Did God create people for Hell on purpose?

[Genez]

The key to understanding how an Omniscient God can create those who God knows will reject Him, would be the answer needed before we all stop the race for more and more subjective speculation.

Here is what we can know.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​

whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through ​

him and for him." Colossians 1:6​

It says... "through him and for him."
Those words hold the key.

Why not just say?
He created all things?

Why?
Because God is a Trinity.
All Three had a part in the actual creating.

Here is some gold that reveals why all things were created through him and for him.

For Jesus, having two natures in union, had in the incarnation revealed that he has the ability
to make himself be as a man.
To make himself to be as a soul in what limits and enables him in his thinking.

Note:

When the heavens and earth were created?
The word is Elohim is a plurality = God.
In contrast... The Son = singular.

God "Elohim" Trinity -was the divine power in creating (materializing) all things that the Son designed and invented.

But all those things that God (Trinity) brought into existence = created?
Before being created? All those things created, first had to go through the Son.
Designed for Him... i.e... designed and invented for the Son.

Meaning?

Jesus was the inventor and designer of all things that the Trinity brought into being!
Keep in mind. He designed and invented you and me. Each one of us.

Now...

I need to rest until what I just said is understood by some here.
I believe not all will understand.
For all things concerning Scripture when handed to the body of Christ always ends up that way!


Grace and peace .......

 

[PaulThomson]

Jesus was the inventor and designer of all things that the Trinity brought into being!
Keep in mind. He designed and invented you and me. Each one of us.

The Son designed and invented the process by which you and I came into existence. That is quite a different proposition to a claim that the Son designed and created every act of every entity that comes into being by that process, even the act themselves that will send them to hell.

 

[Genez]

The Son designed and invented the process by which you and I came into existence. That is quite a different proposition to a claim that the Son designed and created every act of every entity that comes into being by that process, even the act themselves that will send them to hell.

No sir.
Because if what you said were so?
Then God did deliberately create some to go to Hell.
Jesus had deliberately suspended his power of omniscience while in the process of creating each one of us.
Desiring only that each one created would learn to love God as He loves God.

To grasp that we got to understand the manifestation of Jesus in the Incarnation.

He preexisted as Soul and Deity in union… Being as God being expressed via a soul.

In the Incarnation?
He was able to make Himself function as a man, by having His Deity kept and remaining in a passive mode in regard to influencing His soul. He ceased being omniscient.



Now keep in mind?

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24​

Jesus said that God is "spirit."
Not, soul!
Jesus is both Deity and Soul in union = two natures.

In the Torah the dual nature of the Son was revealed, but never defined as such as we know Him today - Jesus Christ.

Here are some passages from the OT that show the two natures of the Lord God of Israel.

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, ​

so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Judges 10:16​

​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone loving violence ​

his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

Jesus Christ is God's unique union of being Soul and God. The "Son of God."

What happened in the Incarnation was the Lord God of Israel volunteering to lay down his life in his abilities as God, and to take on a life of being solely a living soul amongst men.

And, that soul was the same soul that the Lord God of Israel was being when he was manifesting himself in union with Deity!

Philippians 2:6-8​

​

Who, being in very nature God,​

did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;​

rather, he made himself nothing​

by taking the very nature of a servant,​

being made in human likeness.​

And being found in appearance as a man,​

he humbled himself​

by becoming obedient to death—​

even death on a cross!​

In effect?
Jesus denied Himself his unique function as God, and reduced himself to walking solely as a man being a soul.

He alone has that ability to do that.
The Father can not make himself to be a soul.
Nor can the Holy Spirit make himself be as a soul.

Only Jesus can.

 

[tablet123]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Hell was created for the devil and his angels and when Adam and Eve sinned then for the human sinners for they have the same rebellious nature.

All sin must be purged with fire and the devils and the human sinners will be purged with fire for eternity.

The saints are baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

And this earth and heaven will be purged with fire for they have been tainted with sin.

Which death and hell shall be cast into the lake of fire.

The wicked shall go in to the lower parts of the earth which is where hell is at.

So the earth will be cast in to the lake of fire.

When the transgressors are come to the full at their peak of rebelliousness the devils will be cast to earth and Satan appears as the antichrist.

Which the earth becomes the habitation of devils and becomes the holding cell of them.

Which the devils and the wicked humans will be confined to the earth when it is destroyed by fire.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Some people think the sinners will be annihilated.

But their worm never dies which means they will feel the effects of the flesh forever.

Which they are weeping and gnashing their teeth which they still exist.

They will be cast in to outer darkness because they will be isolated from all people and will only see darkness.

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And why will the wicked suffer.

Because they did not care about people and did not love them.

They hurt them, stole from them, and offended them, and even though they might not of wanted to kill a person they approved of it happening to certain people, and thought they deserved harm coming to them.

Where a saint is never to want harm to come to any person regardless how they behave.

 

[Gideon300]

The key to understanding how an Omniscient God can create those who God knows will reject Him, would be the answer needed before we all stop the race for more and more subjective speculation.

Here is what we can know.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​

whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through ​

him and for him." Colossians 1:6​

It says... "through him and for him."
Those words hold the key.

Why not just say?
He created all things?

Why?
Because God is a Trinity.
All Three had a part in the actual creating.

Here is some gold that reveals why all things were created through him and for him.

For Jesus, having two natures in union, had in the incarnation revealed that he has the ability
to make himself be as a man.
To make himself to be as a soul in what limits and enables him in his thinking.

Note:

When the heavens and earth were created?
The word is Elohim is a plurality = God.
In contrast... The Son = singular.

God "Elohim" Trinity -was the divine power in creating (materializing) all things that the Son designed and invented.

But all those things that God (Trinity) brought into existence = created?
Before being created? All those things created, first had to go through the Son.
Designed for Him... i.e... designed and invented for the Son.

Meaning?

Jesus was the inventor and designer of all things that the Trinity brought into being!
Keep in mind. He designed and invented you and me. Each one of us.

Now...

I need to rest until what I just said is understood by some here.
I believe not all will understand.
For all things concerning Scripture when handed to the body of Christ always ends up that way!


Grace and peace .......

God did not create people for hell. Hell was created for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41). This was done during the prior creation, when Satan fell initially. Man's responsibility was to restore the earth, take control and defeat the devil. Adam instead committed high treason when he allied himself to Satan and so rejected God.

God did not consign man to hell directly. Since fallen man has taken on Satan's evil nature, he shares in Satan's destiny. Those who turn to Christ are no longer subject to hell. Those who do not remain on the broad path to destruction. God did not cause this to happen. Yes, He knew it would happen, but that is not the same as causing it to happen.

God was not obliged to save anyone. He could have kept Adam and Eve barren and created a new being who would obey. God chose instead to do that but through His Son, Jesus. Jesus is called the Last Adam. Jesus did all that God commissioned Adam to do and so pleased God perfectly. Anyone who accepts Lord Jesus shares in His victory and His glory. We are new creations, no longer destined for hell. Heaven is now our home right now.

God restored mankind to Himself at the greatest cost possible. God can and has created anything that He wants. He could not create His own Son. Lord Jesus has always existed. Yet God sent Him to put on human form so that He could die for us and rise again so that we might live. That's love. If you do not understand anything else, know that God loves you so much that He gave His Son that you might live.

 

[PaulThomson]

No sir.
Because if what you said were so?
Then God did deliberately create some to go to Hell.

Please demonstrate why creating the process and biology of sexual generation by which we all come into being beginning as innocent blameless foetuses, babies and infants, means that God deliberately created some to go to hell?

 

[Genez]

Please demonstrate why creating the process and biology of sexual generation by which we all come into being beginning as innocent blameless foetuses, babies and infants, means that God deliberately created some to go to hell?

Not sure what you are getting at.
The body is not even the cause, nor issue....

It is the soul that was created in God's image.

Man and woman do not produce the soul.
God does that.
Man and woman only provide a body for a soul.

When God created man in His image, in Genesis 1:27?
No human body for the soul yet existed.

Omniscience knows how each soul will ultimately choose.
Each soul, when created through, and for Jesus, was created without knowing by Jesus how that soul would choose.

 

[GWH]

The key to understanding how an Omniscient God can create those who God knows will reject Him, would be the answer needed before we all stop the race for more and more subjective speculation.

Here is what we can know.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​

whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through ​

him and for him." Colossians 1:6​

It says... "through him and for him."
Those words hold the key.

Why not just say?
He created all things?

Why?
Because God is a Trinity.
All Three had a part in the actual creating.

Here is some gold that reveals why all things were created through him and for him.

For Jesus, having two natures in union, had in the incarnation revealed that he has the ability
to make himself be as a man.
To make himself to be as a soul in what limits and enables him in his thinking.

Note:

When the heavens and earth were created?
The word is Elohim is a plurality = God.
In contrast... The Son = singular.

God "Elohim" Trinity -was the divine power in creating (materializing) all things that the Son designed and invented.

But all those things that God (Trinity) brought into existence = created?
Before being created? All those things created, first had to go through the Son.
Designed for Him... i.e... designed and invented for the Son.

Meaning?

Jesus was the inventor and designer of all things that the Trinity brought into being!
Keep in mind. He designed and invented you and me. Each one of us.

Now...

I need to rest until what I just said is understood by some here.
I believe not all will understand.
For all things concerning Scripture when handed to the body of Christ always ends up that way!


Grace and peace .......

The key to understanding people is discerning how they differ from animals, which is by having God-consciousness and moral conscience or the ability to choose to between qualitatively opposite moral options (MFW): good and evil.

These options are opposite because of the qualitatively opposite consequences for choosing them: choosing good results in blessing/heaven and choosing evil results in misery/hell.

It is not God's intentional will for humans to make the theoretical option of evil actual by choosing it, but God knew that would happen and had a plan of salvation from the beginning that culminated with the crucifixion of Christ, who atoned for the sins of humanity IF they believe in Him as Messiah and the Lord incarnate.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Not sure what you are getting at.
The body is not even the cause, nor issue....

It is the soul that was created in God's image.

Man and woman do not produce the soul.
God does that.
Man and woman only provide a body for a soul.

When God created man in His image, in Genesis 1:27?
No human body for the soul yet existed.

Omniscience knows how each soul will ultimately choose.
Each soul, when created through, and for Jesus, was created without knowing by Jesus how that soul would choose.

Look at it this way. Let’s say that Jim lives his life as an atheist and rejects Jesus. He dies with his atheistic belief. Gods send him to hell. Now God only knows that Jim was gonna end up in hell because he created Jim. If God had never created Jim then God wouldn’t have known that Jim would end up in hell because he would have never existed. God didn’t cause Jim to choose hell. God didn’t create Jim for hell.

I’m not gonna pretend to fully understand time as God operates it. But my guess would be He doesn’t create us, then decides to hit rewind so he can try again to create a better one. I don’t think he takes mulligans if you’ve ever played golf.

 

[Kroogz]

The key to understanding how an Omniscient God can create those who God knows will reject Him, would be the answer needed before we all stop the race for more and more subjective speculation.

Here is what we can know.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​

whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through ​

him and for him." Colossians 1:6​

It says... "through him and for him."
Those words hold the key.

Why not just say?
He created all things?

Why?
Because God is a Trinity.
All Three had a part in the actual creating.

Here is some gold that reveals why all things were created through him and for him.

For Jesus, having two natures in union, had in the incarnation revealed that he has the ability
to make himself be as a man.
To make himself to be as a soul in what limits and enables him in his thinking.

Note:

When the heavens and earth were created?
The word is Elohim is a plurality = God.
In contrast... The Son = singular.

God "Elohim" Trinity -was the divine power in creating (materializing) all things that the Son designed and invented.

But all those things that God (Trinity) brought into existence = created?
Before being created? All those things created, first had to go through the Son.
Designed for Him... i.e... designed and invented for the Son.

Meaning?

Jesus was the inventor and designer of all things that the Trinity brought into being!
Keep in mind. He designed and invented you and me. Each one of us.

Now...

I need to rest until what I just said is understood by some here.
I believe not all will understand.
For all things concerning Scripture when handed to the body of Christ always ends up that way!


Grace and peace .......

To be honest sir, you have offered me peace and understanding to this complex issue.

I was taught it, but didn't see it until you brought it about in clarity.

Forever thanks Brother.

 

[PaulThomson]

Not sure what you are getting at.
The body is not even the cause, nor issue....

It is the soul that was created in God's image.

Man and woman do not produce the soul.
God does that.
Man and woman only provide a body for a soul.

When God created man in His image, in Genesis 1:27?
No human body for the soul yet existed.

Omniscience knows how each soul will ultimately choose.
Each soul, when created through, and for Jesus, was created without knowing by Jesus how that soul would choose.

My opinion is that each zygote begins with a consciousness. and develops a basic soul as it grows in the womb. And each baby begins with an intellect, emotions, senses (a basic soul) and grows and shapes its soul through further experiences and its responses to those experiences. Can you prove me wrong?

Can you prove from scripture that knowing all THINGS includes knowing all the future, including what each future soul will be, and all its future choices?If not, why should I believe you?

 

[Kroogz]

My opinion is that each zygote begins with a consciousness.

What is consciousness?.....You don't know nor does any other.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Brasspen]

What if this, What if God can fortell the future, but it's not exactly what we think. Does he know ever step, by step of everything. Are does he know what he plans to bring and make fact? What if there are things that surprise, or delight, God? Seems like it would be so such a burden to him, if he never every step of the way, step for step.

In the old testiment God commanded a prophet, and told him to not stop and eat anything, if you do a lion will tear you up. Did he set him up for destruction, knowing he was going to fail? Or was he giving him a commandment, in *hopes he would obey?

God is not evil.

 

[Brasspen]

So where does this idea come from anyways, that God knows every step of the way for everything and anything. I do know he is all knowing, but that does not mean the same thing.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

So where does this idea come from anyways, that God knows every step of the way for everything and anything. I do know he is all knowing, but that does not mean the same thing.

Jer 1:5 and Isa 46:9-10. There are more but you can pretty much get the point from those two.

 

[PaulThomson]

What is consciousness?.....You don't know nor does any other.

Prove me wrong.

Google AI:
Consciousness is the subjective experience of being aware of yourself and your surroundings, encompassing your thoughts, feelings, sensations, memories, and perceptions, essentially "what it's like" to be you, though its origin and nature remain a profound mystery debated by philosophers and scientists. It's a state of awareness, subjectivity, and sentience, often described as the brain's integrated processing of information, allowing for internal feelings (qualia) like the sweetness of chocolate or pain, and external awareness.

Any living thing (i.e. any living cell or organisation of cells: amoebae, plants, insects, fish, , reptiles, mammals, bacteria) has consciousness, by which it is able to act as an entity and respond to whatever it senses.

 

[Brasspen]

Look at the Garden of Eden like this. God created the serpent, and made him crafty. But did God really do something evil, creating the serpent knowing who would do what is written in the book of revelations? Or was the act done against Adam and Eve unplanned? When God came to the Garden that afternoon, he called out to Eve, where are you? Eve said, "Here, we are hiding because we are naked." God then said, "Who told you, you where naked?!?" As in to say, How did you know that? Just finding out something had happened.

God had a plan for Adam and Eve, but something happened that was not part of he's plan.

Before the flood, God came to earth and looked upon it, and was *grieved that he had created Man, because man had been very violent. He said that he, "Repented", That he was, "Sorry" he created man. But then he seen Noah, and come up with a plan to get things started over again.

I do not believe God set us up, knowing we where going to all suffer like this. I believe he's plan was different, and something unexpected happen.

I believe what Jesus said, Only God is good.

I also believe that this concept used to be understood. But that now we have an illusion.

 

[Brasspen]

Many times God told Isreal, Obey my word today, and this is what will happen. Don't Obey my word, and this evil thing will happen. God can fortell the future like for certain, just like a military general knows what will happen when doing certain things. Just like an economist can foretell the market. I also believe God gives us prophecies, for plans he will enforce. Making it happen.

It's kind of like knowing what will happen to someone, who goes down the path of Drugs and Alcohol, we know what type of life and person they will become.

 

[Brasspen]

God cries out to people, "Repent, dont' do that, because something evil is going to happen to you." It could be true, that he can foretell the odds of they will repent. But it might true, that he doesn't know if it's going to work.

 

[seeking_christ]

Cain is the mark of the beast

let’s study his story

transfer me to the end times thread