Did Jesus and Paul teach differnt gospels?
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i think this might be the "only Paul please no one but Paul" vs "everyone but Paul please not Paul" thread.
not sure; haven't read it all.
Paul is anti-Paul himself:
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.
(Galatians 2:20)
you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
(1 Corinthians 3:3-4)
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name!
(1 Corinthians 1:13-15)
@Absolutely
can you even imagine the chewing out Paul would give some of these people? but they think we're harsh, and keep calling me 'troll' for sticking to the truth
Your reading comprehension is strange. I already stated twice that James is Jesus Brother.
My objection to you is that he is not one of the 12.
You mention catholic out of the blue when it had no relevance to my point
People keep jumping into this objection but they have no problem adopting the same stance towards the ot.
People are so clear that the ot were mostly written TO the Jews but we can learn lessons from them as they are written FOR our learning.
Yet they cannot accept that the 4 gospels are as ot as the rest of the of. The new covenant began only with the death of Christ, as Hebrews stated
Yes it is crazy. Anyhint at obedience is neary instantly spoken against I don't get how any follower of Jesus could think this way. It's like everything has been turned up-side-down. But I suppose the word of God tells us it would be like this, that mystery babylon mother of harlots would decieve the whole world. While it certianly has not been an overnight change it kind of seems like it or I just have not been exposed to so many people who frame obedience to His laws/commands as evil.
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"
Daniel 7:25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
May God open their eyes and lead them on His path.
You must have not understood what I said. YOu say out of the blue, but Im telling you some possibilities I have found and about their origin.
There are multiple men with the name "James" (Jacob) in NT times.
They get confused historically.
Not saying I have it figured out, but I have a large library of historical books on this time period.While not all accounts agree, there does seem to be evidence that James the Just, leader of the Jerusalem assembly was Jesus half brother.
It seems to me the Romans Catholic Church has partaken in a cover up to change who Jesus half brother was for the main reason of "keeping Mary pure" claiming she had no other children than Jesus. Thus through the years manipulating opinion.
It is not "out of the blue" when it pertains to the topic.
Coming from a person who has slandered me with name calling.
Say what you will, I continually speak on following Jesus and not letting anyone get in the way of that.
Bottom line is no one besides Paul himself call him an apostle of Jesus, and it is only by Paul's own words taht Jesus spoke to him,
According to Jesus even He can not testify on His own behlaf and it be true:
John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”
Also there is a test for ANY who claim to speak for God, it is in Deut 13.
Finally Jesus said His words to follow were: "These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you" and "bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you"
John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
These are the words all men will be judged by:
John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”
You can either show me how Paul meets these requirements, show me why Im wrong about Jesus words or otherwise all I see is you operating off emotion rather than spirit led truth. The spirit does not teach anything that is not in line with the authenticaed to be the word of God. But if one does not know the word to know the way to test a prophet and to authenticate then it is simply tradition and emotion.
John 14:6, “Jesus proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me.”
You are saying James the just is one of the 12 apostles.
I am saying no.
Please stick to the topic instead of changing it to whether James is Jesus Brother. I am not disputing that
Whining about namecalling, what else, lack of love? Give it a rest, you are teaching people to disregard Paul, question his apostleship and are leading people astray. I called you out on it, now you cry foul? You talking about word of God over there and dont even believe MOST of the New Testament!
Pay attention anybody thats a new Christian, favorite tricks of the enemy we see play out in our society, "oh you're not loving because you dont accept this sinful lifestyle of mine, only God can judge, let him who is without sin cast the first stone, no one is perfect, Jesus would love this community, dont judge, dont namecall (even though Jesus did and many other men of God in the Bible, but these people are biblically illiterate so that one goes without saying), dont judge" <- This individual just tried to play that same card, I called him out on him teaching against Paul's apostleship because I worry for new believers who might read that, and like an injured wolf he cried "namecalling". Go read your Bible, Jesus called people brood of vipers, I didnt call you that or anything close to it, WHAT NAME did I call you??
Paul's apostleship is ALREADY proven by the fact that PETER cosigns him in his letter and EVERYONE at the Jerusalem church council cosigns him in Acts 15. THATS A DONE DEAL. You wouldnt even KNOW about Jesus if it wasnt for Paul making the HUGE contributions he did by spreading the Gospel in the Roman Empire. YOU ARE INGRATEFUL *(Insert namecalling here)*
In case you forgot, CHRISTIANITY is not some 21st century hippie club. I keep seeing this weird thing where what some folks think of as Christianity is actually more in line with buddhism and the way them folks behave. Anger is the way to the darkside", do some of yall get your theology from buddhism and star wars and internet memes? Mamma mia!
And how is it that NOBODY is noticing this guy just straight up disregarding most of the NT and sowing the same doubt to others? Aint nobody said a word HUH?
I never saw the conflict untill the paul only doctrine crossed my path via les feldick. I used to like him up to that point. Then a guy came to the bible study that was a parrot of miles safford.(hyper paul only). That gave me the incentive to look deeper.
A simple bible study proved they were wrong. I check everything. Do all my own research.
Heres the thing. The only safe place is with Jesus. He is never decieved. You and i can be. He never is decieved.
I stick close to him.
My bible is my bible. It is Gods word. It ain't "paul said...james said...peter said"
It is from heaven,to me.
I never will have to unlearn the "paul said " etc, stuff.
He is questioning Paul's apostleship. Dont even believe Paul is an apostle.
These guys coming out the woodworks.
Bro I attend a dispie church I just want to let you know: NOT ALL OF US believe in two gospels. Actually most dont!
We can pay attention to detail or not, please consider this;
John 14:23-26 is about doctrine for one's walk to follow Jesus shown in verse 23-24. In verse 25 Jesus states "These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you" showing us that the "words to keep v23" are the words He spoke while in the flesh v25. V26 simply shows us the holy Spirit will "bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
John 14:23-26, "23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."
Then we see Jesus say in John 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now." Now pay close attention, in verse 13 He says "he will declare to you the things that are to come."
John 16:12-15, "12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you."15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”
Now what could these things be? Paul's writings or something else?
I will present that it is the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ:
Rev 1:1, "to show to his servants the things that must soon take place"
Revelation 1:1-2, "1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw."
Remember what did John 16:12 say? “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now." Now pay close attention, in verse 13 He says "he will declare to you the things that are to come." and in Rev 1:1 He says: "to show to his servants the things that must soon take place."
However Paul did say he was NOT sent to baptize. Yet Jesus seant His disciples to baptize and teach what He taught them.
1 Corinthians 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void."
Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit."
I will say that makes sense, and one is inside and the other outside, however if we look at all the surrounding circumstance:
Luke 15:1-7, " 1 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.” 3 So he told them this parable: 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ 7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance."
So we are to hand people over to stan for destrucion of the fleah?
1 Corinthians 5:1-13, “It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord."
So this man in the assembly is judged in the flesh instantly, but Paul can not be judged in the prior chapter:
1 Corinthians 4:1-5, "4:1, "Think of us as servants of the Messiah and as servant managers entrusted with God’s secrets."4:2, "Now it is required of servant managers that each one should prove to be trustworthy."4:3, "It is a very small thing to me that I should be examined by you or by any human court. In fact, I don’t even evaluate myself."4:4, "For my conscience is clear, but that does not vindicate me. It is the Lord who examines me."4:5, "Therefore, stop judging prematurely, before the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is now hidden in darkness and reveal the motives of our hearts. Then each person will receive his praise from God."
Seem Paul judged before the time, but Paul did say "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord" So I suppose that makes it ok.
Maybe you misunderstood what I see as the problem, not the "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities" part but the bolded here:
Romans 13:1-2, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."
Hosea 8:4, "They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction."
Lets deal with 1 Peter I see it as saying as "servants of God" meaning living His way and in V17 bortherd, God and Jesus (the King):
1 Peter 2:13-17, " 13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king."
Where Peter says: "that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people" Paul says: "For rulers are not a terror to good conduct" But actually Constantine, Nero, etc killed thousands of Christians just for being Chrsitians.
Acts 4:26, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed."
It seems very similar on the surface, but I dont se it as so, I will old the part I think are questionable;
Romans 13:1-6, " 1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
I do not see it as an OT - NT issue. I believe when Adam sinned it opened the door for satan.
Luke 4:5-6, "And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will."
Look at the world, is it ruled by righteous men or evil men? Look at history was it any differnt 2,000 years ago? I don't think so. Also why was this said in Acts if it was an OT thing?
Acts 4:26, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed."
What Im selling is follow Jesus.
1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”
John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”
and don't let anyone get in the way of that.
1 Corinthians 4:15-16, “You may have 10,000 mentors who work for the Messiah, but not many fathers (G3962 patér). For in the Messiah Jesus I have begotten* you through the gospel. So I urge you to imitate me.”
Matthew 23:9, “And call no man your father (G3962 patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.”
“*begotten 1 Corinthians 4:15-16” is word #G1080 gennaó: to beget, to bring forth, Original Word: γεννάω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: gennaó, Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-nah'-o), Short Definition: I beget, bring forth, give birth to, Definition: I beget (of the male), (of the female) I bring forth, give birth to.
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me (Paul), brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”
1 John 2:6, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”
2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me (Paul), in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”
John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”
But Paul had authority to speak on behalf of the Lord, the apostle's words are actually Jesus' words.
Jesus taught obedience to the law of Moses, whereas Paul taught salvation by grace through faith apart from the Law. Paul does not contradict Jesus, he teaches a new doctrine applicable to the New Covenant era.
No, Mattithias took Judas the betrayer's place:
Revelation 21:14, “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
Matthias was chosen to properly replace Judas, the Messiah’s apostles and the prophecy in Psalms are trustworthy witnesses.
Acts 1:20-26, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office,’ who was one of the men associated with us all the time the Lord Jesus came and went among us, beginning when he was baptized by John until the day he was taken up from us. Therefore, someone like this must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” So they nominated two men—Joseph called Barsabbas, who also was called Justus, and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all people. Show us which one of these two men you have chosen to serve in this office of apostle, from which Judas left to go to his own place.” So they drew lots for them, and when the lot fell on Matthias, he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.”
If Paul was to be an apostle of Jesus why was a replacement for Judas already selected, would not the Holy Spirit not have had them wait to select Paul?
Acts 1:20, “For in the Book of Psalms it is written, ‘Let his estate be desolate, and let no one live on it,’ and ‘Let someone else take over his office.”
Psalm 109:6-8, “Appoint an evil person (Judas) over Him (Jesus); may an accuser stand at His right side. When he is judged, may he be found guilty; may his prayer be regarded as sin. May his days be few; may another (Matthias) take over his position.”
Therefore, the apostles cannot be condemned as making a false or hasty decision on how and when they cast lots to select the replacement for Judas. For it was fulfillment of prophecy.