Dead works

[Just_A__Follower]

In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so while I agree that would should obey out of love and connection with the Father, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't also obey out of duty. The reason why God gave His law was not in order to teach us how to have our own legalistic effort.

1 John 2:6 isn’t about legalistic duty. John is warning against hypocrisy. If we truly live in Christ, our lives will naturally reflect His example. Obedience flows from our connection to Him and love for the Father, not from just checking off rules.

 

[Gideon300]

The apple tree actually does produce the fruit via biophysics.
Luke 12:27 & 28
"Consider how the lilies grow: They do not labour or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his glory was adorned like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith!"

 

[Gideon300]

In John 15:1-10, the way to abide in Christ is by following his commandments, so it is incorrect to think that his commandments are the works that are going to get burned up or that by following them we are doing self efforts that are apart from Christ. 1 John 2:6, those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so following his example of walking in obedience to the Law of God is not apart from Christ.

You are clueless still. You have no idea of the work of the cross and you do not know the power of the resurrection of Christ. You do not know the difference between obedience to Christ and obedience to the law of Moses. Why do you think that God makes the distinction? Have you even read what the law is for? I've quoted it often enough. I did not make it up. It's in God's word.

Do you stone the adulterer? How about cutting off the hand of the thief? Do you kill the one who works on the Sabbath? That's all part of the law.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Luke 12:27 & 28
"Consider how the lilies grow: They do not labour or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his glory was adorned like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith!"

Pay attention to the context. He is saying to not fret and labor for worldly things

 

[Soyeong]

1 John 2:6 isn’t about legalistic duty. John is warning against hypocrisy. If we truly live in Christ, our lives will naturally reflect His example. Obedience flows from our connection to Him and love for the Father, not from just checking off rules.

I haven't said anything about being legalist, but rather it speaks about duty. It is our duty to follow Christ regardless of how naturally it comes to us. God has given instructions for how to have an intimate relationship with Him, not a checklist of rules.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Pay attention to the context. He is saying to not fret and labor for worldly things

Jesus is also pointing out that plants don’t work, their life and growth come from God.

 

[Soyeong]

You are clueless still. You have no idea of the work of the cross and you do not know the power of the resurrection of Christ. You do not know the difference between obedience to Christ and obedience to the law of Moses.

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and we can't have obedience to him instead of having obedience to what he taught. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Christ spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20).

Why do you think that God makes the distinction?

He didn't.

Have you even read what the law is for?

Indeed.

Do you stone the adulterer? How about cutting off the hand of the thief? Do you kill the one who works on the Sabbath? That's all part of the law.

The Law of Moses does not instruct us to kill anyone that we see breaking certain sins, but rather we are not permitted to execute anyone without a Sanhedrin. It also has a numberer guidelines in place to make executions relatively rare and to err on the side of caution of compassion, such as instructing that no one is to be put to death without at least two or three witnesses. A Sanhedrin that executed once every 70 years was considered to be murderous. Moreover, Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unlawful to enforce a penalty that has already been paid. Still the fact that God considered certain sins to be worthy of the death penalty and the fact that Jesus gave himself to pay that penalty should make us want to go and sin no more. Cutting off the hand of a thief is not part of the Mosaic Law.

 

[Dino246]

I haven't said anything about being legalist, but rather it speaks about duty. It is our duty to follow Christ regardless of how naturally it comes to us. God has given instructions for how to have an intimate relationship with Him, not a checklist of rules.

But you treat it as a checklist. You “teach” it as a checklist. I think k you’re playing with words in an attempt to avoid what is obvious. You have faith in yourself to keep God’s law, but faith in Jesus to maintain you in right relationship with Him.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I haven't said anything about being legalist, but rather it speaks about duty. It is our duty to follow Christ regardless of how naturally it comes to us. God has given instructions for how to have an intimate relationship with Him, not a checklist of rules.

The word “duty” usually implies obligation or compulsion, which is why it can sound legalistic. In 1 John 2:6, the focus is on love and connection with Christ, so obedience flows naturally rather than being a forced requirement. If it doesn’t come naturally from love and relationship with Him, it will usually end up feeling like a burden. True obedience is life giving because it’s rooted in connection, not compulsion.

 

[Soyeong]

The word “duty” usually implies obligation or compulsion, which is why it can sound legalistic. In 1 John 2:6, the focus is on love and connection with Christ, so obedience flows naturally rather than being a forced requirement. If it doesn’t come naturally from love and relationship with Him, it will usually end up feeling like a burden. True obedience is life giving because it’s rooted in connection, not compulsion.

How do you define "legalistic"? God is sovereign, so we are obligated to obey what He has commanded regardless of whether or not we love Him and want a relationship with Him, but we should also obey because we do love Him and want a relationship with Him.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus is also pointing out that plants don’t work, their life and growth come from God.

And I pointed out that they do indeed work. Water can't go from the ground to the uppermost leaves without work. It's basic physics

 

[Just_A__Follower]

How do you define "legalistic"? God is sovereign, so we are obligated to obey what He has commanded regardless of whether or not we love Him and want a relationship with Him, but we should also obey because we do love Him and want a relationship with Him.

I define legalistic as obeying rules out of obligation or fear without heart or love behind it. I agree that God is sovereign and His commands are absolute but Jesus’ point is that obedience is meant to flow from love and connection not just duty. When obedience comes from love it isn’t a burden it’s a natural response to the relationship we have with Him. After all we are His children not His employees

 

[pinebeach]

A plant produces fruit because it works to do so. Things don't just magically happen

Hmmmm......

A plant produces fruit because it is engineered to do so, either by God's design or the will of mankind. It's not work. The plant really can't help itself. Do you remember what Jesus said to the fig tree that had no fruit? He cursed it because it had no fruit and the next day it was dead.

Our work on ourselves will not produce the fruit God is looking for. Have you wondered why your attitude, likes and dislikes etc change when you are on the path towards Jesus? Your inner being does not work on itself to change. The Holy Spirit within you has given you new life.

John 3: 5,6: Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

John 14:26: But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Romans 8:26: In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

1 Corinthians 2: 12-16: What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit taught words.[a] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Ephesians 1:13-14: And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

So what I am pointing out, is that while we are certainly able to work with the Holy Spirit we are also able to just silence His 'voice' in our conscience. However, once we do have the Holy Spirit, we are no longer on our own. As provided for in the scriptures above, we see He helps us in our weakness, He is not the spirit that is in this world, He is our guaranteer that we are now Gods', He is our teacher and many other things.

We cannot produce fruit by working for it. The fruit of the Holy Spirit, “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control” is not tangible like say giving to someone who needs our help or related. This fruit is developed in the inner person and often through trial(s). So, just like say an avocado tree produces avocados (I just ate one) the Holy Spirit produces in us the fruit God is looking for and if you really do belong to Him, you might not like the 'fertilizer' being used at times, but that is part of the process.

And, when no fruit is produced, you are not legitimately what you say you are if a believer in Jesus.

You cannot force yourself into patience or love or self-control and many have tried. The world tries all the time. Just like a plant or a tree must absorb the 'fertilizer' to help it be 'fruitful', we have to allow God to change us through His Spirit to bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is not our fruit. It is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”
Gal. 5: 22-23