Concerning the gift of tongues

[Lafftur]

This discussion about the validity of ongoing claims of speaking in supernatural languages is rather similar to discussions on bigfoot blogs.

You have one side asserting that the creatures exist and are roaming across the world. The other side contends that if true there would be much physical evidence of their existence and no need for debate.

The pro-bigfoot side will maintain that the evidence of bigfoot is "everywhere" and is just being ignored. They will also declare that they do not need to prove that Bigfoot exist and demand that those who doubt the existence of Bigfoot should prove that they do not exist.

If you want to see it yourself. Squatchdetective.com Beware it is just as mind numbing as this discussion.

Did the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit (tongues and such) exist during the 1st Century, certainly.
The Bible plainly states that they did and the world was turned upside down.

Is it a ongoing event today, certainly not.

And those that insist that it is ongoing are bringing ridicule on the cause of Christ.


Isaiah 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord

There is nothing reasonable about such claims.

Oh dear, @TrustandObey

you’re at a fork in the road… time to face the Truth and make a decision that can determine how life-giving you will be for the Body of Christ while we wait for His return….

The Holy Spirit is on the Earth right now working in and through believers all over the planet preparing the Bride of Christ for the Bridegroom’s return…

It’s time to cooperate with the Holy Spirit and let Him flow through you with His gifts so you and others will be ready, without spot or blemish.

Cast off all that legalistic Pharisee mindsets that resist the Holy Spirit… be free, in the Name of Jesus Christ, amen!

 

[Blain]

Doesn’t hurt to “stir up” the gift like Paul told Timothy.

When I first got the gift of tongues, it was only one word over and over…. so, I asked for more and then many words and different dialects began to flow…

I remember laughing so hard when an Asian dialect like Chinese started coming out of me…

I thought it sounded so funny, I just laughed and loved how wonderful it feels to have the Holy Spirit speaking and flowing through me… so life-giving!

For me, with the gift of tongues came a deep desire to understand what the Holy Spirit was saying…. I began praying and asking for the gift of interpretation of tongues… but, only once have I experienced interpretation.

Someone was leading worship and began to sing in tongues, my natural ears heard him in tongues but my spiritual ears heard him in English and I was completely in awe at how poetic and eloquent the words were…. amazing.

Now, I just simply go back and forth between speaking in tongues and speaking English for my prayer time…

I encourage everyone to ask for all the gifts and see what the Holy Spirit will do!

To feel the holy spirit flowing and speaking through you.... I want that

 

[Lafftur]

To feel the holy spirit flowing and speaking through you.... I want that

Just ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Spirit and keep on asking until you receive….

It’s the Father’s Will to give the Holy Spirit to those that ask, no need to beg, just simply ask because you know your Father loves you and wants the very best for you and you want to be pleasing in His sight, empowered to witness for Jesus Christ, and ready for Christ’s return.

“…how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask continue to ask Him!”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.11.13&version=AMP

 

[Blain]

Just ask the Heavenly Father for the Holy Spirit and keep on asking until you receive….

It’s the Father’s Will to give the Holy Spirit to those that ask, no need to beg, just simply ask because you know your Father loves you and wants the very best for you and you want to be pleasing in His sight, empowered to witness for Jesus Christ, and ready for Christ’s return.

“…how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask continue to ask Him!”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.11.13&version=AMP

Yes I will do that and if you could pray for me to recieve it as well I would greatly appreciate it. but you know in a way I know what your talking about with the holy spirit you know when I write my poems it feels like a current of electricity is flowing through me and the words just pour out on their own I never know what I am going to write but once I start they just come out

 

[GWH]

And yet you cannot disprove it just make snarky comments, the verse Dino provided clearly shows the gift is still ongoing and you have yet to be able to disprove it just admit that you have nothing to counter it instead of comparing this discussion to bigfoot who does not exist
by all means prove us wrong if you can

In order to arrive at a correct understanding of a doctrine it is necessary to harmonize
all relevant verses rather than engage in proof-texting (cf. TOJ #3&4).
This hermeneutical method is called systematic or dialectical theology, which few do,
but when it is done, the HS speaks through you most fully.

 

[Blain]

In order to arrive at a correct understanding of a doctrine it is necessary to harmonize
all relevant verses rather than engage in proof-texting (cf. TOJ #3&4).
This hermeneutical method is called systematic or dialectical theology, which few do.

What relevant verses do you think coinside with it? I agree that we must harmonize the scriptures. The word of God is amazing in the fact that each verse connects to another in some way or form

 

[GWH]

What relevant verses do you think coinside with it? I agree that we must harmonize the scriptures. The word of God is amazing in the fact that each verse connects to another in some way or form

Wow! Your like happened before I finished editing/adding the last phrase.

In CC discussions, half of the relevant verses are usually cited by the pros and the other half by the cons
instead of both halves by all truthseekers.

IMO, when all Scripture is harmonized, glossalalia is a problematic but permissible gift.
It is problematic when done in church meetings without interpretation (or by women?) per 1 Cor.14,
and when viewed as a sign of Spirit baptism that every believer should have/do/want (1 Cor. 12:13)
or as a sign of Spirit filling (1 Cor. 13:8-13, Gal. 5:22, Eph. 3:14-19).

 

[Blain]

Wow! Your like happened before I finished editing/adding the last phrase.

In CC discussions, half of the relevant verses are usually cited by the pros and the other half by the cons
instead of both halves by all truthseekers.

IMO, when all Scripture is harmonized, glossalalia is a problematic but permissible gift.
It is problematic when done in church meetings without interpretation (or by women?) per 1 Cor.14,
and when viewed as a sign of Spirit baptism that every believer should have/do/want (1 Cor. 12:13)
or as a sign of Spirit filling (1 Cor. 13:8-13, Gal. 5:22, Eph. 3:14-19).

I wish we lived close to each other I would love to do a bible study with you

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

And if the Spirit decides to give you tongues, it won't be something you need to "practice, to get better" at. These are spiritual gifts from God.. having to "practice" it immediately means they are false, and completely man made...

You don't really need to "practice" it. It's just those who newly receive it tend to abuse it by showing it off loudly and overacting, making a show of it. But most settle down and learn not to abuse it and show it off depending on how mature the rest of the church is to emulate. This is why I don't attend churches that aren't disciplined and mature in the use of gifts of the Holy Spirit.


🚟

 

[GWH]

I wish we lived close to each other I would love to do a bible study with you

Well, the miracle of the internet makes that possible, and my entire BS is on our website <truthseekersfellowship.com>.
Also, CC discussion is a Bible study when done systematically.

The study of tongues typically begins with Acts 2:1-13, which says three things: v.4 says each disciple spoke a foreign language,
v.8&11 say each foreigner heard his own language being spoken, and v.13 says some heard only incoherent words.
The meaning that was conveyed is not stated, but Peter (in 2:14-21) stated that the event fulfilled the prophecy in Joel 2:28-32, which ended with "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved". Peter (in 2:22-36) applied that statement (along with Psa. 16:8-11 and Psa. 110:1) to Jesus.

When the people who were present asked what they should do, Peter told them to repent and be (water) baptized in the name of Jesus, Messiah, and they also would receive the gift (baptism) of the HS. He said this promise is for all whom the Lord will call, and he continued warning them to be saved. About 3,000 people accepted his message, but we are not told how many did not. In 2:42-47 Luke wrote that the converts devoted themselves daily to learning the apostles' teaching, to fellowship, breaking bread and prayer in the temple courts and in their homes. He said that wonders and signs were performed by the apostles, but what they were is not specified, but Acts 5:12-16 indicates that the main miracle was healing sick people. All of the believers shared their possessions and sold some things to provide for those who were poor, which is described more fully in Acts 4:32-37.

References to Peter and other believers including David being filled with the HS and preaching were made by Luke in Acts 4:8, 25 & 31 without mention of tongues. The next mentions of tongues are in Acts 10:46 and 19:6, where it is unclear whether the glossalalia was foreign languages.

 

[studier]

and my entire BS is on our website

This is the problem with acronyms.

 

[Blain]

Well, the miracle of the internet makes that possible, and my entire BS is on our website <truthseekersfellowship.com>.
Also, CC discussion is a Bible study when done systematically.

The study of tongues typically begins with Acts 2:1-13, which says three things: v.4 says each disciple spoke a foreign language,
v.8&11 say each foreigner heard his own language being spoken, and v.13 says some heard only incoherent words.
The meaning that was conveyed is not stated, but Peter (in 2:14-21) stated that the event fulfilled the prophecy in Joel 2:28-32, which ended with "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved". Peter (in 2:22-36) applied that statement (along with Psa. 16:8-11 and Psa. 110:1) to Jesus.

When the people who were present asked what they should do, Peter told them to repent and be (water) baptized in the name of Jesus, Messiah, and they also would receive the gift (baptism) of the HS. He said this promise is for all whom the Lord will call, and he continued warning them to be saved. About 3,000 people accepted his message, but we are not told how many did not. In 2:42-47 Luke wrote that the converts devoted themselves daily to learning the apostles' teaching, to fellowship, breaking bread and prayer in the temple courts and in their homes. He said that wonders and signs were performed by the apostles, but what they were is not specified, but Acts 5:12-16 indicates that the main miracle was healing sick people. All of the believers shared their possessions and sold some things to provide for those who were poor, which is described more fully in Acts 4:32-37.

References to Peter and other believers including David being filled with the HS and preaching were made by Luke in Acts 4:8, 25 & 31 without mention of tongues. The next mentions of tongues are in Acts 10:46 and 19:6, where it is unclear whether the glossalalia was foreign languages.

Yeah I was wondering if there is a case to be made for what is percieved to be gibberish like incoherient words I have heard some do that and others speak hebrew when speaking in tongues

 

[Blain]

This is the problem with acronyms.

yeah for a second I thought it menat something else

 

[CS1]

Its the question how someone read and interprete the scripture.
I wish to you a happy ressuraction feast!

Amen, Maranatha! Christ has risen—He has risen indeed! Knowing the context and authorial intent is foundational in proper hermeneutics. Your understanding of Jeol's chapter 2 fails to take what Peteer said in the Book of Acts in content to what Joel wrote.

You went on some Incohearent babbling umbo jumbo about cloven tongues. Which was explained to you, but you did not even respond.

 

[studier]

yeah for a second I thought it menat something else

For a second? I'm still wondering.

 

[ocean]

So, we accept tongues because other things are also abused, or we look for the truth in all things?

Also, I don't need tongues to buy a loaf of bread.

FWIW, I'm not a strict cessationist as I was originally taught to be. I have some issues in the Text with that position. However, I have been around a lot of abuse of it and am very guarded about its typical open use and supposed proof of the Spirit.

Frankly, I would have every reason to turn away from Christianity if I were to judge Christ by (sadly) a good number of people calling themselves 'saved'. However, as scripture states, God is good and Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. We are actually not supposed to compare ourselves to other believers, but should walk in integrity and faith by the Holy Spirit, sent by God, in order to help us do so.

We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise. II Cor. 10:12

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! II Cor. 13:5

But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. Galatians 6:4

We accept what the Bible says about tongues, coincidentally where we will find the truth.

 

[wolfwint]

Amen, Maranatha! Christ has risen—He has risen indeed! Knowing the context and authorial intent is foundational in proper hermeneutics. Your understanding of Jeol's chapter 2 fails to take what Peteer said in the Book of Acts in content to what Joel wrote.

You went on some Incohearent babbling umbo jumbo about cloven tongues. Which was explained to you, but you did not even respond.

Yes, you explained, but not convinced.
It is not new that people and groups exegeting the scripture to defend their own made believe and doctrines.
This will end when the Lord will finnish it.

 

[studier]

Frankly, I would have every reason to turn away from Christianity if I were to judge Christ by (sadly) a good number of people calling themselves 'saved'. However, as scripture states, God is good and Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. We are actually not supposed to compare ourselves to other believers, but should walk in integrity and faith by the Holy Spirit, sent by God, in order to help us do so.

Such has always been the case as far as I can tell in and out of the Text. For much of my early life I recall all the talk of the hypocrite christians that [supposedly] made others want nothing to do with Christianity. I understood the professed sentiment then and still do. As you suggest, it's the Truth that matters. Some of the [pseudo] tongues stuff and dog-barking Spirit is enough IMO to turn many away.

 

[CS1]

So how you have the Holy Spirit, if you are not baptised with the Holy Spirit?

LOL this why you need to read your Bible in context to the subject matter which you fail to do time and time again because of your hate and bias. THe Holy Spirit in The Old Testament as your were shown in the Word of God by many here in including myself.

The Holy Spirit coming to live in the Beleiver is what Jesus was talking about in John chaprer 14 through 16.

You use Joel 2 so much you fail to ask why did Joel says 2:28-29

“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

The Holy Spirit empowerment came upon Kings, Priest, Judges, Prophets The word Holy Spirit is not used to describe the third person of the trinity.

"Spirit of God" or "Spirit of the Lord".


Who is known by what HE did as seen in these scriptures :

The Spirit came upon certain judges, warriors, and prophets in a way that gave them extraordinary power: for example, Joshua (Numbers 27:18), Othniel (Judges 3:10), Gideon (Judges 6:34), Samson (Judges 13:25; 14:6), and Saul (1 Samuel 10:9, 10). However, the Spirit later departed from Saul because of his disobedience (1 Samuel 16:14).


This was not the case for all as Joel was writing about. However, That was going to changewhich did on the day of Pentacost as Peter confirmed. And that same empowerment continues as Jesus said in John's Gospels chapter 14 through 16.

It is only David I believe who said " Pslams 51:11

This shows that the Holy Spirit came upon and also departed Prior to The Lord Jesus who said The Comforter would be with yu and in you two works of the Holy Spirit as Jesus said.

John 14:16-18

16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.


With you and in you . The Greek read like this :

Yes, you explained, but not convinced.
It is not new that people and groups exegeting the scripture to defend their own made believe and doctrines.
This will end when the Lord will finnish it.

Ok, that's fine. I am not here to make you agree. Again, you are giving me your opinion about the subject, and I asked you to provide me with Biblical text to support your position. You seem incapable of doing that. I careless if you do not agree are with the Bible verses I offered to support what I see in the Word of God.

Everyone else can, and after prayer and seeking God, I trust the Holy Spirit to help them come to the understanding HE wants them to have. That is why 1 Cor, chapter 14:38, is said by Paul, who speaks to you.

38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. KJV

37-38"If any one of you thinks God has something for you to say or has inspired you to do something, pay close attention to what I have written. This is the way the Master wants it. If you won’t play by these rules, God can’t use you. Sorry. "
Message Bible

 

[hornetguy]

Doesn’t hurt to “stir up” the gift like Paul told Timothy.

Way out of context for this discussion....
It is beyond belief that people would say that a gift from God is anything less than complete... perfect..... and that we have to "practice" it is simply ludicrous...
If a believer has been given, by the Spirit, the gift of miraculous tongues, it will be perfectly spoken from the "get-go"....

"practicing" is what you do when you are trying to perfect something made up...

I would love to see any scriptural description of believers "practicing" their gift...