Confusion about Sodom and Gomorrah

seekingonlytruth60 · Aug 26, 2023

I understand the story of Sodom and agree homosexuality is sin
I cannot find answers to these scriptures and hope a brother or sister can help me
I am uncomfortable asking my pastor or anyone in Church

Genesis 19:4-5 NIV:4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.

My research always has articles saying it doesn't really mean every male yet the scripture makes it clear with 3 steps...all the men plus every part of the city plus young and old .Is it teaching that every male in Sodom became homosexual rapists including the men engaged to the daughters of Lot?
Do most of the men become heterosexuals 'after going back to their wives and children?
Was it a case of mass demon possession?

6 Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, 7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.”

Lot knowing the people of Sodom...why then would he offer his daughters to homosexual men? its common knowledge homosexuals have zero interest in females...its like offering meat to a vegetarian.....why is this scripture overlooked? is it possible the majority of the men were heterosexuals' and the rape which is a violent act was to degrade and break the spirit of the "men" .......this was preformed at that time in history as a severe degrading punishment
Was it that God gave them over to homosexual acts like in Romans1?

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NIV :49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

This scripture I understand why it is ignored as it shows us including myself guilty of some of these sins such as greed, especially overfed{gluttony}
This scripture does include detestable things which would be homosexual acts and outside of marriage heterosexuals' acts.Most give an offering of 10 percent but do they care about "the poor and needy" the children that starve to death every 3 minutes? choosing not to store there treasure in heaven but rather bank investments or property

I understand we should concentrate only on what Jesus taught and draw closer to Him but I keep hearing about this sin of homosexuality as the worst or only real sin and the hate it creates in the hearts of Christians.All scripture is the word of God and contains truth and must make sense and not what we want it to say

Thank you very much for reading and i look forward to hopefully getting some explanation of truth and understanding

Ted01 · Aug 26, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

If you disagree with all the articles that you've reviewed... would you even be open to discussing with others who might agree with the articles... on this one point?

Komentaja · Aug 26, 2023

As odd as it may seem, "all" doesn't always mean "all" in the Bible.

Few examples:

Matthew 2:3
And King Herod having heard this, was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. [My comment: was all of Jerusalem disturbed?]

Mark 1:5
And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. [My comment: Did ENTIRE Judea get baptized and repent? Doesn't seem like it from the rest of the New Testament where the Jews are persecuting Christians and yelling to crucify Christ]

John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and ALL the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and ALL MEN come to him.

There are many other examples like these.

Tempest · Aug 26, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

Bolds below the scripture are mine

I think the arrogance gluttony and lack of care to the poor and strangers were the beginning of Sodom's downfall.. Extreme self centeredness. Hating ones neighbor.

Have you read some of the stories of the treatment of visitors by the cities of the plain?

"
"The thoughtful Sodomites provided guest houses in their city, each with beds of a single standard size. When a guest came looking for lodgings, they would make sure that the bed fit perfectly. If he was shorter than the bed, his hosts would stretch him out until he fit. Should he be too tall for the bed, they would hack off his feet.4

An unfortunate beggar once wandered into Sodom and began going from door to door, begging for alms. To his surprise, every householder greeted him warmly and gave him a coin.

Overjoyed, he rushed to the nearest store, hoping to purchase some food, his first meal in days. But the shopkeeper turned him away. The same thing repeated itself wherever the man proffered his coins. Eventually the poor man expired from hunger. The clever Sodomites, who knew that this would happen, came running to retrieve their coins, upon which they had each thoughtfully marked their names"

https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...odom-and-Gomorrah-Cities-Destroyed-by-G-d.htm

I read somewhere (?) that they put visitors in cages that were on pulleys, hoisted the cages and left those poor people to starve to death.

Omegatime · Aug 26, 2023

About how sins brought destruction is not the only thing in play and who was doing what. Once the decision to destroy was made by the Lord the angels were only considering saving the righteous. Probably why one city was saved out of five

seekingonlytruth60 · Aug 26, 2023

Ted01 said:

Hi I never said I disagree but am trying to understand why scripture is not taken as written.....lets say the scripture really doesn't mean all men....then we can say whatever we want....maybe it was one homosexual that went to rape the men....or maybe just 2 men or 4 men surrounded the house.....then homosexuality would have nothing to do with the destruction of Sodom because only 1 to 4 rapists out of all of Sodom does not make it the wicked city worthy of destruction for that reason.

seekingonlytruth60 · Aug 27, 2023

Komentaja said:

Hi...Yes those are good examples and I understand your point.. and it can be inferred that the land of Judaea all the people of Jerusalem were baptized
All the scriptures you provided I believe are teaching that ALL is those that God giveth as taught in John 6:44-45 so the scriptures would be accurate as written
John 6:44-45 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Therefore, those who are drawn are all that do in fact come to Jesus.
Sodom is describing men so wicked God had to destroy not just the wicked men but most likely the women and children of Sodom and the point I was trying to discuss was based on the scriptures I provided it does not describe homosexual rapists but hetrosexual men or mostly hetrosexual.Is it wrong to use common sense when reading the scriptures?thank you and I welcome comments as I am trying to understand this story

seekingonlytruth60 · Aug 27, 2023

Tempest said:

Bolds below the scripture are mine

I think the arrogance gluttony and lack of care to the poor and strangers were the beginning of Sodom's downfall.. Extreme self centeredness. Hating ones neighbor.

Have you read some of the stories of the treatment of visitors by the cities of the plain?

"
"The thoughtful Sodomites provided guest houses in their city, each with beds of a single standard size. When a guest came looking for lodgings, they would make sure that the bed fit perfectly. If he was shorter than the bed, his hosts would stretch him out until he fit. Should he be too tall for the bed, they would hack off his feet.4

An unfortunate beggar once wandered into Sodom and began going from door to door, begging for alms. To his surprise, every householder greeted him warmly and gave him a coin.

Overjoyed, he rushed to the nearest store, hoping to purchase some food, his first meal in days. But the shopkeeper turned him away. The same thing repeated itself wherever the man proffered his coins. Eventually the poor man expired from hunger. The clever Sodomites, who knew that this would happen, came running to retrieve their coins, upon which they had each thoughtfully marked their names"

https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...odom-and-Gomorrah-Cities-Destroyed-by-G-d.htm

I read somewhere (?) that they put visitors in cages that were on pulleys, hoisted the cages and left those poor people to starve to death.

Hi...I have to agree with you the downfall of Sodom was the sins described in Ezekiel 16:49-50 which includes unnatural homosexual and heterosexuals' lifestyle of sexual sins.I never read those stories thanks for sharing.Why do you think Sodom and Gomorrah was taught that it was homosexuality that caused the destruction

presidente · Aug 27, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

I think you are too focused on orientation. Mens raised in that perverted culture might have engaged in sex with men, too. The obsession with people having a 'sexual orientation' is recent, from recent decades. Maybe you can't relate because the idea of having sex with a man is gross. It's good if you have those kinds of sexual mores. Some of us still do. But men raised in an idolatrous, sexually perverse culture might not have had the same scruples.

There are sometimes where 'everyone' doesn't literally mean everyone. It's pretty obvious that Lot wasn't trying to get in there and rape anyone and he was a man in the city.

There are many sexually immoral individuals today who say that they are 'bi', and Sodom may have had some people like that. There are also men who have been molested as children who like women, but struggle with the homosexual stuff, too, because of being molested. Some boys were molested later in Greek culture, who would also have wives. Sodom might have been worse about that stuff.

It is unlikely that any culture before the 20th century developed the modern concept of 'sexual orientation' the way that it has developed in the west, with the presupposition that some men are born gay and won't have sex with women. A man's body responding to a woman's body aligns with the hard wiring, too.

Lot probably had normal sexual interests, also. He probably didn't understand the interests and inclinations of the perverts he was dealing with.

God gave men over to various lusts, including men lusting after men, because of idolatry. If the men in the city weren't degenerates, then having sex with a man wouldn't have been a consideration. But they, and their culture, was so perverted that they would consider such a thing. Men having sex with men is a horrible sin. The idea of 'sexual orientation' as we hear it today is a modern concept, not some kind of universal truth.

Exekiel 16 focuses on one area of sin in Sodom, but that doesn't mean that it is okay to have sex with angels, for men to have sex with men (which is what the visitors appeared to be), or to rape angels, or for men to rape other men (which is what the visitors appeared to be.)

I never heard anyone say that homosexuality is the worst sin. There were many death penalty sins in the Old Testament. Men having sex with men was one of them. But so was men having sex with animals. So was sex with one's neighbor's wife. Murder was another death penalty sin.

seekingonlytruth60 · Aug 27, 2023

Omegatime said:

Hi...Yes your right the destruction of Sodom was sealed By God before the attempted homosexual rape or attempted rape to degrade yet so many focus only on that part of the story....what do you think of inhospitality as a major reason for the destruction?
Ezekiel 16:49-50 does point at inhospitality as well
Matthew 11 20 Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.[e] For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

Here Jesus is warning that disbelief and rejecting His message was worse than the sins of Sodom. Suggesting the Homosexual and heterosexuals' wicked people of Sodom would have "repented in sackcloth and ashes"

seekingonlytruth60 · Aug 27, 2023

Hi thank you for sharing your thoughts but please address the other question i posted

Genesis 19:6-8
6 Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, 7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.”

Lot knowing the people of Sodom...why then would he offer his daughters to homosexual men? its common knowledge homosexuals have zero interest in females...its like offering meat to a vegetarian.....why is this scripture overlooked? is it possible the majority of the men were heterosexuals' and the rape which is a violent act was to degrade and break the spirit of the "men" .......this was preformed at that time in history as a severe degrading punishment
Was it that God gave them over to homosexual acts like in Romans1?

Komentaja · Aug 27, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

Hi...Yes those are good examples and I understand your point.. and it can be inferred that the land of Judaea all the people of Jerusalem were baptized
All the scriptures you provided I believe are teaching that ALL is those that God giveth as taught in John 6:44-45 so the scriptures would be accurate as written
John 6:44-45 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Therefore, those who are drawn are all that do in fact come to Jesus.
Sodom is describing men so wicked God had to destroy not just the wicked men but most likely the women and children of Sodom and the point I was trying to discuss was based on the scriptures I provided it does not describe homosexual rapists but hetrosexual men or mostly hetrosexual.Is it wrong to use common sense when reading the scriptures?thank you and I welcome comments as I am trying to understand this story

They were clearly married, and were into men. So they are like many sodomites today, anything goes. Men, women, animals..

Adstar · Aug 27, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

There are Men who have wives and children but who also engage in homosexual activity.. Do you know about Bi-sexuals who engage in sexual relations with both genders.. There are normally straight males who go to prison and start to engage in homosexual relationships all the while thinking of themselves as heterosexuals who engage with other men simply because no woman is available.. So with all that in mind you could end up with a situation that a town could end up with all the men engaging in sexual relationships with both woman and men.. Effectively becoming a town of bi-sexual men in practice..

Again you seem to be unaware of the Bi-sexual possibilities.. The majority of the men may not have been strictly homosexual..

Maybe God had given them over to depraved minds.. But if you note the context of that scripture there is always a reason why God gives people over to depravity..

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NIV :49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

Click to expand...

Valid points..

That's a misconception as far as the Biblical Christianity is concerned.. The sexual act of homosexuality is a sin just as adultery is a sin or fornication is a sin.. It may seem to an unbeliever that Christians are fixated on homosexuality but the reason why some Christians talk about Homosexuality is because they are reacting to and trying to counter the gay pride movement..

The gay pride movement seeks to convince homosexuals that their sin is not sin, that they do not need to repent of it or seek the atonement of The LORD Jesus for the forgiveness of their sin.. To Christians this means that if the gay pride movement is successful ( and it has been successful in the minds of many homosexuals and others ) them this will remove homosexuals from seeking the atonement of Jesus and thus remove the opportunity they have for salvation.. So the gay pride movement that tells homosexuals that their OK and that their life style is good are actually leading homosexuals into the eternal lake of fire.. While Christians who are telling homosexuals that their sexual acts are an abomination to God are actually seeking to save homosexuals from the eternal lake of fire..

Thank you for reading and considering my reply..

JohnDB · Aug 27, 2023

First off only Lot recognized The Angels of the Lord....nobody else.

Secondly Abraham had questioned God about Sodom as God told Abraham what was going to happen to Sodom.

Lot sat in the gate of Sodom....he was a city elder. Meaning that Sodom was not a lawless city. They had guards and police and regulations. For a huge group to come after Lot's guests this way....meant that EVERYONE knew what was going to happen and did nothing or cared. No police were called and likely some outside Lot's door were the city guards and police.

Then there's more recent studies that suggest that over 80% of homosexuals are really bisexual....meaning that it truly is a choice of lifestyle despite claims otherwise.

Then finally....it was a form of judgment by the men of Sodom on whom they perceived to be simple visitors to the city they felt judged by. (God does have the right to judge and men do not)
So as a punishment they were going to rape the visitors even though they were in Lot's house and under his protection.

Lot offered his daughters....which was a valuable prize and sought after thing. But the men of Sodom had their feelings hurt and wanted revenge by means of rape.

Canaan, the land Sodom was in, was full of stories of urbanization and especially de-urbanization. Entire cities would evaporate and disappear after slowly building up by clans moving and settling into an area. Some because of disease and some because of lack of water. But Sodom had water "well watered plain towards Sodom" . Lot was wealthy because God had blessed him while he was a nephew of Abraham. Lot refused to apologize to Abraham over the earlier quarreling.

God visited Lot in Sodom and they hated God and wished to rape him......
Guess what? Didn't work out for the whole city.
And stubborn Lot?
He ended up sleeping with his own daughters whose descendants harass and destabilize the middle east to this day.

Lanolin · Aug 27, 2023

Are there cities like Sodom and Gomorrah today.
Like what would be the worst examples.

The kind of cities where if you were a guest in them everyone would want to rape you? I know in history there was one called the Hellhole of the Pacific, and every sailor/new migrant that visited would just be set upon, they'd be warmly greeted and then horribly abused because they were fresh meat.

I have been to churches and workplaces like that. It was only a few visits or a couple of days in and then you'd get propositioned and harassed. It would not be safe to go out alone at night. It wouldnt even be safe to go out during the day.

Lanolin · Aug 27, 2023

In the story, Lots daughters were engaged? Or married, so why did he offer them, or was that a ruse.
It seemed he was more, my daughters are virgins. Perverts seem to want virgins it didnt seem to actually matter what 'orientation' a person is.

It would seem in sodoms culture anyone new or young was fair game. Otherwise he would have offered his wife, or himself. If I was the daughter I would have been horrified, but people actually do offer up their own children/offspring for all manner of things and sell them out and throw them under the bus.

In places like Thailand where sex trafficking is the norm, parents sell their own children, and of course this used to happen in slave cultures, and it happens in many schools, univerisities, the new young freshmen/recruits are hazed or told to be a slave to the older students...if they want to fit in

GaryA · Aug 27, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

What you are missing here is the extent of the moral context. What these men wanted to do was so heinous - one of the things that God calls an abomination - that Lot was trying to avoid even allowing it to happen. By "offering his daughters", Lot was saying in effect:

"If you must do something, at least keep it within the confines of 'normal' - [please] do not perform this abomination before God."

(The word 'normal' meaning 'according to the proper use that God ordained'.)

Today, the moral context has been "softened" to the point that we (as a society, and - sometimes - as Christians) make jokes about it. This ought not be. It should be so abhorrent to us that we do not give it the slightest inkling of 'glory'. But, we have been "conditioned" to "accept" it at some level in our thinking.

In Lot's day, just how much of an abomination it really was was very well understood. It was unthinkable for any right-thinking person.

You have to grasp just how serious this was in the eyes of Lot to understand why he suggested something like that...

ZARY · Aug 27, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

I understand the story of Sodom and agree homosexuality is sin
I cannot find answers to these scriptures and hope a brother or sister can help me
I am uncomfortable asking my pastor or anyone in Church

Genesis 19:4-5 NIV:4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.

My research always has articles saying it doesn't really mean every male yet the scripture makes it clear with 3 steps...all the men plus every part of the city plus young and old .Is it teaching that every male in Sodom became homosexual rapists including the men engaged to the daughters of Lot?
Do most of the men become heterosexuals 'after going back to their wives and children?
Was it a case of mass demon possession?

6 Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, 7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.”

Lot knowing the people of Sodom...why then would he offer his daughters to homosexual men? its common knowledge homosexuals have zero interest in females...its like offering meat to a vegetarian.....why is this scripture overlooked? is it possible the majority of the men were heterosexuals' and the rape which is a violent act was to degrade and break the spirit of the "men" .......this was preformed at that time in history as a severe degrading punishment
Was it that God gave them over to homosexual acts like in Romans1?

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NIV :49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

This scripture I understand why it is ignored as it shows us including myself guilty of some of these sins such as greed, especially overfed{gluttony}
This scripture does include detestable things which would be homosexual acts and outside of marriage heterosexuals' acts.Most give an offering of 10 percent but do they care about "the poor and needy" the children that starve to death every 3 minutes? choosing not to store there treasure in heaven but rather bank investments or property

I understand we should concentrate only on what Jesus taught and draw closer to Him but I keep hearing about this sin of homosexuality as the worst or only real sin and the hate it creates in the hearts of Christians.All scripture is the word of God and contains truth and must make sense and not what we want it to say

Thank you very much for reading and i look forward to hopefully getting some explanation of truth and understanding

ZARY · Aug 27, 2023

So this is wrong. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible were not destroyed because of homosexuality. In fact, the Bible tells us exactly why they were destroyed. Ezekiel 16:49 says, and I quote, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom. They were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned, and they did not help the poor and the needy.” According to the Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, not because of homosexuality, but because they were inhospitable, they were selfish. They didn’t care for the orphan and the stranger. In fact, if you know the story, they were destroyed because a gang of men came to rape two angels when they appeared at Lot’s house. I find it really interesting that we Christians continually misinterpret stories that have a word that convicts us to be stories that convict those people that we’re afraid of. Christians are often inhospitable and unwelcoming to strangers, but it’s far easier for us to make this story about homosexuals than to own up to that.
My Opinion and clear understanding. i hope it helps

GaryA · Aug 27, 2023

seekingonlytruth60 said:

It is not about hate in the hearts of Christians - it is about Christians having a proper understanding of just how much God hates it.

When God created everything, he put into place - according to His perfect wisdom - the "proper use" of the male body and of the female body. The sin of homosexuality violates the "proper use" of the body.

Confusion about Sodom and Gomorrah

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