Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[rogerg]

my premise is that a “spiritual israel” is not supported by scripture.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Rev 21:2 KJV]
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[tylerbones1313]

I'll find you scripture please wait

my premise is that a “spiritual israel” is not supported by scripture. i was raised in the church and held to the doctrine of “spiritual israel” for over 3 decades of my life, i can admit that although i was well versed in the new testament, i never studied the old testament rigorously with the exception of psalms and proverbs of which i was well acquainted. it wasn’t until i was 36 that i read the scripture cover to cover and i continued to do so for 3 years. as i studied intensively i started to have questions that i never had before and my eyes started to see things that were not visible in my first 35 years of following christ. The idea of a “ spiritual israel” is not only scriptural but it has its roots in gnostism and new age doctrine. in fact, when rome adopted christianity in the 3rd century, they did soo as a means to spread their influence further and as a mechanism to wield power over the citizenry. the churches that the disciples and paul built resisted rome and it wasn’t until the 6th century that were absorbed by the roman church. it was romes thirst for power and influence that twisted church doctrine into an all inclusive universalist church. the same spirit that worked through rome then is still perverting doctrine today and you see it with openly gay clergy and authorizing gay marriages. the book of revelation is very clear about this perversion and it started just 300 years after christ ascended to the right hand of the father.

Romans 11

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Israel will always be God's chosen people and will never change. They are going to be the ones in charge of God's future government.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

There will always be a remnant of his people set aside for the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Israel as a Nation had their chance for Grace, but the majority of the Nation refused or refuses Christ. But there is a remnant reserved. They are blind to the truth for now. Salvation has turned to the Gentiles and Jewish people who truly repent.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

wild olive tree - Gentiles grafted in among them (Natural Branch) - Israel

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Israel is the natural branch by birthright. We are Spiritual Israel by Faith.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Those Jewish people who no longer wish to live in unbelief, wants they know, God is able to bring them again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

"Fulness of the Gentiles" is a future event that hasn't happened yet. They will remain blind in part until then and not before.

 

[Cameron143]

my premise is that a “spiritual israel” is not supported by scripture. i was raised in the church and held to the doctrine of “spiritual israel” for over 3 decades of my life, i can admit that although i was well versed in the new testament, i never studied the old testament rigorously with the exception of psalms and proverbs of which i was well acquainted. it wasn’t until i was 36 that i read the scripture cover to cover and i continued to do so for 3 years. as i studied intensively i started to have questions that i never had before and my eyes started to see things that were not visible in my first 35 years of following christ. The idea of a “ spiritual israel” is not only scriptural but it has its roots in gnostism and new age doctrine. in fact, when rome adopted christianity in the 3rd century, they did soo as a means to spread their influence further and as a mechanism to wield power over the citizenry. the churches that the disciples and paul built resisted rome and it wasn’t until the 6th century that were absorbed by the roman church. it was romes thirst for power and influence that twisted church doctrine into an all inclusive universalist church. the same spirit that worked through rome then is still perverting doctrine today and you see it with openly gay clergy and authorizing gay marriages. the book of revelation is very clear about this perversion and it started just 300 years after christ ascended to the right hand of the father.

for the record, i am always learning and relearning as i study scripture and i came to this forum so that i could find fellow believers to learn from and share perspective with, i am willing to lay out the scriptural framework to defend my position regarding “spiritual israel” if you are interested. praise Yahweh

So how would you explain Paul saying that Israel consisted of those who were those who were thus inwardly?

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

So how would you explain Paul saying that Israel consisted of those who were those who were thus inwardly?

pauls ministry was to the scattered tribes of the northern kingdom, obviously these are all israelites who were divorced by yahweh, taken away blind to sit in darkness. paul was making the distinction between the works of the law and the law that was written in their hearts. when reading the new testament epistles its important to read in context of who the audience was. jesus tasked paul to go only to the scattered israelites of the dispersions and that is where he went. that is why i had quoted paul in Acts 26 when he stood before herod agrippa. praise Yahweh

 

[Cameron143]

pauls ministry was to the scattered tribes of the northern kingdom, obviously these are all israelites who were divorced by yahweh, taken away blind to sit in darkness. paul was making the distinction between the works of the law and the law that was written in their hearts. when reading the new testament epistles its important to read in context of who the audience was. jesus tasked paul to go only to the scattered israelites of the dispersions and that is where he went. that is why i had quoted paul in Acts 26 when he stood before herod agrippa. praise Yahweh

Jews were Gentiles?

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Rev 21:2 KJV]
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

[Rev 21:2 KJV]
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

i’m going to respond, i need to grab some scripture first 😉

 

[rogerg]

i’m going to respond, i need to grab some scripture first 😉

Okay, no problem - was just pointing that out since you said you thought there is no scriptural support - it was just an FYI on my part.
No need to reply unless you want to, but up to you

 

[blueluna5]

God doesn't hate any part of His creation to say so is blasphemy. If you feel condemnation accept to convicting power of God and pray. God hates sometimes the decisions we make but would never hate us, even if the choices we made sent us to Hell. He may be Absolute Love but if we don't freely accept it, He is not to blame on where we end up!!

Maybe they're not his creation? 🤔 perhaps you don't remember Noah? Noah may have been the only true human bloodline but either way....God regretted making man during this time. So in essence he hated them.

Do you know that fallen angels and humans bred creating the nephilim? So now the question is... are the nephilim still around and if so how can you tell? In Noah's day we are told they had wickedness on their minds all day long, and in fact tried to rape the male angels.

The Bible is a book that contains religion, but it's not about religion. It's about a kingdom... the kingdom of heaven. There are soldiers on the side of the kingdom of heaven.... and on the side of h***. There are many in the middle like sheep in the slaughter who are just followers.

So Jesus says "forgive them for they know not what they do." The Pharisees on the other hand knew exactly what they were doing and were looking for a way to kill Jesus. The Pharisees were not on the side of God and were called "children of the devil." I'm not exactly sure how God chooses who he loves and hates, but everyone in the Bible he hated either killed or wanted to kill. So I imagine murder is a big part of it. But David was fine. 😆

So I chalk it up to God decides who he loves and hates. Although God is love, he is also justice. Therefore he hates, which is said over and over. But people just don't want to see it.

"There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers."

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

Romans 11

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Israel will always be God's chosen people and will never change. They are going to be the ones in charge of God's future government.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

There will always be a remnant of his people set aside for the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Israel as a Nation had their chance for Grace, but the majority of the Nation refused or refuses Christ. But there is a remnant reserved. They are blind to the truth for now. Salvation has turned to the Gentiles and Jewish people who truly repent.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

wild olive tree - Gentiles grafted in among them (Natural Branch) - Israel

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Israel is the natural branch by birthright. We are Spiritual Israel by Faith.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Those Jewish people who no longer wish to live in unbelief, wants they know, God is able to bring them again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

"Fulness of the Gentiles" is a future event that hasn't happened yet. They will remain blind in part until then and not before.

im let me start with this:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

"Fulness of the Gentiles" is a future event that hasn't happened yet. They will remain blind in part until then and not before.

the judaizers who rejected paul in judea and over and over sought to kill him is the blindness that in part is happened to israel.
there were also many who did accept christ in judea and these were those who fled as jesus instructed them when the roman army surrounded the temple for a year.
the fullness of the nations was the timing of christ coming down, for those nations were the israelites who were cast off by yahweh yet in their dispersion yahweh kept his hand on them despite their descent into paganism and they became the many nations that were promised to abraham. jesus did not send his disciples to the nations but instead preached all throughout judea to the tribes of bejamin, levi and judah these were the house of judah which had not been divorced by yahweh as he did to the house of israel but he did allow babylon to take them away for 70 years as punishment for their harlotry.
jesus refrained from going to the nations because he had yet to give his life as the propitiation for the sins of israel yet after he was raised and ascended he chose paul to be the one who was to take the gospel to the nations, the nations promised to abraham and his seed.

jeremiah 3:1,6-8
1“Ifa a man divorces his wife
and she goes from him
and becomes another man’s wife,
will he return to her?

6The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: “Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the whore? 7And I thought, ‘After she has done all this she will return to me,’ but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce.

jeremiah 31:10,11
10“Hear the word of the LORD, O nations,
and declare it in the coastlands far away;
say, ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
and will keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock.’
11For the LORD has ransomed Jacob
and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him.

Amos 9:8,9
8Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom,
and I will destroy it from the surface of the ground,
except that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob,”
declares the LORD.
9“For behold, I will command,
and shake the house of Israel among all the nations
as one shakes with a sieve,
but no pebble shall fall to the earth.

Hosea 1:10,11
10“Yet the number of the children of Israel
Shall be as the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered.
And it shall come to pass
In the place where it was said to them,
‘You are [e]not My people,’
There it shall be said to them,
‘You are sons of the living God.’
11Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel
Shall be gathered together,
And appoint for themselves one head;
And they shall come up out of the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel!

Paul quotes Hosea concerning Jews and the Israelites of the dispersion (house of israel)

Romans 9:22-26
22What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As He says also in Hosea:
“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26“And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

Paul quotes this as fulfillment to the Romans who were Israelites of the dispersion, it’s soo beautiful seeing it fulfilled that those who yahweh divorced and casted off He has come back for them

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

Romans 11

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Israel will always be God's chosen people and will never change. They are going to be the ones in charge of God's future government.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

There will always be a remnant of his people set aside for the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Israel as a Nation had their chance for Grace, but the majority of the Nation refused or refuses Christ. But there is a remnant reserved. They are blind to the truth for now. Salvation has turned to the Gentiles and Jewish people who truly repent.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

wild olive tree - Gentiles grafted in among them (Natural Branch) - Israel

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Israel is the natural branch by birthright. We are Spiritual Israel by Faith.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Those Jewish people who no longer wish to live in unbelief, wants they know, God is able to bring them again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

"Fulness of the Gentiles" is a future event that hasn't happened yet. They will remain blind in part until then and not before.

i accidentally hit the post button 🤦 and i wasnt finished… i know i only responded to the very end of your post but i am going to respond to all the points you made as soon as i can.. what i was trying to convey is that Paul took the gospel to the Israelites who became the many nations promised to abraham in their dispersions but the timing through divinity was the fulness of the nations, the mystery of divorced israel through christ passion and resurrection was being reconciled back to him and i want to point out that paul spoke the language of the prophets and most people miss it cuz they are not familiar with the books of the prophets and that is literally what yahweh spoke beforehand and unto his majesty and glory was manifested in christ

ok i’m going to take s break and then ill get back to what you originally posted from Romans .praise Yahweh

 

[Esther269]

for the Unjust/Nonelect/Unsaved whose names are not written in The Book of Life?

Jesus paid the ultimate price for the redemption of ALL mankind once for all to be given the chance of eternal life through His Sacrifice. This is for everyone regardless of color, creed or religious preference and inclination. The invitation of Salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ is available to ALL who are willing to accept and receive it.

Revelation 21:27
There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb

 

[tylerbones1313]

Maybe they're not his creation? 🤔 perhaps you don't remember Noah? Noah may have been the only true human bloodline but either way....God regretted making man during this time. So in essence he hated them.

Do you know that fallen angels and humans bred creating the nephilim? So now the question is... are the nephilim still around and if so how can you tell? In Noah's day we are told they had wickedness on their minds all day long, and in fact tried to rape the male angels.

The Bible is a book that contains religion, but it's not about religion. It's about a kingdom... the kingdom of heaven. There are soldiers on the side of the kingdom of heaven.... and on the side of h***. There are many in the middle like sheep in the slaughter who are just followers.

So Jesus says "forgive them for they know not what they do." The Pharisees on the other hand knew exactly what they were doing and were looking for a way to kill Jesus. The Pharisees were not on the side of God and were called "children of the devil." I'm not exactly sure how God chooses who he loves and hates, but everyone in the Bible he hated either killed or wanted to kill. So I imagine murder is a big part of it. But David was fine. 😆

So I chalk it up to God decides who he loves and hates. Although God is love, he is also justice. Therefore he hates, which is said over and over. But people just don't want to see it.

"There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers."

Here is something else to think about:

Understanding how "hate" is used in the Bible requires careful consideration of context and the original languages. Here's a breakdown of the different meanings of "hate" as it relates to God:

1. Strong Dislike for Sin and Evil:

• Proverbs 6:16-19: Lists actions and attitudes God detests, like "hands that shed innocent blood" and "a heart that devises wicked schemes". This highlights His opposition to sin and its destructive consequences.
• Psalm 5:5: "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." This verse emphasizes God's holiness and His intolerance of anything contrary to His character.

1. Relative Preference:

• Genesis 29:31: "And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb..." Here, "hated" means "loved less" in comparison to her sister, Rachel.
• Luke 14:26: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." This strong language illustrates that love for Jesus must be supreme.

1. Judgment and Consequence for Sin:

• Romans 9:13: "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." This refers to God's sovereign choice to bless Jacob's lineage, not condemnation of Esau as an individual. It highlights God's justice and the consequences of persistent rebellion.

Important Considerations:

• God's love and hate are not like human emotions. They stem from His perfect character.
• God's "hate" is primarily directed towards sin, not individuals. Even in judgment, there's an aspect of mercy and a desire for repentance.
• Passages about God's hatred should be understood in the broader context of His love, forgiveness, and desire for all to be saved.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

Jews were Gentiles?

gentile is a mistranslation from the greek ethnos which is translated nations

what is curious to mention about the word gentile is that it comes from the latin gentilis

gentilis
-of the same house or family/tribe or race
The Latin Vulgate was a late 4th century latin translation of the bible just over 300 years since pauls ministry and where today we see the english word gentile the Latin Vulgate translated it gentilis which clearly shows that they understood the nations paul took the gospel were of the same race/family/tribe, this makes perfect sense considering those nations were all the israelites of the dispersions who had fulfilled the promise made to Abraham that his seed would become many nations.

when the word Jews is used it was translated from judean, this is confusing since it can describe a person geographically, it can describe one who is of the tribe benjamin, levi or judah or it describes the Edomites who were forced to convert to judaism during the reign of king john hyrcanus from 135-105bc
ironically this was the only recorded time in israel history of forced conversion and these are those who jesus called a race of vipers and subsequently they were those of the house of esau who had jesus crucified but they had to be there in the seats of power (king herod, herod agrippa, they usurped the priests, pharisees and sadducces) yahweh was in control the whole time putting the pieces in place as the edomites are those who say they are jews but do lie as they are the synagauge of satan.

The Jew - Gentile mistranslations are courtesy of the scofield bible written by cyrus scofield in 1909 and since then most of our bibles have been changed in this way causing confusion amongst believers and this was done on purpose, a true working of the spirit of antichrist and part of a scheme to deceive the christians of america. i would encourage everybody to research cyrus scofield, john j ingalls, j.n. darby, the secret six of boston, fatherhood of god-brotherhood of man theology, the brethren movement, lotus club of new york city,

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me”
Hosea 4:6
Praise Yahweh

 

[Cameron143]

gentile is a mistranslation from the greek ethnos which is translated nations

what is curious to mention about the word gentile is that it comes from the latin gentilis

gentilis
-of the same house or family/tribe or race
The Latin Vulgate was a late 4th century latin translation of the bible just over 300 years since pauls ministry and where today we see the english word gentile the Latin Vulgate translated it gentilis which clearly shows that they understood the nations paul took the gospel were of the same race/family/tribe, this makes perfect sense considering those nations were all the israelites of the dispersions who had fulfilled the promise made to Abraham that his seed would become many nations.

when the word Jews is used it was translated from judean, this is confusing since it can describe a person geographically, it can describe one who is of the tribe benjamin, levi or judah or it describes the Edomites who were forced to convert to judaism during the reign of king john hyrcanus from 135-105bc
ironically this was the only recorded time in israel history of forced conversion and these are those who jesus called a race of vipers and subsequently they were those of the house of esau who had jesus crucified but they had to be there in the seats of power (king herod, herod agrippa, they usurped the priests, pharisees and sadducces) yahweh was in control the whole time putting the pieces in place as the edomites are those who say they are jews but do lie as they are the synagauge of satan.

The Jew - Gentile mistranslations are courtesy of the scofield bible written by cyrus scofield in 1909 and since then most of our bibles have been changed in this way causing confusion amongst believers and this was done on purpose, a true working of the spirit of antichrist and part of a scheme to deceive the christians of america. i would encourage everybody to research cyrus scofield, john j ingalls, j.n. darby, the secret six of boston, fatherhood of god-brotherhood of man theology, the brethren movement, lotus club of new york city,

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me”
Hosea 4:6
Praise Yahweh

Samaritans were Jews?

 

[brightfame52]

False they're hated by God as the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5

This verse from Psalm 5:5 can be misinterpreted if taken out of context. While it does say "thou hatest all workers of iniquity," it's crucial to understand that the concept of "hate" in this context doesn't necessarily equate to the modern understanding of the word.

Here's a breakdown of the verse:

• "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:" This line doesn't refer to general intelligence, but rather to moral foolishness. It describes those who reject God's will and choose to live a life contrary to His teachings.
• "Thou hatest all workers of iniquity:" Here, "hate" shouldn't be interpreted as God harboring negative emotions like humans do. Instead, it signifies God's complete opposition to sin and evil. He cannot condone or approve of actions that go against His holy nature.

Therefore, the verse emphasizes that God doesn't tolerate evil and wickedness, not that he hates individuals.

It's important to consider other verses in the Bible for a complete understanding. Here are some examples:

• John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This verse highlights God's immense love for humanity.
• Ezekiel 18:23: "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked? saith the Lord GOD: but rather that he should return from his ways, and live?" This further clarifies that God desires for people to turn away from sin and lead a righteous life.

In conclusion, Psalm 5:5 doesn't state that God hates people. It emphasizes his condemnation of wickedness and sin, while other verses emphasize his love for humanity. It's important to read and understand biblical passages in their broader context and consider the nuances of language used in different translations.

My Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God, which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all. (This signature is in general and not pointing fingers at anyone at anytime. God Bless.)
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Some sinners are hated by God and not loved

 

[brightfame52]

God doesn't hate any part of His creation to say so is blasphemy. If you feel condemnation accept to convicting power of God and pray. God hates sometimes the decisions we make but would never hate us, even if the choices we made sent us to Hell. He may be Absolute Love but if we don't freely accept it, He is not to blame on where we end up!!

God hated the workers of iniquity also called the vessels of wrath who He made to fit them for destruction Rom 9

 

[tylerbones1313]

These Scriptures were brought back to my memory from another member and I wanted to share this info here.

Rom. 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Malachi 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Here's a breakdown of the meaning and context of Romans 9:13, where Paul quotes from Malachi 1:2-3:

The Meaning of "Hate"

• It doesn't refer to emotional hatred as humans understand it.
• In this context, "hate" means "loved less" or "chose not to bless" compared to Jacob.
• God's love and hate are rooted in His perfect nature and His sovereign choices.

The Context of Election

• Paul is addressing the question of God's sovereignty in choosing Israel throughout history.
• His primary point is that God's faithfulness isn't tied to ethnicity. He has the right to choose whom to bless for His purposes.
• This verse illustrates God's sovereign choice, even before Jacob and Esau were born (Romans 9:11), to establish His lineage through Jacob, not through Esau.

Important Considerations:

• This doesn't mean Esau was doomed to damnation. It focuses on God's choice for His lineage, not individual salvation.
• God's "hatred" stems from His perfect justice and opposition to any influence that might corrupt Israel's special role in His plan.
• This shouldn't be interpreted as God being arbitrary or actively malicious towards Esau.

Theological Implications

This verse raises complex questions about:

• God's Sovereignty: God has the ultimate right to choose who fulfills His purposes.
• Free Will: How does God's sovereignty interact with human choices?
• Predestination: Does God predetermine some for salvation and others for damnation?

It's important to remember:

• This verse should be understood within the context of God's overall plan and character of love, justice, and mercy.

 

[MikeIsraelite72]

God hated the workers of iniquity also called the vessels of wrath who He made to fit them for destruction Rom 9

Correct 😉 Paul differentiated between the seed that came through jacob, the seed of promise who are the children of israel, the vessels of mercy and the children of esau who were the edomites that christ singled out as the race of vipers who the blood of all the prophets from righteous abel to zacharius was ascribed to them and their seed, the vessels of destruction

Obidiah 1:15-18
15“For the day of the Lord upon all the nations is near;
As you have done, it shall be done to you;
Your [g]reprisal shall return upon your own head.
16For as you drank on My holy mountain,
So shall all the nations drink continually;
Yes, they shall drink, and swallow,
And they shall be as though they had never been.
Israel’s Final Triumph
17“But on Mount Zion there shall be [h]deliverance,
And there shall be holiness;
The house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
18The house of Jacob shall be a fire,
And the house of Joseph a flame;
But the house of Esau shall be stubble;
They shall kindle them and devour them,
And no survivor shall remain of the house of Esau,”
For the Lord has spoken.

Matthew 23:29-36
“29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and you say ‘If we were in the days of our fathers, we would not have been their partners in the blood of the prophets!' 31 Thusly you bear witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets, 32 and you shall fulfill the measure of your fathers! 33 Serpents! Race of vipers! How could you escape from the judgment of Gehenna?

“34 For this reason, behold! I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes. Some of them you shall kill and crucify, and some of them you shall flog in your assembly halls and persecute from city to city! 35 Thusly should come upon you all the righteous blood poured out upon the earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharios who had been murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this race!

Consequently, it was these children of Esau who had had been forcibly converted to judaism by king john hyrcanus in 135-105bc who had seized power from king herod to the priesthood in judea, wicked pharisees and saduccees who were responsible for the crucifying of our King. Upon the return of the King of Kings will obidiah 1:18 be fulfilled in the power and the glory thereof.

Genesis 25:23
23And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the otherpeople; and the elder shall serve the younger.

 

[rogerg]

Correct 😉 Paul differentiated between the seed that came through jacob, the seed of promise who are the children of israel, the vessels of mercy and the children of esau who were the edomites that christ singled out as the race of vipers who the blood of all the prophets from righteous abel to zacharius was ascribed to them and their seed, the vessels of destruction

Obidiah 1:15-18
15“For the day of the Lord upon all the nations is near;
As you have done, it shall be done to you;
Your [g]reprisal shall return upon your own head.
16For as you drank on My holy mountain,
So shall all the nations drink continually;
Yes, they shall drink, and swallow,
And they shall be as though they had never been.
Israel’s Final Triumph
17“But on Mount Zion there shall be [h]deliverance,
And there shall be holiness;
The house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
18The house of Jacob shall be a fire,
And the house of Joseph a flame;
But the house of Esau shall be stubble;
They shall kindle them and devour them,
And no survivor shall remain of the house of Esau,”
For the Lord has spoken.

Matthew 23:29-36
“29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and you say ‘If we were in the days of our fathers, we would not have been their partners in the blood of the prophets!' 31 Thusly you bear witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets, 32 and you shall fulfill the measure of your fathers! 33 Serpents! Race of vipers! How could you escape from the judgment of Gehenna?

“34 For this reason, behold! I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes. Some of them you shall kill and crucify, and some of them you shall flog in your assembly halls and persecute from city to city! 35 Thusly should come upon you all the righteous blood poured out upon the earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharios who had been murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this race!

Consequently, it was these children of Esau who had had been forcibly converted to judaism by king john hyrcanus in 135-105bc who had seized power from king herod to the priesthood in judea, wicked pharisees and saduccees who were responsible for the crucifying of our King. Upon the return of the King of Kings will obidiah 1:18 be fulfilled in the power and the glory thereof.

Genesis 25:23
23And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the otherpeople; and the elder shall serve the younger.

That is allegory. It represents two different spiritual groups: those saved by Christ - those whom He would make and did make spiritually free regardless of physical lineage - and those not saved by Christ - those left in bondage regardless physical lineage.

[Gal 4:22-26, 30-31 KJV]
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. ...
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[rogerg]

Consequently, it was these children of Esau who had had been forcibly converted to judaism by king john hyrcanus in 135-105bc who had seized power from king herod to the priesthood in judea, wicked pharisees and saduccees who were responsible for the crucifying of our King. Upon the return of the King of Kings will obidiah 1:18 be fulfilled in the power and the glory thereof.

Just to continue my prior reply a little further, the "bondage" (above) represents being under the bondage of law for salvation, whereas,
the "free" (above) represents salvation solely by God's mercy and grace and being free of law; that is, nothing whatsoever is required from/by those given salvation - it is a free gift. So, the entire gospel message is encapsulated within/by the verses above.