My point is we live far below what is available to us.A wise man once said, and I borrow it from time to time, “What we are intended to be, we have not yet become”.
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Most?
Are you rejecting what I said about ultimately being conformed to His likeness, or are we agreeing in this sense that what we will be will be the best?
Even if we access fully what we have now it is only a deposit which is limited and can also be grieved and extinguished.
I do agree with this BTW. And IMO it's a real problem for the Body at this time.
What we will be and experience is beyond compare. But what we have available now far surpasses what was available to Adam before sin.
The evidence that what is available is not being apprehended is that people believe Adam's pre-fall estate surpasses what is available now. If people were truly walking in the Spirit and tabernacling with God, I don't believe this would be their conclusion.
Some say Adam was perfect, which I do not agree with.
Adam was of the natural world. For that reason alone, it should be no surprise to any that he sinned. We are perfected in Christ.
I find it interesting that many would conclude this given that even physically God created man so dependent on Himself. We need oxygen every 3 minutes, water every 3 days, and food every 30 days at a minimum. If we are so dependent for physical life, I wonder what this might teach about spiritual life.
Again, what we have now is a portion designed to take us to a condition in fleshly bodies that was originally foreign to Adam I. Thus, I'm not sure there's a need to compare the two.
I truly wonder and have done so for a long time what the ultimate condition for us is in these bodies. I've at times told people not to tell me I can't be perfect because God commands me to be perfect, God defines what He means by perfect, there are Scriptures (Hebrews) that speak of the perfecting of the conscience under the Great high Priesthood of Jesus Christ, and there are Scriptures like Paul's in Philippians that speak of the mature (aka perfect) seeking perfection which he equates to arriving at the resurrection. He additionally says that those without this mindset are enemies of the cross of Christ, which tells me that the cross was for much, much more than most seem to be pursuing.
The sad thing to me is to hear so many say we can't be what God commands us to be and Jesus Christ died to give us the ability to become. We have way too much admixture of human viewpoint thinking imposing on what His Word says.
So, again, with a few adjustments, I don't think you and I are too far apart in what is available to us. And, as I've essentially said, it will be God's best for His Children and the siblings of our perfected first born brother and Lord to whose likeness we are being conformed. But Heb5 says He had to learn obedience to get there. So here we are...
Doesn't it in part teach us how vastly important is the spiritual food He provides in Christ in Spirit - how His words are Spirit and are Life? How we eat and drink from Him?
As this body ages and for a long time now, I've understood and continue to understand better, that the spirit in Christ in Spirit is where the true joy and reality of Life is. A good material meal is still enjoyable but pales in comparison to how fulfilling is a Spiritual meal that provides more understanding of Him and what He has in store for us.
That's certainly part of it. There is also the immediacy and constancy of the need.
God cannot sin because God is all-wise and all-knowing. An all knowing and wise person will not choose to sin, because to do so would be foolish. Man sins because his knowledge and understanding are limited. He needs to learn that the consequences of selfishness will be destructive to himself and others.
You are fallaciously presupposing that man being "not good" means man is 100% evil and therefore incapable of good". "Not good" means not 100% good, like an buyer considers an apple "not good" if it is flawed; but it may still have many good parts that can produce good juice when squeezed.
There is not one perfectly wise human, therefore there is no human, who relies at times on their own wisdom, who always does good, not one. There is no human, who relies at times on their own wisdom, who is always righteous, not one. And yet, evil people, from their good parts, can do good. "You who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children." Mt. 7:11
God is all-wise, and our knowledge is limited, as was Adam's. For this reason, yes, we need God's guidance to avoid sin. But God did not abandon Adam when Adam abandoned God long enough to make a foolish decision and fall into sin. God remained accessible to Adam, if Adam would trust in God's mercy and grace sufficiently to give up his reluctance to approach God because of his feelings of guilt and shame. The old testament mentions many who trusted in God's grace despite their sin, and who found that God was still seeking friendship with men.
I would say that God is holy because He is wise. I would not say that God is wise because He is Holy. Wisdom precedes holiness. One is holy because one does not sin, and if one is wise, one does not sin because to sin would be foolish. Being wise makes one averse to sin, and an aversion to sin is what makes one holy.
I don't think it makes sense to say that one is wise because one is holy, and if one is holy one does not sin because to sin would be unholy. I don't think it makes sense to say that being holy makes one averse to sin, and an aversion to sin is what makes one wise.
Is a boy who is averse to stealing because he got caught once before and punished, is not necessarily wise. But a boy who is wise will be averse to stealing.
I would not say God refrains from sin because He is holy. I would say God is holy because he refrains from sin because He is wise..
Nothing wrong with what you have stated, but God has done far more than what you have stated. He has made it possible for us to walk moment by moment with Him and have Christ live in and through us. This is absolute dependence. Some would call it absolute surrender.
I was not aware that Adam was "born of a woman". Do you think pre-fall Adam was less perfect than Christians?.
That Adam's sinless estate was preferable to the believer's current estate?
I believe what is available for believers far exceeds Adam's pristine estate when it is accessed.
So, do you believe that if Adam had not sinned, God would never have made available to Him what he has made available to repentant sinners?