Controlling the eyes from lust

[Jesus_Leads]

Much of the "savage" world prior to colonialization did not wear tops. The women in South America, Africa, and the Polynesian islands were topless. Breasts were not considered sexual in these places during these times. The men also wore thongs. There are still a few places like this. However, Western men and women found that going topless was too sexual. While I think that going topless is extreme, I think the burden of guilt falls on the person feeling lust not the person showing extra skin (unless the person is being intentional/provocative).

I'm sorry but I think provocative dressing is wrong whether someone do it intentionally or not. What you are saying is "when a woman from Brazil come to India she'll draw lot of attention that's not her issue because it's ok in her country". That's a nono because she is making someone else sinning. My understanding is that there is one standard modesty and any saved woman would be guided by God to dress like that may be step by step but she'll reach that modest appearance in the end. Also there are men who intentionally look at a woman with lust no matter how modest she has dressed up in that case what you said may be applicable that the guilt will only fall on men. But if a woman says I dress like this because it's ok in my region and I don't carry any guilt that's not possible.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

Much of the "savage" world prior to colonialization did not wear tops. The women in South America, Africa, and the Polynesian islands were topless. Breasts were not considered sexual in these places during these times. The men also wore thongs. There are still a few places like this. However, Western men and women found that going topless was too sexual. While I think that going topless is extreme, I think the burden of guilt falls on the person feeling lust not the person showing extra skin (unless the person is being intentional/provocative).

You know that dressing is not like this a decade ago in our country. It has been changed by following films and celebrities. You know how good Indian women dressed back in days. And I don't see any reason for changing our cultural dressing but still things have changed and it changed in a bad way. And in past 2 years it has gone really worse that television channel show something equivalent to porn every 5 minutes. I have never seen inner wear advertisements this much exposed in our country since childhood. This is becoming new normal now like it's ok to dress this way in public there's nothing wrong in exposing the body a little bit. No my sister it's not normal no matter how many people get used to it, sin is sin.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

I would say that all people - including men - do it, but not all are lusting. Like the other day, I went to an exotic animal show where we were helping my husband's family sell stuff, and the vendor across from us was a GIANT lady with GIANT jugs who was wearing a blouse that basically let it all hang out. To make matters worse, right in the middle of the two was another small fat bubble, so it looked like there were three of them. I literally could not look in that whole direction without my eyes going straight there. And I know she saw me, too. Found out that literally nobody in my family could help but look, too. It was just so in your face. But there was definitely no lust lol.

I will say that if a guy does it to a woman who is wearing appropriate clothing then I find it creepy because it seems like a more intentional act then.

I have no problem with appropriate dressing.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

The idea that a woman can walk around with her breasts out without shame is utterly foolish. The vast majority of men, whether they will admit it or not, are aroused by exposed breasts, and a significant amount of women are too. It's grossly irresponsible to pretend otherwise.

hen she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.

No sane person can read Ezekiel 23 and be like "breasts aren't sexual!!!".

Yes that's what I'm saying. It's on man's nature to fall for these things and I don't think women can ever understand that.

 

[cinder]

The idea that a woman can walk around with her breasts out without shame is utterly foolish. The vast majority of men, whether they will admit it or not, are aroused by exposed breasts, and a significant amount of women are too. It's grossly irresponsible to pretend otherwise.

hen she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.

No sane person can read Ezekiel 23 and be like "breasts aren't sexual!!!".

A sane person who has seen topless tribes exist and show respect for the bond of marriage would have to ask is it the breasts that are sexual, or the caressing and fondling of the breasts that is sexual? I'm not going to debate that our culture has sexualized breasts because certainly in most western nations the breasts (at least women's breasts, bare chested men seem much more acceptable and much less sexually provocative in our culture) are considered a sexual part of the body. But I think it's debatable that they are inherently so in all cultures. The cold hard biological fact of breasts is that they're special glands for providing milk to babies and there isn't a logical reason (granted human being are not purely logical) why they would be any more inherently sexual than a cow's or goat's udders.

 

[cinder]

I'm sorry but I think provocative dressing is wrong whether someone do it intentionally or not. What you are saying is "when a woman from Brazil come to India she'll draw lot of attention that's not her issue because it's ok in her country". That's a nono because she is making someone else sinning. My understanding is that there is one standard modesty and any saved woman would be guided by God to dress like that may be step by step but she'll reach that modest appearance in the end. Also there are men who intentionally look at a woman with lust no matter how modest she has dressed up in that case what you said may be applicable that the guilt will only fall on men. But if a woman says I dress like this because it's ok in my region and I don't carry any guilt that's not possible.

I think you've got it backwards. It's not that it's ok for the Brazilian woman to run around topless in India because it's ok in her country (though she may need a good local friend to explain to her that it's not cool to do so). But rather that the visitor to her area of Brazil shouldn't think that all the topless women running around are being immodest or signaling sexual availability or interest.

No one is arguing that women shouldn't be modest. We're arguing that modesty is often culturally defined and therefore not an exact universal standard that can be applied to everyone. Though personally my general rule of thumb is cover everything between the shoulders and the knees (except maybe for swimwear).

 

[JohnDB]

Yes that's what I'm saying. It's on man's nature to fall for these things and I don't think women can ever understand that.

No...
Men don't have to fall for these things.
A woman doesn't cause anyone to sin by the way she is dressed.

No one can cause someone else to sin...that's got logical fallacy written all over it.

If I bake a cake and it looks inviting and tempting...and someone grabs at it with their bare hands destroying it...is that my fault, the cake's fault, or the glutton's fault?

 

[Jesus_Leads]

I think you've got it backwards. It's not that it's ok for the Brazilian woman to run around topless in India because it's ok in her country (though she may need a good local friend to explain to her that it's not cool to do so). But rather that the visitor to her area of Brazil shouldn't think that all the topless women running around are being immodest or signaling sexual availability or interest.

No one is arguing that women shouldn't be modest. We're arguing that modesty is often culturally defined and therefore not an exact universal standard that can be applied to everyone. Though personally my general rule of thumb is cover everything between the shoulders and the knees (except maybe for swimwear).

Well to me if a man of God is falling because of a women's dressing no matter what her culture defines modesty to be she has been a cause of sin and she will carry guilt. There's this man of God in my state who literally sees every girls as his own daughter, such a sweet person once went to USA or idk for sure but there he saw a girl wearing something inappropriate to church and he said "I was disturbed by that, if I a man of father age is disturbed by this what level of temptation would she cause to youngsters of her church, so dress modestly my daughters". It is after his message i realised no matter where you live a woman carry responsibility for what she wear. God has given most rules for humans also some rules for women and men seperately.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

No...
Men don't have to fall for these things.
A woman doesn't cause anyone to sin by the way she is dressed.

No one can cause someone else to sin...that's got logical fallacy written all over it.

If I bake a cake and it looks inviting and tempting...and someone grabs at it with their bare hands destroying it...is that my fault, the cake's fault, or the glutton's fault?

Yes one person can make another person sin by posing temptation. That's what satan has been doing all the time duh!.. he tempts believers to do something if they yield sin. Let's make it clear with your cake example. You said you made the cake tempting the intention of that cake is to tempt the person who sees it but if you have kept the cake in a safe place instead of putting it in a place making it look like anyone can eat it nobody is gonna touch it. And if a person eats the cake even after knowing it's yours, it will fall under stealing. In that case you won't carry any guilt because you made a cake that looks appealing to you but someone else misused it. But this example of yours can't be used for lust because God through apostle paul didn't say run away from baked cakes instead he said youthful lust so I have used your spoiled example to make my point valid now that's spoiled too just like your cake.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

I think you've got it backwards. It's not that it's ok for the Brazilian woman to run around topless in India because it's ok in her country (though she may need a good local friend to explain to her that it's not cool to do so). But rather that the visitor to her area of Brazil shouldn't think that all the topless women running around are being immodest or signaling sexual availability or interest.

No one is arguing that women shouldn't be modest. We're arguing that modesty is often culturally defined and therefore not an exact universal standard that can be applied to everyone. Though personally my general rule of thumb is cover everything between the shoulders and the knees (except maybe for swimwear).

And dear brother/sister you definitely can't use tribes and ancestors as an excuse to support being topless and carry no guilt. There are tribes out there which don't have any idea what marriage relationship is they will literally do intercourse like animals and there are tribes which practice cannibalism. Kindly think before choosing an example. It would be really great if you take examples from scripture

Much of the "savage" world prior to colonialization did not wear tops. The women in South America, Africa, and the Polynesian islands were topless. Breasts were not considered sexual in these places during these times. The men also wore thongs. There are still a few places like this. However, Western men and women found that going topless was too sexual. While I think that going topless is extreme, I think the burden of guilt falls on the person feeling lust not the person showing extra skin (unless the person is being intentional/provocative).

 

[cinder]

Well to me if a man of God is falling because of a women's dressing no matter what her culture defines modesty to be she has been a cause of sin and she will carry guilt. It is after his message i realised no matter where you live a woman carry responsibility for what she wear.

Yes one person can make another person sin by posing temptation. That's what satan has been doing all the time duh!.. he tempts believers to do something if they yield sin.

By this logic, a beautiful woman had better never leave her house. She's almost guaranteed to pose a temptation to some guy out there who likes beautiful women a bit too much. How evil of her.

Or maybe it makes more sense for everyone to take responsibility for themselves (so yeah, everyone should dress modestly and not oogle other people, even if they're dressed like they're asking for it) and use the standard of a generic average person in their time and place when considering how their choices will affect others.

 

[Lanolin]

you can wear special glasses that stop you from looking at women and lusting after them

I think they are called 'Ray Bans' or something like that

If you are having trouble with your eyes, I'd recommend seeing an optometrist.

 

[JTB]

"You can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can keep it from making a nest in your beard."

Keep working at focusing on the eyes from the start. It'll get better. Nobody starts out perfect.

Exactly. It's a habit, and given enough time habits will change

 

[Lanolin]

On going topless...dont generally do it here as its too cold, but sometimes its necessary to get your boob out to feed a baby.

A lot of mothers try and do it discreetly in public (some room set aside for that purpose) as its not really that fun to do it in the toilets.

 

[Lanolin]

apparently there is a nudist park somewhere in the suburbs near me (its called a naturist club) and there are some designated nudist beaches, but in general, here ladies dont walk round naked.

I found that even clothed, some men can be rude and stare at you like you are a piece of meat. I also think for many women its actually harder to be beautiful and attractive because its like you are a bone to a dog. There is nothing much a bone can do except be hidden away in the ground, but we women actually need to go out and do stuff.

So maybe its on the dog to control himself and stop drooling.

Or I know..go to Jesus, look to the cross and die to your flesh. You'll be free and then wont have this problem. If Jesus can get rid of sin, then its likely that you wont sin as well because well, thats the miracle of believing.

Recall that when Jesus went to stay with Mary and Martha he was teaching them, he wasnt ogling them. Then some people were like why is Jesus friends with a sinful woman? eg Mary Magdalene. And He was like shes been forgiven.

I think some were expecting Jesus and Mary to be like...they could only ever be together for one reason. she's a prostitute! Why is he even eating with her? Well they were wrong.

 

[JohnDB]

Yes one person can make another person sin by posing temptation. That's what satan has been doing all the time duh!.. he tempts believers to do something if they yield sin. Let's make it clear with your cake example. You said you made the cake tempting the intention of that cake is to tempt the person who sees it but if you have kept the cake in a safe place instead of putting it in a place making it look like anyone can eat it nobody is gonna touch it. And if a person eats the cake even after knowing it's yours, it will fall under stealing. In that case you won't carry any guilt because you made a cake that looks appealing to you but someone else misused it. But this example of yours can't be used for lust because God through apostle paul didn't say run away from baked cakes instead he said youthful lust so I have used your spoiled example to make my point valid now that's spoiled too just like your cake.

Do you even understand logical fallacy?

So because I didn't cover my cake I'm now the guilty person?

You have just claimed that God is guilty of sin by making women beautiful by extension.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

By this logic, a beautiful woman had better never leave her house. She's almost guaranteed to pose a temptation to some guy out there who likes beautiful women a bit too much. How evil of her.

Or maybe it makes more sense for everyone to take responsibility for themselves (so yeah, everyone should dress modestly and not oogle other people, even if they're dressed like they're asking for it) and use the standard of a generic average person in their time and place when considering how their choices will affect others.

I never talked about girl's beauty. Idk why you're totally Changing the topic. A beautiful girl isn't the problem here, you literally suported girls going topless. That is the problem don't divert from the subject.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

Do you even understand logical fallacy?

So because I didn't cover my cake I'm now the guilty person?

You have just claimed that God is guilty of sin by making women beautiful by extension.

Wowww lol why are you both taking the term beauty now. Beauty isn't the problem here. And I said you cake example can't be used for this because desiring a cake is stealing but woman is different. Just don't try to change the topic.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

Lo

you can wear special glasses that stop you from looking at women and lusting after them

I think they are called 'Ray Bans' or something like that

If you are having trouble with your eyes, I'd recommend seeing an optometrist.

I said I am not lusting. I don't enjoy it if you can't understand the problem it's ok. Thanx for trying to help though.

 

[Jesus_Leads]

Exactly. It's a habit, and given enough time habits will change

Ya totally agree on that and I'm trying on it.