Dude? Well, anyway, 'dude' means a well dressed man. Clothed in Christ's righteousness. I'll take it.
Christian Tithe?
- Thread starter NetChaplain
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This person, who claims to be a "Net Chaplain" posted on a theological / doctrinal subject, and claims that the Christian is to no longer return Tithe to God, under the New Covenant. According to scripture, this makes him not only in error, but a robber (thief) of God, not merely of means, which belong to God by Creation and Redemption, but of persons (the far greater sin).
There is a serious curse and woe upon such persons. If this person is going to go around on multiple platforms, posting the same error, and being unable to defend their point from scripture, then they are fair to be approached and rebuked publically for their henous crimes against God, His word, heaven and humanity.
1Ti_5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
His sin is not yet unforgiveable, but if he does not repent, he, and those who follow him will be destroyed, and their blood will be upon his garments, and I will not have his or their blood on mine, because as a Christian, my duty is to love him, and those who follow him by speaking the truth in love - plainly, not dancing around the subject and pretending he is not robbing God publically.
Imagine, your best friend getting mugged / robbed in broad daylight in front of you, and you will have no righteous anger, no rebuke for the sinful action that took place? My best friend is God, even Jesus Christ, and there are at least two in this thread who walked right up to Jesus, publically, and robbed him and attempted to justify it in front of every one. They might as well have slapped Christ on the corss and spit in his face and pulled his beard and whipped his back and claimed innocence as guilty Pilate.
Do not lecture me, nor disrespect me because I stood up for God's cause, and my best friend (Jesus Christ), and told these two thieves their black crime of robbery of means and mankind. Either join in rebuking them, or join them, or stand aside. The devil and his dirty deeds done dirt cheap needs no defense from a Christian.
I care not what place it is publically posted. Let him stand before God's word, and be judged plainly by it. The word, in Malachi calls them robbers, thieves, pirates. Did I make that up, or do you actually believe it?
If he repents, I accept him, as in Christ Jesus, like any other who makes the claim and obeys God in faith. I do not seek either of their loss, nor eternal condmenation, but their redemption and salvation.
What do you call a murderer who advocates for murder in public?
What do you call an idolator who advocates for idolatry in public?
They both just "stole" from God, which is a violation of the Ten Commandments, and to break one, is to transgress them all together.
Therefore, what should I call someone who robs God of tithes?
Who cares what his earthly self-appointed title is. He is a man, as I am. He is continuing to justify his evil and wicked position, and has no heart to repent, for he seeks not God for it in this matter.
God winks at ignorance, but once the truth is made known, he is responsible. I am responsible for making sure he knows where he is in error. If he came to me privately, I would rebuke him privately, but he stands naked in sin before all, and flaunts it as just! He robbed my love, my friend, my God! He crucifies the Son of God afresh and teaches others to do so, and dares call it love!
Read the seriousness of his position which will come upon him, and I should not bodly warn him?
Zec_14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Malachi 3:8-10 KJV
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. [9] Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. [10] Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. [9] Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. [10] Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
It’s difficult for Christians to give freewill offerings when the word of God is not being honoured.
Assuming for the moment that NetChaplain IS wrong, if you go around yelling at and insulting everybody you think is wrong on the internet, you're going to have your hands full. It won't convince them to not be wrong. It won't convince anybody else that they are wrong.
In fact it will only do two things: Feed your own feeling of self righteousness and make everyone think you're a big jerk.
Assuming for the moment that you ARE right, there are many different ways to say the same thing and you have chosen the way that guarantees people will not listen to you.
You are a distraction from the topic, and mistaken at the same time.
I did not "go around yelling at" - https://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/christian-tithe.209612/#post-5014925
Not did I go around "insulting".
I provided the scripture which identified the crime, and criminal activity.
Now, back on topic.
Abraham:
Gen_14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Abraham, a Jew or no?
Abraham, a person under the old covenant, or no?
Joh_8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Jesus specifically pointed out the "works of Abraham", a father of the faithful, yes?
Melchisedec is a type of Jesus Christ, as priest of the most high God, yes?
Jesus Christ is the real (antitype) priest of the most high God, yes?
Does Jesus Christ as the real (antitype) receive tithes, and if so, from whom?
In the NT texts (Mat. to Rev.) did Jesus ever, in any place, teach that to return tithes was to stop? If so, put that text here.
In the book of Malachi 3, vs 1 is that verse referring specifically to Jesus as the "messenger of the covenant", and if so, what specifica "covenant" is it referring to in context, the old or New Covenant?
Is "tithes" and "offerings" separate and distinct things? if so, does any text which simply addressing offering, have anything to do with tithing? Does a positive injunction to give with a willing heart for a special offering, have anything to say about not returning tithe?
In the rest of the chapter of Malachi 3, not only does it deal with the natural children of natural Israel, and the levitical priesthood, who were robbing God of "tithes" and "offerings", is there any application to the spiritual children (Heb. 2:13; Isa. 8:8-20) of spiritual Israel (Christ Jesus; Mat. 2;13-15,19-21; Hos. 11:1). 1 Cor. 15:46.
When Paul, in Hebrews, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, refers to Abraham and Melchisedec, and specifically mentions the tithes that the Levites returned (paid) in Abraham to Melchisedec, and later refers to the change in the law of priesthood, going from levitical to melchisedical, does Jesus, as the antitype receive tithes from anyone, and if so who, and if not, how then is he the antitype of melchisedec and a priest of the most high God, if there are no tithes returned for the ministry, and the lesser priests under him?
Isa_66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
In the OT, under the typological sanctuary, the levitical priests lived of the tithes returned. In the antitypical sanctuary, there are gospel workers, what do they live of as Paul states in 1 Cor. 9, etc?
What does the Bible call (identify) someone who robs God of tithe?
I do not have to assume anything. The scriptures were provided in plain English. It is only the rebellious, wicked, stubborn, thieving, selfish heart of mankind that chooses to not receive God's seed or correction.
I am not here to convince. That is the prerogative of the Holy Ghost. I am to be faithful in stating the facts and words of scripture. This was done.
Self-righteousness is a law apart from God's law (Psamols 119:172). I provided God's words from scripture. God identified those who do not return faithful tithes as robbers. God said in His word that such thieves will not enter the kingdom of Heaven. God said that there is a curse upon them.
I do not care what you think of me. I do not care what others among mankind think of me. I care what God thinks of me. I care what His word says, and this was plainly given. If you think I do not care about the persons I have written to, or you, you are the one mistaken, and in need of correction. The warning is given in love that they might fear God and find repentance from Him, before they are destroyed of the destroyer, which is already in their house.
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
I know this so called (self appointed) "Net Chaplain" and his stubborn refusal to bend. If charity gone before is rejected, and he rejects the fear wherewith he ought to fear God, what more can be done? May others fear, where he mocked at God, for if they repent not, their blood is on his garments, for having listened to that thieving pirate.
Doesn't matter whether "I" am right.
The scriptures provided are always right. God is right at all times, and in every place. Whom God says is a thief and robber, they are verily thieves and robbers. When God says they shall not enter heaven in their unrepentance, they shall not step one foot through the slightest crack.
Did you send me, or did God?
Did I come out from you, or from God?
Do I carry your message, or God's?
Do I need to speak your words, or that of God's words, as it is plainly written?
Go read the messengers sent from God. Go read the straight testimony of John the Baptist. Go read the boldness of Jeremiah. Go see the message of Haniah, Mishael and Azariah before Nebuchadnezzar.
Take your platonic powerless wispy vascilating men-pleasing sentence and go your own way, no one is stopping you, not the least of all myself, but it is you who obstruct the way when I speak what is given from the word to others. You are a present obstacle in the way of others, not I.
If men have not eyes to see, nor ears to hear, it is because they choose to refuse the words of God. His word is more powerful than if I had actually screamed them at the top of my pathetic lungs. The silence of God's written words as entered into the mind when read are louder and more thundering in power than if all humanity roared together in unison. The Holy Ghost will bring such conviction as to topple any idol of man's building in their mind. If they do not bend now, they will all bow soon enough, but then it is too late for them.
I am clean of their blood. How about you?
There are churches that erroneously teach that New Testament Christians are commanded to give a minimum of 10% of our income to our church. Others teach that preachers of these churches are turning the 10% tithe from the Old Testament for Israel into a "legalistic prescription" for Christians under the new covenant. I even once heard a Pastor make a challenge to his congregation to give 10% of their income for 90 days and if God does not bless them then he will give them their money back.
In 2 Corinthians 9:5-7 we read: Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation. But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
I don't see a "specific percentage" in the New Testament commanded anywhere for Christians to give, but I certainly believe in giving and not just to our church. I also believe that everything we own belongs to God and we certainly can't out give God.
Malachi 3:8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. The whole nation of Israel. Malachi is written to the Israelites under the old covenant of law. This is where we need to rightly divide the word of truth.
In 2 Corinthians 9:5-7 we read: Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation. But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
I don't see a "specific percentage" in the New Testament commanded anywhere for Christians to give, but I certainly believe in giving and not just to our church. I also believe that everything we own belongs to God and we certainly can't out give God.
Malachi 3:8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. The whole nation of Israel. Malachi is written to the Israelites under the old covenant of law. This is where we need to rightly divide the word of truth.
It is difficult to understand why so many Christians don’t know that they are not under the old covenant.
Too often people (especially legalists) mix the old and new covenants together and do not rightly divide the word of truth.
"You have to get back under some churches teaching to get under the Law Jesus died to free us from".
I have even heard a tv scoundrel/preacher tried to get people under dietary laws equating a shrimp and lobster with a cockroach, forgetting "arise Peter, kill and eat".
Most of the men and women I know who are truly born again, spirit filled, give as He directs and over a perhaps legalistic "tithe".
It's all His anyway.
blessings
I have even heard a tv scoundrel/preacher tried to get people under dietary laws equating a shrimp and lobster with a cockroach, forgetting "arise Peter, kill and eat".
Most of the men and women I know who are truly born again, spirit filled, give as He directs and over a perhaps legalistic "tithe".
It's all His anyway.
blessings
Balderdash. You're a spiritual bully. You like to prove you are right and other people are wrong.
You also like ripping scripture out of context a lot. You seem to get some delight from it somehow.
You're a would-be preacher, but for all the wrong reasons. You like the idea of being a preacher because you think it means berating people from on high.
If you really want to make a difference, find out how to tell people they are wrong without telling them they are idiots. Figure out how to tell them they are wrong and at the same time make them feel good about doing right.
I sometimes think this could be a result of misplaces zeal, a misplaced desire to express our love for Him misused by the enemy to get us back under "religion".
To the last two statements, I agree completely. To the first two, in principle, you are correct, but in practice, you are not.
Do you give 100% of your income to Christian ministries, and you live on nothing at all? I doubt it. Regardless, the question on the table is whether Christians are required to surrender (and I don't mean "give") a tithe to their local church.
There are many aspects to this topic, which I won't try to enunciate here, but I will note that most people with whom I have discussed this come at it from the erroneous assumption that "tithing" is just another word for "giving".
It's my understanding that one can give whatever one desires, because God loves a cheerful giver: "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver" (Co 9:6, 7).
