning the way of salvation. For instance:
John 5
24 He who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Romans 10
9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
~Deut
Hi again Marcelo, I guess the thing we need to figure out is what did Paul mean when he said that Christians are no longer, "under the law"? Surely he could not have meant that it was ok for Christians to worship other "gods", or murder, or steal, etc., right, so what do you think he was talking about?
Thanks
Hi again, Deut!
The New Testament prohibits all these things (worship of someone or something other than God as if it were God; murder; stealing; etc), so that we don't need to refer to the law of Moses.
When the Holy Spirit becomes our guide, we won't need to refer to a long to-do list anymore. PTL!
Yeah, you're right, the verses above sound similar, but when asked by the young rich ruler Jesus said: "Keep the commandments". Paul however said that salvation was by grace through faith.
Well, it's bedtime for me. I'll be back tomorrow if God is willing.
The Young Rich Ruler was not a healthy and mature believer. He had to go back to the old school house. He was still trying to pull himself up by his own bootstraps. Jesus had to show him the futility of this foolish notion. Jesus was saying "If you think you can earn your own salvation by doing the impossible, then go ahead and try." Jesus knew that one cannot keep the commandments perfectly. He was bringing this young man to his knees of humility.
JESUS was going to fulfill all the law every dot and tittle because HE IS LOVE and HE had mercy on us and man born with Adam's seed would come short of the glory of GOD,JESUS bridged the gap so that It would be possible for ANYone who believes In HIM should not perish but have EverLasting Life BUT some believe that some sins they commit are not as bad as other sins In mans eye AND GODs eye.
Remember the rich young ruler that asked JESUS good master what must I do to Inherit Eternal Life and JESUS told him why do you call me good,there Is only one that Is good and that Is GOD.
Since the rich young ruler chose to look at the outward appearance of JESUS as a priest rather than GOD In CHRIST,JESUS sent him back to the law and we know that he would come short of the glory of GOD trying to keep the law.
+++
Here are some verses that pertain to the question you asked.
Matthew 23:1-3
King James Version
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
WAhen we come to know Jesus as our Savior and God, our new person recognizes any and all of the commandments, statutes and laws which build together tomake love. We observe them in our new character given us by the Father, and not one of them is destroyed, thought the ceremonial, food, scrificial preisthood lawas are no longer as they were with the earthly Israel. We now are of the eternal.