Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Okm so we can agree that adam was given choice, and I would add that choice might've been the "kink" in the armor of God's plan for Him.. That is, giving man free will that is bound to make wrong choices. But wait, God makes no mistake, and His gifts are irrevocable so if God gave man free will there is good reason He wanted man to have it and so He would not take it away. Rather, in my perspective, He made it even more precious with Christ.
Would you also say God gave man life and since life is a gift and God's gifts are irrevocable then all men must live forever?
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Faith comes by hearing, so faith follows hearing. So, if we must believe then I'm supposing that hearing and believing are correlated as opposed to 'having ears but not hearing (that is, hearing but not listening) and "having eyes but not seeing (that is, looking but not seeing), which leads to faith (which is a faith that is the Holy Spirit saying, "Amen" with your spirit.
Jesus said it a little differently. Hearing isn't hearing but not listening, but rather hearing but not understanding, and seeing isn't seeing but not looking but seeing and not understanding the significance and meaning of what they see. In other words, the true meaning is lost to them.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Would you also say God gave man life and since life is a gift and God's gifts are irrevocable then all men must live forever?
It just came to mind as I was preparing a cup of coffee to assuage this migraine developing, in regard to the making the choice with Christ more precious, Adam is told that if he ate, in dying you will die which alludes to the second death. And I'm not sure dying, twice which seems to imply a complete death, is actually a revocation of a gift or a (what's the other fancy word that alludes to surrendering something over?".
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Jesus said it a little differently. Hearing isn't hearing but not listening, but rather hearing but not understanding, and seeing isn't seeing but not looking but seeing and not understanding the significance and meaning of what they see. In other words, the true meaning is lost to them.
In communications, I believe it is termed as "receiving."
 

BillyBob

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Dec 20, 2023
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Sheesh, so I don't get a BillyBob diploma?
Since you refuse to answer, I stand by my earlier post.
Adam was given the ability to choose either good or evil. This ability was lost during the fall. Only the Spirit can restore this ability within fallen man.
 

BillyBob

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Dec 20, 2023
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Well, thanks for asking. I have kind of a different take on that verse and John 3:16 too than most do. I posted it some time
ago but it wasn't really recognized, however, for me, in viewing it in this way, it seems to reconcile everything pretty well.
Now don't laugh when I say it, (lol that means you Cameron143), but I believe there are two worlds in view: 1) this current world which is to be destroyed, and 2) the world to come which will be eternal, and is, as I understand it, to be comprised of the saved.
Were it not so, it would mean that either God can't destroy that which He hates nor save that which He loves.
The world in 1John 2:2 and John 3:16, is the world to come, not this current world. That is the world which Jesus saved by
the forgiveness of sin.
I've found generally that the Bible can use the same name for the earthly for the spiritual, so this is where the "no verse of
prophecy is of any private interpretation" and "comparing the spiritual with the spiritual" comes it to play to determine
which one is in view. Okay, you can laugh now, Cameron143.
Hope this helps
Thank you! You have thought this out much deeper than I have. It's a lot to take in. I'm not laughing, but it will take some thought on my part. (y)(y)
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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It just came to mind as I was preparing a cup of coffee to assuage this migraine developing, in regard to the making the choice with Christ more precious, Adam is told that if he ate, in dying you will die which alludes to the second death. And I'm not sure dying, twice which seems to imply a complete death, is actually a revocation of a gift or a (what's the other fancy word that alludes to surrendering something over?".
The phrase God's gifts are irrevocable is paired with His call in Romans 11:29 ~ For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. Any who, Adam was of the natural world. I cannot count the number of times I have seen people say Adam was perfect. Eh? If Adam was perfect, would he have sinned? I don't think so. God called His handiwork good a number of times, and then very good after Eve was made. I don't know how free Adam's will was, and I do not believe slaves to sin have a will that is free either. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Since you refuse to answer, I stand by my earlier post.
Adam was given the ability to choose either good or evil. This ability was lost during the fall. Only the Spirit can restore this ability within fallen man.
I answered, it's just that you didn't accept it. But I don't begrudge you that freedom. I only request you ask yourself why actually believe something is so rather than using that particular belief as a "cookie cutter" to compare other perspectives against. Otherwise, you'll only see other cookie cutters as not the same as yours. But sometimes what looks like a star cookie cutter might actually turn out be a sunflower cookie cutter. Or an egg might actually be an egg. It's okay to think beyond what a teacher has shown you. I mean, I still love my kindergarten teacher for what she taught me.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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The phrase God's gifts are irrevocable is paired with His call in Romans 11:29 ~ For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. Any who, Adam was of the natural world. I cannot count the number of times I have seen people say Adam was perfect. Eh? If Adam was perfect, would he have sinned? I don't think so. God called His handiwork good a number of times, and then very good after Eve was made. I don't know how free Adam's will was, and I do not believe slaves to sin have a will that is free either. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world.
All of that which God has to offer, all gifts from Him, is in waiting (in store) for anyone that asks. But too many are happy with the world's offerings, which is junk in comparison.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Both of you are skirting the question! I'll make it simple, it is a yes or no answer.
no its not. The question you purpose is TRICK ONE OR lacks context Biblically it can never be just yes or no. To you maybe. That is opinionated
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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That is in regard to the prophet/Scripture writer, not us readers.
Disagree but in my haste, I slightly mis-quoted the verse, however, I do not believe it fundamentally changed its meaning.
This is directly from the Bible. I don't see where any restriction or limitation explicitly or implicitly placed upon whom the
verse was intended to be for. It is a statement intended for all who read it. After all, it was written by God, not man, and as such, it was an instruction to man regarding how the Bible is to be approached in order to find its message.

[2Pe 1:19-20 KJV]
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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Where did He say that?

Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.” Mark 4:9

If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear. Mark 4:23

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

Since you did not/would not answer my other question, I looked it up.

A divine appointment is when God arranges someone to witness or provide for another person at the appropriate moment.
It is understood to be an important event or meeting predetermined by divine guidance or ordination for a particular reason.
How can you reject Jesus without knowing what He said?

16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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God creates the divine appointment.
How many times have you met someone and chose not to be a witness to them?
You control whether the Divine Appointment ever happens.
This doctrine God made me be saved is laughable.
Why didn't God open your mouth to be a Witness whenever you chose not to be one but had the opportunity to be one?
We're all guilty.
But we control many times whether the Divine Appointment happens or not.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Thank you! You have thought this out much deeper than I have. It's a lot to take in. I'm not laughing, but it will take some thought on my part. (y)(y)
Thank you BillyBob, I really appreciate your comment. At minimum, I hope it at least opens up another line of reasoning
normally not associated with those verses. Please keep me updated as to your thoughts on it, as we can all learn from each other.

Roger