Catholicism

[17Bees]

True all true also it says specifically not to speak to the dead

Praying to the dead

Deut 18:9-12
“
When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

Leviticus 20:6

“
If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.

It is forbidden and done. The question is not if they hear us or not. God does absolutely NOT approve, oppodisite. He despises it. And so do I

When the Priest breaks the bread the Priest drinks the wine only. Where is that biblical?

Making rituals for the dead to ''not suffer" and bless them? This is not biblical either (pagan rooted)

''Blessing" dead bodies is pagan as well and Jesus said to us let the dead bury their dead. Yet they claim holy water and all sorts of things will help a dead person.

Holy Water and crucifixes to drive out demons. Thats just a nogo and all roots back to pagans using symbols. Casting out devils with Devils. Pagan roots

They worship Relic which is again Idolatry, which also already shows up with their Saints like Blasius to whom they pray ''set someone else's house on fire" pretty much. Pagan roots

Confessing to a Priest for the forgiveness of sins, as him being ''exalted by God to do so" is unbiblical and a nogo. Confess your faults to one another so ye may be healed, not so you may reveive forgiveness. And that also again has pagan roots

Did Christ break His own commandment when He spoke with the dead?

 

[Demi777]

You gave yourself your own answer. It was Christ, not some normal human. so no.

Did Christ break His own commandment when He spoke with the dead?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Pretty sure He meant that for US imperfect humans. Not for absolute perfection, as He was.

Did Christ break His own commandment when He spoke with the dead?

 

[Demi777]

Always the ''but he did it" mentality
Like little children learning to steal and lie "but he did it so it must be ok for me"
jeez

Pretty sure He meant that for US imperfect humans. Not for absolute perfection, as He was.

 

[17Bees]

Pretty sure He meant that for US imperfect humans. Not for absolute perfection, as He was.

If Christ transgressed His own law then He would not be sinless.

 

[17Bees]

Always the ''but he did it" mentality
Like little children learning to steal and lie "but he did it so it must be ok for me"
jeez

I don't think Christ is a politician. He doesn't make law that He doesn't follow.

 

[Demi777]

SO God or the son of God talking to his people is trespassing his law..ok im out

If Christ transgressed His own law then He would not be sinless.

 

[Demi777]

You are the one questioning Christ keeping his law, ignoring that he didnt and couldnt even break it as he has been exalted by God and actually came from that relm and all in the first place.
He could walk on water and do all sorts of stuff.
You are trying to justify necromancy. See how that went for David!

I don't think Christ is a politician. He doesn't make law that He doesn't follow.

 

[17Bees]

SO God or the son of God talking to his people is trespassing his law..ok im out

Well.... His dead people. Moses and Elijah to be specific. Matthew 17. And no, He wasn't trespassing His law.

 

[17Bees]

You are the one questioning Christ keeping his law, ignoring that he didnt and couldnt even break it as he has been exalted by God and actually came from that relm and all in the first place.
He could walk on water and do all sorts of stuff.
You are trying to justify necromancy. See how that went for David!

Not sure how I'm trying to justify necromancy or questioning whether Christ kept His own law. I think He did keep His law and what He did when speaking to Moses and Elijah was not necromancy. Or do you think it was?

 

[Demi777]

I believe if we did or tried that what he did, it would be necromancy. But Jesus came out of that relm where he could talk to them anyways and he wasnt only human when he came here. I dont see him trespassing his law.
It seems like your trying to justify us speaking to the dead, because Jesus did. Thats the impression you have been giving

Not sure how I'm trying to justify necromancy or questioning whether Christ kept His own law. I think He did keep His law and what He did when speaking to Moses and Elijah was not necromancy. Or do you think it was?

 

[17Bees]

I believe if we did or tried that what he did, it would be necromancy. But Jesus came out of that relm where he could talk to them anyways and he wasnt only human when he came here. I dont see him trespassing his law.
It seems like your trying to justify us speaking to the dead, because Jesus did. Thats the impression you have been giving

I think what I'm trying to do is help people understand the difference in conjuring up spirits and prayerful intercession with the Body of the Church. Necromancy is divining up the dead through witchcraft or evil spirits in order to glean information about future events or information we couldn't know. Catholics believe in the communion of saints - something you might even profess in the Apostle's Creed. Catholics understand the Kingdom of God to be a living place and as such, think of the Saints as being glorified members of the church. The "communion" happens when believers pray to the Saints to intercede on their behalf because of their closer and unrestrained and non-carnal relationship with God. This intercession is the same thing I might ask of you if I asked you for your prayers because you are a believer and part of the body of the church. No Catholic I know believes Saints can answer a prayer or perform a request and no Catholic I know believes you could either.

Prayerful intercession with the living community of Saints, in the hearts of Catholics, is about as far away from conjuring up spirits with witchcraft than Christ was when speaking with Moses and Elijah.

 

[Demi777]

Well we will have to agree to disagree because for me any type of form or attempt to talk to a dead person is not allowed. If it were allowed, we could see them and interact with them daily.

I think what I'm trying to do is help people understand the difference in conjuring up spirits and prayerful intercession with the Body of the Church. Necromancy is divining up the dead through witchcraft or evil spirits in order to glean information about future events or information we couldn't know. Catholics believe in the communion of saints - something you might even profess in the Apostle's Creed. Catholics understand the Kingdom of God to be a living place and as such, think of the Saints as being glorified members of the church. The "communion" happens when believers pray to the Saints to intercede on their behalf because of their closer and unrestrained and non-carnal relationship with God. This intercession is the same thing I might ask of you if I asked you for your prayers because you are a believer and part of the body of the church. No Catholic I know believes Saints can answer a prayer or perform a request and no Catholic I know believes you could either.

Prayerful intercession with the living community of Saints, in the hearts of Catholics, is about as far away from conjuring up spirits with witchcraft than Christ was when speaking with Moses and Elijah.

 

[FranC]

Praying with rosaries, praying to/bowing down to statues is NOT in the bible. Neither is the idea that Mary remained a virgin her entire life, as some catholics believe. And nowhere in the bible does it say to pray to the dead, or that they can hear us..

Hi Blue,

This is also for those reading along.
We could learn something about Catholicism maybe and learn not to hate our brothers in Christ.

You know, just because another deomination doesn't agree with ours, Not Only does it not mean they're pagan (Demi's term)
BUT they might even be right!! Who can know for sure?

It seems to me we don't even agree with the early Church theologians who knew an Apostle, or knew someone who did, so how could WE be so sure we're right??

PRAYING WITH ROSARIES

People were not so well-read and intelligent as they are today. The rosary was invented by someone and is used for the same reason that churches in Europe have stained glass Windows. Do you know what the reason is?
TO TELL THE STORY OF JESUS to a community of persons who could not read and would otherwise not know ANY of the bible stories. So, it would seem that the Universal or Catholic church was the first to share the bible.

PRAYING TO/BOWING DOWN TO STATUES

 

[Blain]

17bees We are not to talk to the dead nor pray to them as we can do nothing for them, but Jesus is the resurrection and the life and so when he spoke to the dead the dry bones came to life. You are not thinking with the mind of Christ in saying he broke his own rules, you are thinking with the mindset the Pharisees had when they condemned Jesus for bringing a person back to life on the sabbath saying he broke the commandment because he was working on the day of rest

 

[FranC]

Praying with rosaries, praying to/bowing down to statues is NOT in the bible. Neither is the idea that Mary remained a virgin her entire life, as some catholics believe. And nowhere in the bible does it say to pray to the dead, or that they can hear us..

Maybe if you knew some history, you'd like Catholics A WHOLE LOT MORE. Since it was the Universal or Catholic Church that kept Christianity safe the first few hundred years. I'm sure you know of all the heresies that abounded. Why do you think Christianity is still with us? The CHURCH of that time, as God so willed it, kept our faith together and in one piece.


PRAYING THE ROSARY:

People did not Always know how to read and write. The rosary was invented to let those people know THE STORY OF JESUS.
That is what is told when doing the rosary. From His Birth to His Death. There are prayers to Mary too. Do you think Jesus is so mad at us because we pray to HIS MOTHER?? Do you remember the 5th commandment?

This is the same reason there are stained glass Windows all throughout Europe. Seems like the Catholic Church was the first to share the bible stories. This goes back to the middle ages, maybe 1,000 or before.


PRAYING TO/BOWING DOWN TO STATUES


Catholics are not supposed to pray TO statues. That's rediculous to say the least. A statue is a representation of a martyr that died for his faith. Sometimes it helps people to pray if they're looking at something. If it does, what difference does it make?
Do you think God thinks they're praying to some other god??

In the Church in my hometown there's a statue of St. Lawrence.
Want to know how he died?
Lawrence was a Young Deacon in Rome. He was only 19 years old.
Emperor Valerian issued an order that all bishops, priests, and deacons should be put to Death. About 255 AD.

St Lawrence was put between a large BBQ grill and roasted over an open flame.
First on one side and then on the other side.

I wonder how many of us would be willing to die for Christ?


MARY REMAINING A VIRGIN

I know the reason Catholics believe this but cannot associate it with anything biblical.
However, if this is what they want to believe, I see no problem with it. What harm does it do except to teach that it would be nice if we had more respect for our bodies.


TALKING TO THE DEAD

I'm going to post from a link.
It explains that there were originally two sets of canonized letters.
When the Protestant reformation took place in 1,500, the reformation leaders decided to use the shorter bible because, for example, the book of the brothers Macabee spoke about the dead and the reformers did not want this idea to be spread.
I'd have to agree, however, Catholics are not supposed to pray TO the dead, but FOR the dead. We could discuss if this is appropriate or not, but we can't say it's pagan.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

First and Second Maccabees are among those books found in the Catholic Bible but not in many of the Protestant Bibles. We Catholics believe that they are the Word of God. Many other Christians do not believe this. The reason for this discrepancy goes back to the end of the first Christian century. At that time there were two listings or canons of books of the Hebrew Scriptures followed by the Jewish scholars. One listing, called the Palestinian canon did not have all the books found in the other listing called the Alexandrian canon. From the very beginning of the Church, the longer Alexandrian listing of books was followed. This lasted all the way to the sixteenth century, when the Protestant reformers chose the shorter Palestinian list for the Protestant bible. Therefore, First and Second Maccabees, Sirach, the Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit and sections of other books are not found in the Protestant Bible but have been recognized as the Word of God by the Church from the first century.

“Why is this important?,” you might ask. Well, these books of the Bible have numerous references to the resurrected life and to prayers for the dead. This was a belief that the Protestant Reformers did not want to emphasize due to Catholic excesses, namely people selling indulgences. Unfortunately, throwing out these books was very much throwing the baby out with the bath water. To preserve the Word of God, they threw out sacred scripture.
Maccabees and Prayers for the Dead - Catholic Journal

 

[blue_ladybug]

Nowhere in any of my posts, have I said that I hate catholics. I don't. I just disagree with most of what they do..

Hi Blue,

This is also for those reading along.
We could learn something about Catholicism maybe and learn not to hate our brothers in Christ.

You know, just because another deomination doesn't agree with ours, Not Only does it not mean they're pagan (Demi's term)
BUT they might even be right!! Who can know for sure?

It seems to me we don't even agree with the early Church theologians who knew an Apostle, or knew someone who did, so how could WE be so sure we're right??

PRAYING WITH ROSARIES

People were not so well-read and intelligent as they are today. The rosary was invented by someone and is used for the same reason that churches in Europe have stained glass Windows. Do you know what the reason is?
TO TELL THE STORY OF JESUS to a community of persons who could not read and would otherwise not know ANY of the bible stories. So, it would seem that the Universal or Catholic church was the first to share the bible.

PRAYING TO/BOWING DOWN TO STATUES

 

[blue_ladybug]

You are ASSUMING that I dislike catholics. I don't. I dislike their religion, that's all..

Maybe if you knew some history, you'd like Catholics A WHOLE LOT MORE. Since it was the Universal or Catholic Church that kept Christianity safe the first few hundred years. I'm sure you know of all the heresies that abounded. Why do you think Christianity is still with us? The CHURCH of that time, as God so willed it, kept our faith together and in one piece.


PRAYING THE ROSARY:

People did not Always know how to read and write. The rosary was invented to let those people know THE STORY OF JESUS.
That is what is told when doing the rosary. From His Birth to His Death. There are prayers to Mary too. Do you think Jesus is so mad at us because we pray to HIS MOTHER?? Do you remember the 5th commandment?

This is the same reason there are stained glass Windows all throughout Europe. Seems like the Catholic Church was the first to share the bible stories. This goes back to the middle ages, maybe 1,000 or before.


PRAYING TO/BOWING DOWN TO STATUES


Catholics are not supposed to pray TO statues. That's rediculous to say the least. A statue is a representation of a martyr that died for his faith. Sometimes it helps people to pray if they're looking at something. If it does, what difference does it make?
Do you think God thinks they're praying to some other god??

In the Church in my hometown there's a statue of St. Lawrence.
Want to know how he died?
Lawrence was a Young Deacon in Rome. He was only 19 years old.
Emperor Valerian issued an order that all bishops, priests, and deacons should be put to Death. About 255 AD.

St Lawrence was put between a large BBQ grill and roasted over an open flame.
First on one side and then on the other side.

I wonder how many of us would be willing to die for Christ?


MARY REMAINING A VIRGIN

I know the reason Catholics believe this but cannot associate it with anything biblical.
However, if this is what they want to believe, I see no problem with it. What harm does it do except to teach that it would be nice if we had more respect for our bodies.


TALKING TO THE DEAD

I'm going to post from a link.
It explains that there were originally two sets of canonized letters.
When the Protestant reformation took place in 1,500, the reformation leaders decided to use the shorter bible because, for example, the book of the brothers Macabee spoke about the dead and the reformers did not want this idea to be spread.
I'd have to agree, however, Catholics are not supposed to pray TO the dead, but FOR the dead. We could discuss if this is appropriate or not, but we can't say it's pagan.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

First and Second Maccabees are among those books found in the Catholic Bible but not in many of the Protestant Bibles. We Catholics believe that they are the Word of God. Many other Christians do not believe this. The reason for this discrepancy goes back to the end of the first Christian century. At that time there were two listings or canons of books of the Hebrew Scriptures followed by the Jewish scholars. One listing, called the Palestinian canon did not have all the books found in the other listing called the Alexandrian canon. From the very beginning of the Church, the longer Alexandrian listing of books was followed. This lasted all the way to the sixteenth century, when the Protestant reformers chose the shorter Palestinian list for the Protestant bible. Therefore, First and Second Maccabees, Sirach, the Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit and sections of other books are not found in the Protestant Bible but have been recognized as the Word of God by the Church from the first century.

“Why is this important?,” you might ask. Well, these books of the Bible have numerous references to the resurrected life and to prayers for the dead. This was a belief that the Protestant Reformers did not want to emphasize due to Catholic excesses, namely people selling indulgences. Unfortunately, throwing out these books was very much throwing the baby out with the bath water. To preserve the Word of God, they threw out sacred scripture.
Maccabees and Prayers for the Dead - Catholic Journal

 

[blue_ladybug]

Why pray for the dead? OBVIOUSLY since they're dead, they don't need to be prayed for.. lol

Maybe if you knew some history, you'd like Catholics A WHOLE LOT MORE. Since it was the Universal or Catholic Church that kept Christianity safe the first few hundred years. I'm sure you know of all the heresies that abounded. Why do you think Christianity is still with us? The CHURCH of that time, as God so willed it, kept our faith together and in one piece.


PRAYING THE ROSARY:

People did not Always know how to read and write. The rosary was invented to let those people know THE STORY OF JESUS.
That is what is told when doing the rosary. From His Birth to His Death. There are prayers to Mary too. Do you think Jesus is so mad at us because we pray to HIS MOTHER?? Do you remember the 5th commandment?

This is the same reason there are stained glass Windows all throughout Europe. Seems like the Catholic Church was the first to share the bible stories. This goes back to the middle ages, maybe 1,000 or before.


PRAYING TO/BOWING DOWN TO STATUES


Catholics are not supposed to pray TO statues. That's rediculous to say the least. A statue is a representation of a martyr that died for his faith. Sometimes it helps people to pray if they're looking at something. If it does, what difference does it make?
Do you think God thinks they're praying to some other god??

In the Church in my hometown there's a statue of St. Lawrence.
Want to know how he died?
Lawrence was a Young Deacon in Rome. He was only 19 years old.
Emperor Valerian issued an order that all bishops, priests, and deacons should be put to Death. About 255 AD.

St Lawrence was put between a large BBQ grill and roasted over an open flame.
First on one side and then on the other side.

I wonder how many of us would be willing to die for Christ?


MARY REMAINING A VIRGIN

I know the reason Catholics believe this but cannot associate it with anything biblical.
However, if this is what they want to believe, I see no problem with it. What harm does it do except to teach that it would be nice if we had more respect for our bodies.


TALKING TO THE DEAD

I'm going to post from a link.
It explains that there were originally two sets of canonized letters.
When the Protestant reformation took place in 1,500, the reformation leaders decided to use the shorter bible because, for example, the book of the brothers Macabee spoke about the dead and the reformers did not want this idea to be spread.
I'd have to agree, however, Catholics are not supposed to pray TO the dead, but FOR the dead. We could discuss if this is appropriate or not, but we can't say it's pagan.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

First and Second Maccabees are among those books found in the Catholic Bible but not in many of the Protestant Bibles. We Catholics believe that they are the Word of God. Many other Christians do not believe this. The reason for this discrepancy goes back to the end of the first Christian century. At that time there were two listings or canons of books of the Hebrew Scriptures followed by the Jewish scholars. One listing, called the Palestinian canon did not have all the books found in the other listing called the Alexandrian canon. From the very beginning of the Church, the longer Alexandrian listing of books was followed. This lasted all the way to the sixteenth century, when the Protestant reformers chose the shorter Palestinian list for the Protestant bible. Therefore, First and Second Maccabees, Sirach, the Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit and sections of other books are not found in the Protestant Bible but have been recognized as the Word of God by the Church from the first century.

“Why is this important?,” you might ask. Well, these books of the Bible have numerous references to the resurrected life and to prayers for the dead. This was a belief that the Protestant Reformers did not want to emphasize due to Catholic excesses, namely people selling indulgences. Unfortunately, throwing out these books was very much throwing the baby out with the bath water. To preserve the Word of God, they threw out sacred scripture.
Maccabees and Prayers for the Dead - Catholic Journal

 

[FranC]

There are people who claim to love Jesus yet follow doctrines of devils. To say people are your brothers regardless of the doctrines they follow is pretty dangerous but that's your choice.

What's so Dangerous about it?
Am I going to die?


There are many Christians with whose doctrine I do not agree and yet I call them my brothers.
A DOCTRINE does not a Christian make.
JESUS makes a Christian.

And who DO YOU say that I am?
If one believe Jesus is the Son of God
Believes in the Godhead or Trinity
Believes he died for their sin and was resurrected

what else does one have to believe to suit YOUR needs?
Do you think God is YOUR denomination and no one else is getting in???

Please don't worry about me, but consider your own feelings and beliefs.