Dead works

[Gideon300]

Hebrews 4:9-11
There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.…

The Sabbath rest has nothing to do with Saturday worship. I'll get that out of the way. The subject of the Sabbath has been done to death and I will not enter into the discussion again in this post.

There are two kinds of work. One is the self effort that tries to please God by what we do. This is guaranteed to fail and, in fact, disobedience. Paul warned the Galatians that putting themselves under the law again caused them to fall from grace. This does not mean loss of eternal life. It means that God leaves us to "enjoy" the consequences of our actions. Paul warned the Corinthians,

1 Corinthians 3: 10-15 (It's good to read the chapter for context)
"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."

"If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames."

There will be a final accounting on the day of judgement where our works will be evaluated by fire. Some will watch everything they've done being consumed by the fire of God's judgement. Others will see their works approved and receive the appropriate reward.

We also go through refining fire in this life. (1 Peter 1:7). Some of us have experienced this. It's no fun, and sometimes what we thought to be good and worthy becomes a pile of ashes. However, we can hand over those ashes to God and He will give us His beauty instead. (Isaiah 61:3)

God will not share His glory with another. (Isaiah 48:11) Either He does the work in us and through us, or it is consumed.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God will not share His glory with another. (Isaiah 48:11) Either He does the work in us and through us, or it is consumed.

I don't believe this biblical. Scripture says he works in us (for us) to do his will, not for him to do his will. His will is being done through those who obey his voice, but he himself is not doing the works. He supplies the nourishment, but we produce the fruit when we walk according to the spirit. There is no law against the fruits of the spirit, therefore there is no judgment against them and there will be no loss

For God is the one active in you both to choose and to be active for the good-purpose. Philippians 2:13​

​

But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23​

 

[vassal]

Hebrews 4:9-11
There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.…

The Sabbath rest has nothing to do with Saturday worship. I'll get that out of the way. The subject of the Sabbath has been done to death and I will not enter into the discussion again in this post.

There are two kinds of work. One is the self effort that tries to please God by what we do. This is guaranteed to fail and, in fact, disobedience. Paul warned the Galatians that putting themselves under the law again caused them to fall from grace. This does not mean loss of eternal life. It means that God leaves us to "enjoy" the consequences of our actions. Paul warned the Corinthians,

1 Corinthians 3: 10-15 (It's good to read the chapter for context)
"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."

"If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames."

There will be a final accounting on the day of judgement where our works will be evaluated by fire. Some will watch everything they've done being consumed by the fire of God's judgement. Others will see their works approved and receive the appropriate reward.

We also go through refining fire in this life. (1 Peter 1:7). Some of us have experienced this. It's no fun, and sometimes what we thought to be good and worthy becomes a pile of ashes. However, we can hand over those ashes to God and He will give us His beauty instead. (Isaiah 61:3)

God will not share His glory with another. (Isaiah 48:11) Either He does the work in us and through us, or it is consumed.

Your title is dead works, so let us stay there and speak plainly.
First, Hebrews 4:9–11 speaks about a rest that remains for the people of God. The warning in that passage is not about trying too hard to obey. It is about falling through disobedience. The writer points back to Israel in the wilderness. They did not fail because they worked too much. They failed because they would not believe and obey. The text itself says, “so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.” The danger is not obedience. The danger is unbelief that refuses to follow God.
There are indeed works that are dead. In Epistle to the Hebrews 6:1, we are told to repent from dead works. Dead works are works done apart from faith, apart from God’s Spirit, done to establish our own righteousness. Those cannot give life.
But Scripture never calls obedience to God “dead works.” Jesus said in Gospel of John 14:15, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (ASV). That is not self-effort to earn life. That is the fruit of loving Him. In John 15:10 He said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love.” Obedience is the evidence of life, not the enemy of grace.

You quoted 1 Corinthians 3. That passage does show that works will be tested. Some works endure, some burn. There are rewards. That is true. But notice something important: Paul says no one can lay another foundation than Jesus Christ. The foundation is Christ. Yet what is built on that foundation still matters. Fire does not test something meaningless. It tests something real.
Jesus Himself spoke of judgment in Gospel of Matthew 25:31–46. There the separation of sheep and goats is not about invisible positions in Christ. It is about what was actually done or not done. He says, “Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these… ye did it unto me.” That is not dead work. That is living faith working through love.

You say God will not share His glory. That is true, as written in Book of Isaiah 48:11. But when God works in a person, He produces real fruit. Jesus said in John 15:8, “Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; and so shall ye be my disciples.” God is glorified not by passivity, but by fruit that comes from abiding in Christ.
The phrase, “He who has the Son has the Life,” comes from First Epistle of John 5:12. And that same letter says in 2:3–4, “Hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar.” That is very direct.

So yes, Christ makes the dead alive. Life begins with Him. But the life He gives is not empty. It walks. It obeys. It loves. It endures.
Dead works are works done without Him.
Living works are the works He produces in those who truly belong to Him.

The real question is not only, “Do you have the Son?” The fuller question Jesus asks is this: Are you abiding in Him, and is His life showing through you?

 

[Gideon300]

Your title is dead works, so let us stay there and speak plainly.
First, Hebrews 4:9–11 speaks about a rest that remains for the people of God. The warning in that passage is not about trying too hard to obey. It is about falling through disobedience. The writer points back to Israel in the wilderness. They did not fail because they worked too much. They failed because they would not believe and obey. The text itself says, “so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.” The danger is not obedience. The danger is unbelief that refuses to follow God.
There are indeed works that are dead. In Epistle to the Hebrews 6:1, we are told to repent from dead works. Dead works are works done apart from faith, apart from God’s Spirit, done to establish our own righteousness. Those cannot give life.
But Scripture never calls obedience to God “dead works.” Jesus said in Gospel of John 14:15, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (ASV). That is not self-effort to earn life. That is the fruit of loving Him. In John 15:10 He said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love.” Obedience is the evidence of life, not the enemy of grace.

You quoted 1 Corinthians 3. That passage does show that works will be tested. Some works endure, some burn. There are rewards. That is true. But notice something important: Paul says no one can lay another foundation than Jesus Christ. The foundation is Christ. Yet what is built on that foundation still matters. Fire does not test something meaningless. It tests something real.
Jesus Himself spoke of judgment in Gospel of Matthew 25:31–46. There the separation of sheep and goats is not about invisible positions in Christ. It is about what was actually done or not done. He says, “Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these… ye did it unto me.” That is not dead work. That is living faith working through love.

You say God will not share His glory. That is true, as written in Book of Isaiah 48:11. But when God works in a person, He produces real fruit. Jesus said in John 15:8, “Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; and so shall ye be my disciples.” God is glorified not by passivity, but by fruit that comes from abiding in Christ.
The phrase, “He who has the Son has the Life,” comes from First Epistle of John 5:12. And that same letter says in 2:3–4, “Hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar.” That is very direct.

So yes, Christ makes the dead alive. Life begins with Him. But the life He gives is not empty. It walks. It obeys. It loves. It endures.
Dead works are works done without Him.
Living works are the works He produces in those who truly belong to Him.

The real question is not only, “Do you have the Son?” The fuller question Jesus asks is this: Are you abiding in Him, and is His life showing through you?

You are frustrating to talk to. You say a good deal that is true and then you blow it by putting grace back under law.

 

[Gideon300]

I don't believe this biblical. Scripture says he works in us (for us) to do his will, not for him to do his will. His will is being done through those who obey his voice, but he himself is not doing the works. He supplies the nourishment, but we produce the fruit when we walk according to the spirit. There is no law against the fruits of the spirit, therefore there is no judgment against them and there will be no loss

For God is the one active in you both to choose and to be active for the good-purpose. Philippians 2:13​

​

But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23​

Do you know the difference between works and fruit?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do you know the difference between works and fruit?

A plant produces fruit because it works to do so. Things don't just magically happen

 

[vassal]

I wrote this some time ago but it is pertinent to this thread, it shows the differences between good and dead works.

Works That Please God: Proof of True Faith

Faith and works are inseparable in God’s plan. Jesus taught that believing in Him is shown by the way we live. Faith is alive when it produces action, but these works are not a way to earn salvation—they are evidence that faith is real in the heart. The Spirit of God plays a key role in this. He is given to guide, strengthen, and enable believers to walk in God’s ways. “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you” (John 14:16–17). It is the Spirit who leads believers to obey God’s commandments, producing works that show faith.

Jesus said, “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love” (John 15:10). Faith is expressed through obedience. Trusting God naturally leads to following His ways. The disciples also emphasized this. James explained: “My brethren, what doth it profit, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone” (James 2:14,17). Faith and works are two sides of the same coin: real faith produces action, and action without faith is empty.
James gives a powerful example in Abraham: “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”(James 2:21–22). Abraham’s obedience proved his trust in God. This shows that works flow from faith—they are the fruit, not the root.

The Old Testament also emphasizes obedience as the natural result of trusting God. “And ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you” (Deuteronomy 5:33). God’s commandments are for all people, not just Israel. Moral law, like the Ten Commandments, applies universally. “And the stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt” (Leviticus 19:34). Gentiles who trust God are called to live righteously, including mercy, honesty, and faithfulness.

Jesus confirmed this universal call: “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you” (John 15:14). Following Him means living by God’s will, keeping His commandments. Obedience is the visible fruit of faith, not the price of salvation. Practical examples abound: helping the poor, forgiving others, and acting justly. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink” (Matthew 25:34–35). These works flow from faith—they prove a heart that trusts God.

Even the prophets emphasized the kind of works God desires. “Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow” (Isaiah 1:17) and “What doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?” (Micah 6:8). God wants works of love, justice, mercy, humility, and obedience—works that reflect a heart aligned with His will.

God also warns against works He does not want. Empty rituals, prideful show, and disobedience are rejected. “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?” (Isaiah 1:11–12). God desires genuine love, not mere performance. “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves” (James 1:22). Works without faith, or works done only for show, are worthless.

Faith and works are linked because true faith always produces action. The Spirit empowers believers to obey and walk in God’s ways. God’s commandments are not abolished; they guide both Jews and Gentiles in living rightly. Works are never the way to earn salvation—they are the proof that faith is alive. Works God wants flow from love, justice, mercy, and obedience. Works God rejects are empty, prideful, or disobedient. Abraham, the prophets, James, and Jesus all show this: faith is the root, works are the fruit, and obedience is the evidence of a heart trusting God.

 

[Soyeong]

Hebrews 4:9-11
There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.…

In Hebrews 3:18, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, so someone should not think that they can enter into God's rest while having the same sort of disobedience that prevented the Israelites from entering into God's rest. In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remain a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our works as God rested from His works, and we should be are to enter into that rest so that no one might fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so we should continue to follow Christ's example of keeping the Sabbath holy.

The Sabbath rest has nothing to do with Saturday worship. I'll get that out of the way. The subject of the Sabbath has been done to death and I will not enter into the discussion again in this post.

God said to keep the 7th day holy (Exodus 20:8-11).

There are two kinds of work. One is the self effort that tries to please God by what we do. This is guaranteed to fail and, in fact, disobedience. Paul warned the Galatians that putting themselves under the law again caused them to fall from grace. This does not mean loss of eternal life. It means that God leaves us to "enjoy" the consequences of our actions. Paul warned the Corinthians,

God wanted His children to repent and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret a servant of God has warning against obeying Him and warning that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and it would again be absurd to interpret this as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. It is again absurd to act like God does want our obedience and is instead pleased by our disobedience.

We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of earning our righteousness in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), which makes it that much true that we can't earn our righteousness as the result of the works of the law that Galatians 5:4 is speaking about, yet it is also true that only the doers of the Law of God will be declared righteous (Romans 2:13), so there is a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be doers of it other than in order to earn it a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31).

1 Corinthians 3: 10-15 (It's good to read the chapter for context)
"By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."

"If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames."

There will be a final accounting on the day of judgement where our works will be evaluated by fire. Some will watch everything they've done being consumed by the fire of God's judgement. Others will see their works approved and receive the appropriate reward.

We also go through refining fire in this life. (1 Peter 1:7). Some of us have experienced this. It's no fun, and sometimes what we thought to be good and worthy becomes a pile of ashes. However, we can hand over those ashes to God and He will give us His beauty instead. (Isaiah 61:3)

God will not share His glory with another. (Isaiah 48:11) Either He does the work in us and through us, or it is consumed.

The works that will get burned up are not the ones that are instructed by God's Word. The way to build on the foundation God's Word made flesh is by following his example of embodying God's Word, not by refusing to do that. The work that God does in us is by graciously teaching us to be doers of His law. Dead works are the ones that lead to death in disobedience to the Law of God, not the ones that the Bible repeatedly says lead to life in obedience to it.

 

[Gideon300]

A plant produces fruit because it works to do so. Things don't just magically happen

Sure, it gets out its spade and rake and tills the soil. Then it waters itself. It sweats and strains until finally the seed breaks through the soil. It goes to the gym to workout and get strong. Ah! A thriving plant! Now it can flex its muscles and squirt out an apple.

Spare me. I really thought you were smarter than that. My mistake.

 

[Gideon300]

You

In Hebrews 3:18, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, so someone should not think that they can enter into God's rest while having the same sort of disobedience that prevented the Israelites from entering into God's rest. In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remain a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our works as God rested from His works, and we should be are to enter into that rest so that no one might fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so we should continue to follow Christ's example of keeping the Sabbath holy.


God said to keep the 7th day holy (Exodus 20:8-11).


God wanted His children to repent and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret a servant of God has warning against obeying Him and warning that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and it would again be absurd to interpret this as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. It is again absurd to act like God does want our obedience and is instead pleased by our disobedience.

We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of earning our righteousness in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), which makes it that much true that we can't earn our righteousness as the result of the works of the law that Galatians 5:4 is speaking about, yet it is also true that only the doers of the Law of God will be declared righteous (Romans 2:13), so there is a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be doers of it other than in order to earn it a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31).


The works that will get burned up are not the ones that are instructed by God's Word. The way to build on the foundation God's Word made flesh is by following his example of embodying God's Word, not by refusing to do that. The work that God does in us is by graciously teaching us to be doers of His law. Dead works are the ones that lead to death in disobedience to the Law of God, not the ones that the Bible repeatedly says lead to life in obedience to it.

Your usual confused mixture of grace and law. Never mind, you'll see one day. Likely after your life is over, but you will see.

 

[Soyeong]

You

Your usual confused mixture of grace and law. Never mind, you'll see one day. Likely after your life is over, but you will see.

The people in the Bible wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to obey His law (Psalm 119:29-39, Exodus 33:13, Titus 2:11-13), but you seem to want God to be gracious to you instead of teaching you to obey it.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Sure, it gets out its spade and rake and tills the soil. Then it waters itself. It sweats and strains until finally the seed breaks through the soil. It goes to the gym to workout and get strong. Ah! A thriving plant! Now it can flex its muscles and squirt out an apple.

Spare me. I really thought you were smarter than that. My mistake.

You really need to lose your abusive nature; it's not Christ-like. You mentioned somewhere else recently, spiritual work, but here you talk about physical labor.

 

[Gideon300]

You really need to lose your abusive nature; it's not Christ-like. You mentioned somewhere else recently, spiritual work, but here you talk about physical labor.

You are the one who said that plants work. I guess you failed to detect the note of sarcasm in my reply.

 

[Gideon300]

The people in the Bible wanted God to be gracious to them by teaching them to obey His law (Psalm 119:29-39, Exodus 33:13, Titus 2:11-13), but you seem to want God to be gracious to you instead of teaching you to obey it.

You really don't get it, I realise. For sure I need God's grace. It is what saves me. Jesus live out His life in me and through me. Remember His words? "Apart from me, you can do nothing". And that is what God considers all the efforts of self that are apart from Christ - NOTHING.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You are the one who said that plants work. I guess you failed to detect the note of sarcasm in my reply.

It's biophysics. Plants actually do work, you just don't see it.

 

[Gideon300]

It's biophysics. Plants actually do work, you just don't see it.

I suppose it depends on your definition of work. It's not mine, that's for sure. If you mean "work" as in function, that is different. Plants bear fruit according to the kind of plant. It's a picture, that Jesus used, of the Christian life. An apple tree branch does not produce fruit. It bears fruit. It's a world of difference.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I suppose it depends on your definition of work. It's not mine, that's for sure. If you mean "work" as in function, that is different. Plants bear fruit according to the kind of plant. It's a picture, that Jesus used, of the Christian life. An apple tree branch does not produce fruit. It bears fruit. It's a world of difference.

The apple tree actually does produce the fruit via biophysics.

 

[Soyeong]

You really don't get it, I realise. For sure I need God's grace. It is what saves me. Jesus live out His life in me and through me. Remember His words? "Apart from me, you can do nothing". And that is what God considers all the efforts of self that are apart from Christ - NOTHING.

In John 15:1-10, the way to abide in Christ is by following his commandments, so it is incorrect to think that his commandments are the works that are going to get burned up or that by following them we are doing self efforts that are apart from Christ. 1 John 2:6, those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so following his example of walking in obedience to the Law of God is not apart from Christ.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

obligated

I think “obligated” misses the heart of it. Jesus didn’t obey out of duty, but out of love and connection with the Father. Following Him isn’t about legalistic effort, it’s about staying rooted in Him so His life naturally flows through us.

 

[Soyeong]

I think “obligated” misses the heart of it. Jesus didn’t obey out of duty, but out of love and connection with the Father. Following Him isn’t about legalistic effort, it’s about staying rooted in Him so His life naturally flows through us.

In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so while I agree that would should obey out of love and connection with the Father, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't also obey out of duty. The reason why God gave His law was not in order to teach us how to have our own legalistic effort.