Christ’s death and resurrection

[mailmandan]

Brother, that’s a thoughtful illustration, and I agree that genuine faith always acts in obedience. Noah believed God’s warning first; that’s why he built the ark. His obedience proved his faith, but it wasn’t the act of hammering wood that saved him; it was trusting the God who promised deliverance.

The same pattern runs through the gospel. We are “saved by grace through faith” (Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV) — faith comes first, and the works follow as its fruit. Romans 10:9–10 (KJV) says, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Baptism then follows as the believer’s confession in water — a picture of dying and rising with Christ (Romans 6:3–4 KJV).

Even Peter clarifies that the saving part of baptism isn’t the water: 1 Peter 3:21 (KJV) — “Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” The power that saves isn’t in the water; it’s in the risen Christ and the faith that unites us to Him.

So yes true faith acts (just like Noah), but the act itself isn’t what saves. It’s the believing heart responding to God’s grace. Baptism is our joyful obedience — the outward testimony of an inward faith already made alive in Christ.

Grace and peace, always in His Word.

Amen brother and well said! Noah had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord and was a just man who walked with God and a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5) before he built the ark. (Genesis 6:8,9) Noah's obedience was a demonstration of his faith but not the origin of it. Building the ark saved Noah and his family physically from drowning. (Hebrews 11:7)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Amen brother and well said! Noah had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord and was a just man who walked with God and a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5) before he built the ark. (Genesis 6:8,9) Noah's obedience was a demonstration of his faith but not the origin of it. Building the ark saved Noah and his family physically from drowning. (Hebrews 11:7)

So you do admit that Noah's work saved him and his family. No one is saying obedience is the origin of faith; in fact I don't think anyone even conceives of such an idea, except for you apparently. Obedience was the outworking of his faith, and that work saved him

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Noah believed God’s warning first; that’s why he built the ark. His obedience proved his faith, but it wasn’t the act of hammering wood that saved him; it was trusting the God who promised deliverance.

This is illogical reasoning. The act of hammering clearly did save him, for if he hadn't done so he wouldn't have been saved . He hammered because he trusted God and was saved.

No responses to this yet. Waiting to see how this can be twisted by the work-phobic crowd

 

[mailmandan]

So you do admit that Noah's work saved him and his family. No one is saying obedience is the origin of faith; in fact I don't think anyone even conceives of such an idea, except for you apparently. Obedience was the outworking of his faith, and that work saved him

Noah's work of building the ark saved Noah and his family physically, but from drowning, but Noah was already spiritually saved prior to that. (Genesis 6:8,9) Folks who teach salvation by faith and works don't believe a living faith is established until works are produced. Such folks even believe that works are the very essence of faith. Obedience was the outworking of Noah's faith, yet Noah was already spiritually saved prior to building the ark.

 

[Eli1]

What are your thoughts?

Best thing that happened in the Universe.

 

[Burn1986]

What are your thoughts?

You left out Burial. The process of Death, Burial, and Resurrection are foundational themes in a Christian walk, especially in prayer, fasting, and bringing to pass breakthroughs and prophecies. Christians usually give up at or near the Burial phase, where the vision has basically died.

 

[LightBearer316]

Best thing that happened in the Universe.

LOVE IT!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Brother, that’s a thoughtful illustration, and I agree that genuine faith always acts in obedience. Noah believed God’s warning first; that’s why he built the ark. His obedience proved his faith, but it wasn’t the act of hammering wood that saved him; it was trusting the God who promised deliverance.

The same pattern runs through the gospel. We are “saved by grace through faith” (Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV) — faith comes first, and the works follow as its fruit. Romans 10:9–10 (KJV) says, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Baptism then follows as the believer’s confession in water — a picture of dying and rising with Christ (Romans 6:3–4 KJV).

Even Peter clarifies that the saving part of baptism isn’t the water: 1 Peter 3:21 (KJV) — “Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” The power that saves isn’t in the water; it’s in the risen Christ and the faith that unites us to Him.

So yes true faith acts (just like Noah), but the act itself isn’t what saves. It’s the believing heart responding to God’s grace. Baptism is our joyful obedience — the outward testimony of an inward faith already made alive in Christ.

Grace and peace, always in His Word.

“His obedience proved his faith, but it wasn’t the act of hammering wood that saved him; it was trusting the God who promised deliverance.”

it eas both acting together acrually . If Noah had said he believed but then said “ I do t need to build the ark I’m saved by your promise “

noah would have drown . He was saved by faith acting on what God said because he believed God

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭

Faith isn’t just God making a promise it’s the person receiving and acting upon it because they believe him . It takes the persons action as well

again my point was if Noah never o eyed and built the ark he would have drown rejecting zgods word to him his promise of a new covenant with Noah and his family but Noah was a believer and acted in faith

Same with everything that’s of faith you have to hear the word believe it and act upon it when called

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Brother, I completely agree that true faith acts — simple belief without obedience isn’t biblical faith. As James 2:17 (KJV) says, “Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

When Jesus was baptized, it wasn’t because He needed cleansing, but to “fulfil all righteousness” (Matthew 3:15 KJV). His baptism set the pattern of humble obedience, not a ritual for salvation. Just as His righteousness was perfect before entering the water, the believer’s righteousness comes by faith before baptism — through union with His death and resurrection (Romans 6:3–4 KJV).

We follow His example because we love and trust Him — not to earn salvation, but to express it. Faith without obedience is incomplete, but obedience without faith is empty.

Grace and peace, always in His Word.

follow His example because we love and trust Him — not to earn salvation, but to expressit. Faith without obedience is incomplete, but obedience without faith is empty….

And faith without the action is dead

 

[LightBearer316]

follow His example because we love and trust Him — not to earn salvation, but to expressit. Faith without obedience is incomplete, but obedience without faith is empty….

And faith without the action is dead

I agree that genuine faith produces action — that’s what makes it living.
But there’s an important distinction between faith producing works and faith being made up of works.

When James says “faith without works is dead,” he isn’t redefining faith’s essence; he’s exposing the emptiness of false profession.

Abraham was justified by faith long before offering Isaac (Genesis 15:6 KJV vs. James 2:21 KJV). His works didn’t give life to his faith; they proved that his faith was already alive.

That’s the pattern through Scripture:

• We’re saved by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).
• That faith then works by love (Galatians 5:6).

So, faith that never acts isn’t incomplete faith — it’s counterfeit faith.
True faith acts because it’s alive, not to become alive.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Noah's work of building the ark saved Noah and his family physically, but from drowning, but Noah was already spiritually saved prior to that.

Noah would not have been saved spiritually if he hadn't built the ark because he would have died without a savior. Which proves that saving faith acts

 

[mailmandan]

Noah would not have been saved spiritually if he hadn't built the ark becuase he would have died without a savior. Which proves that saving faith acts

If Noah would have refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, but of course, that was not the case. Faith that saves results in actions, yet we are still saved through faith and not based on the merits of those actions. We must not confuse the nature of saving faith with the evidence of saving faith.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If Noah would have refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, but of course, that was not the case. Faith that saves results in actions, yet we are still saved through faith and not based on the merits of those actions. We must not confuse the nature of saving faith with the evidence of saving faith.

I agree, however I think we must not confuse saving faith that acts because God wants us to with faith that works to earn a merited salvation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree that genuine faith produces action — that’s what makes it living.
But there’s an important distinction between faith producing works and faith being made up of works.

When James says “faith without works is dead,” he isn’t redefining faith’s essence; he’s exposing the emptiness of false profession.

Abraham was justified by faith long before offering Isaac (Genesis 15:6 KJV vs. James 2:21 KJV). His works didn’t give life to his faith; they proved that his faith was already alive.

That’s the pattern through Scripture:

• We’re saved by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).
• That faith then works by love (Galatians 5:6).

So, faith that never acts isn’t incomplete faith — it’s counterfeit faith.
True faith acts because it’s alive, not to become alive.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

It seems like you just avoid points and go back in a circle sort of and avoid the point. My point about Noah for instance is really simple .

God told him the truth about what was coming and told him how to be saved from it . That was Gods part .

Noah then believed what God said to him and acted as if he believed and of course he built the ark . That’s the operation of faith you hear his word and believe it then you act upon.

Saved by faith

You hear gods word Peter filled with the Holy Ghost preached a summary of the gospel and then afterwards

“Now when they heard this,( peters summary of the gospel beginning when he’s filled with the Holy Ghost ) they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You seem to want to remove the things we are taught to do and believe and make it not important or not connected to our salvation . But this lacks faith because faith comes from the things God said to the church like “ repent and be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of your sins”


We get baptized for that purpose remission of sins in his name. No one here not me or anyone is saying “ if you do t believe the gospel and get baptized you’ll be saved “ you keep trying to make into to that .

What I’m saying is because we hear what God actually said in the gospel and believe what’s being taught to us , this is the only reason to get baptized because you believe the gospel . Faith comes from tbat from the gospel being preached and heard…

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

.. then we’re supposed to actually act and not just hear . That’s a self deception to remove the essential nature of repentance and obedience to his word .

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word,

and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to actually act upon our beliefs like boah did God spoke , he believed God , and acted upon gods word by that faith that came when he heard and believedVids warning and instructions and then acted without the action faith can’t save Noah he would have ever had a boat for his family unless he actually obeyed Gods words to him believing the promise God made to him

tbats chrirtianity we hear and believe the gospel and as we come to know Jesus more a more tbrough the revelations of him in the gospel .we become disciples and followers more and more as we grow in faith hearing his word and believing accepting what he’s saying and acting upon it.

that part is required just like for Noah

“Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Without that factor Noah would that even saved because his faith would have been dead and ineffective . Maybe he could have had it in his mind “ faith means I never have to do what god is telling me I need to do to be saved “

It his faith told him “ god told me how to be saved all I have to do is believe him and follow what he told me “ he believed so much in the lord tbat ….. he actually did what the lord told him would save his family and self and bring them a new covenant with God…. In a cleansed and renewed earth where they would now have the dominion ….

Noah didn’t just believe God existed he believed what God said to him he took God at his word . When he told him what terror was to come Upon the world , and how to be saved from that terror .

That’s what’s been done for us the New Testament tells us this world is coming to an end of fire and destruction because of sin and tells us how we can be saved from it and have eternal life with the lord in a new perfect world

our part is to first hear what he actually said will save us and destroy us in the gospel and begin to accept and believe what our lord taught regarding chi dem action and everlasting salvation aboit life and death spirit and truth ect

We have to act on gods word hearing his word is what faith comes from and acting in it is what saves us . Because we believed we acted …..that’s faith but without either belief or action it’s not complete,

 

[LightBearer316]

It seems like you just avoid points and go back in a circle sort of and avoid the point. My point about Noah for instance is really simple .

God told him the truth about what was coming and told him how to be saved from it . That was Gods part .

Noah then believed what God said to him and acted as if he believed and of course he built the ark . That’s the operation of faith you hear his word and believe it then you act upon.

Saved by faith

You hear gods word Peter filled with the Holy Ghost preached a summary of the gospel and then afterwards

“Now when they heard this,( peters summary of the gospel beginning when he’s filled with the Holy Ghost ) they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You seem to want to remove the things we are taught to do and believe and make it not important or not connected to our salvation . But this lacks faith because faith comes from the things God said to the church like “ repent and be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of your sins”


We get baptized for that purpose remission of sins in his name. No one here not me or anyone is saying “ if you do t believe the gospel and get baptized you’ll be saved “ you keep trying to make into to that .

What I’m saying is because we hear what God actually said in the gospel and believe what’s being taught to us , this is the only reason to get baptized because you believe the gospel . Faith comes from tbat from the gospel being preached and heard…

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

.. then we’re supposed to actually act and not just hear . That’s a self deception to remove the essential nature of repentance and obedience to his word .

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word,

and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to actually act upon our beliefs like boah did God spoke , he believed God , and acted upon gods word by that faith that came when he heard and believedVids warning and instructions and then acted without the action faith can’t save Noah he would have ever had a boat for his family unless he actually obeyed Gods words to him believing the promise God made to him

tbats chrirtianity we hear and believe the gospel and as we come to know Jesus more a more tbrough the revelations of him in the gospel .we become disciples and followers more and more as we grow in faith hearing his word and believing accepting what he’s saying and acting upon it.

that part is required just like for Noah

“Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Without that factor Noah would that even saved because his faith would have been dead and ineffective . Maybe he could have had it in his mind “ faith means I never have to do what god is telling me I need to do to be saved “

It his faith told him “ god told me how to be saved all I have to do is believe him and follow what he told me “ he believed so much in the lord tbat ….. he actually did what the lord told him would save his family and self and bring them a new covenant with God…. In a cleansed and renewed earth where they would now have the dominion ….

Noah didn’t just believe God existed he believed what God said to him he took God at his word . When he told him what terror was to come Upon the world , and how to be saved from that terror .

That’s what’s been done for us the New Testament tells us this world is coming to an end of fire and destruction because of sin and tells us how we can be saved from it and have eternal life with the lord in a new perfect world

our part is to first hear what he actually said will save us and destroy us in the gospel and begin to accept and believe what our lord taught regarding chi dem action and everlasting salvation aboit life and death spirit and truth ect

We have to act on gods word hearing his word is what faith comes from and acting in it is what saves us . Because we believed we acted …..that’s faith but without either belief or action it’s not complete,

Brother, I say this with the deepest love, and your heartfelt response is touching; and honestly, you are not being combative; you're reasoning passionately from your view that faith and obedience are inseparable.

You are using Noah’s obedience as the model: God speaks --> Noah believes--> Noah acts --> salvation follows. Your mistake isn’t the sequence — it’s collapsing belief and obedience into one saving act, which blurs the biblical distinction between the root (faith) and the fruit (obedience).

Again brother, I appreciate your sincerity and your desire to honor God by obeying His Word. I don’t disagree that faith acts; true faith always does. Noah’s story is a perfect example: he believed God first, and because he believed, he built the ark. But it wasn’t the act of hammering wood that saved him — it was trusting the God who promised deliverance. His work demonstrated faith; it didn’t produce it.

Scripture keeps this same order all throughout. Hebrews 11:7 (KJV) says, “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house.” Notice — by faith he prepared the ark. Faith was the root; obedience was the fruit.

In Acts 2:37–41 (KJV), Peter preached the gospel; the people “were pricked in their heart” — they believed before baptism. That’s why baptism was the next step, not the cause, of their salvation. God had already touched their hearts through faith, and baptism became the confession of that faith. The same pattern appears in Acts 10:44–48 (KJV) — the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius and his household before they were baptized.

You quoted it perfectly — Romans 10:17 (KJV): “Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” We hear first, believe, and then act — just like Noah. The action confirms the faith; it doesn’t create it. Otherwise, salvation would depend on the strength of our performance, not the sufficiency of Christ’s finished work.

Faith and obedience are inseparable — but they’re not identical. Faith receives the promise; obedience displays it. When we’re baptized, we aren’t earning grace; we’re testifying that we’ve received it through faith in the risen Christ.

Grace and peace — always in His Word.

 

[LightBearer316]

mailmandan said:
Amen brother and well said! Noah had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord and was a just man who walked with God and a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5) before he built the ark. (Genesis 6:8,9) Noah's obedience was a demonstration of his faith but not the origin of it. Building the ark saved Noah and his family physically from drowning. (Hebrews 11:7)

So you do admit that Noah's work saved him and his family. No one is saying obedience is the origin of faith; in fact I don't think anyone even conceives of such an idea, except for you apparently. Obedience was the outworking of his faith, and that work saved him

obedience is the origin of faith

If obedience flows from faith, then faith comes first — it’s the root, obedience is the fruit.

Noah's work saved him and his family.

But then you said, “Noah’s work saved him,” You are turning the fruit into the root — making the result of faith into the cause of salvation.

That directly contradicts Scripture:

“By faith Noah… prepared an ark to the saving of his house” — Hebrews 11:7 (KJV)​

(It says by faith — not by works.)​

​

The same pattern applies to baptism: faith saves, and obedience follows as evidence.

• Obedience demonstrated Noah’s faith.
• The act of building didn’t save him spiritually; God’s grace through faith did (Genesis 6:8 KJV; Ephesians 2:8–9 KJV).

Brother, I think we actually agree more than it might seem. The key difference is in what we mean when we say “saved.”

Genesis 6:8 (KJV) says, “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.” That’s the starting point — grace, not works. Then Hebrews 11:7 (KJV) explains: “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house.”

His obedience didn’t originate his salvation; it expressed it. God’s grace gave him the warning and the promise. Noah believed it, and that belief produced obedience — but the power that saved wasn’t in the wood or the hammer; it was in the Word of God and Noah’s trust in it.

Grace and Peace

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

His obedience didn’t originate his salvation; it expressed it. God’s grace gave him the warning and the promise. Noah believed it, and that belief produced obedience — but the power that saved wasn’t in the wood or the hammer; it was in the Word of God and Noah’s trust in it.

This kind of nonsensical gibberish just makes you look ridiculous. A child can understand that if Noah hadn't built the ark he wouldn't have been saved, either physically or spiritually, because he would have died in his sins without a savior. Faith didn't build the ark; Noah and his sons did. So Noah's work in faith saved them

By faith Noah, having received divine instruction concerning things not as yet seen, showing reverence fully prepared the ark for salvation of his house; by which he judged the world; and according to faith he became heir of righteousness. Hebrews 11:7​

 

[LightBearer316]

This kind of nonsensical gibberish just makes you look ridiculous. A child can understand that if Noah hadn't built the ark he wouldn't have been saved, either physically or spiritually, because he would have died in his sins without a savior. Faith didn't build the ark; Noah and his sons did. So Noah's work in faith saved them

By faith Noah, having received divine instruction concerning things not as yet seen, showing reverence fully prepared the ark for salvation of his house; by which he judged the world; and according to faith he became heir of righteousness. Hebrews 11:7​

Brother, no one denies that Noah had to build the ark; but the Scripture itself defines the cause and the effect.

Hebrews 11:7 (KJV) says plainly, “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house.” The order is clear: by faith --> he prepared. Faith produced obedience; obedience didn’t create faith.

His work was the evidence of faith, not the power that saved him. The ark was the means God used to preserve him physically — but it was grace that made him righteous: “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD” (Genesis 6:8 KJV).

If his labor built the ark, it was grace that opened the door. Salvation begins with God, not with man’s effort. That’s why Ephesians 2:8–9 (KJV) still stands: “For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Faith acts, yes — but faith is not a hammer in man’s hand; it’s trust in God’s promise. Noah’s faith built the ark before his hands ever touched the wood.

Grace and peace, always in His Word.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Faith acts, yes — but faith is not a hammer in man’s hand; it’s trust in God’s promise. Noah’s faith built the ark before his hands ever touched the wood.

You're so desperate to remove work from salvation that you resort to bizarre explanations like this, that frankly are meaningless and ridiculous. Noah found grace and was warned/instructed by God; and he heeded God's warning and in faith built the ark that saved him.

 

[LightBearer316]

You're so desperate to remove work from salvation that you resort to bizarre explanations like this, that frankly are meaningless and ridiculous. Noah found grace and was warned/instructed by God; and he heeded God's warning and in faith built the ark that saved him.

Brother, there’s nothing “bizarre” about what Hebrews 11:7 (KJV) already says: “By faith Noah… prepared an ark to the saving of his house.” The text itself places faith first and action second — “by faith… prepared.”

Noah’s building didn’t earn grace; it proved it. He believed the warning before he lifted a tool — that’s why he obeyed. The grace that saved him came from God before a single plank was cut (Genesis 6:8 KJV).

Faith without obedience is dead (James 2:17 KJV), but obedience without faith is just labor. Noah’s faith acted, but the saving power was in God’s promise, not in Noah’s performance.

Grace and peace, always in His Word.