Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Maynard]

You so-called Christians should be ashamed of yourselves, responding to folks the way you do on this board.

 

[Mec99]

Yes i agree Maynard. The Catholics should be ashamed of what they have done.

 

[Maynard]

What have our Catholic brothers and sisters done to you, Mec?

 

[Jackson123]

What have our Catholic brothers and sisters done to you, Mec?

The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust



[SIZE=+3]The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]Seán Mac Mathúna[/SIZE]

[h=4]The Nazi collaborator Archbishop Stepinac (right) and the Vatican representative to fascist Croatia, Abbot Marcone (left). Croatia has recently renamed a village in Krajina after Stepinac. Marcone was Pavelic's confessor and Stepinac was convicted of war crimes after the war. Several members of his clergy were involved in the genocide at Jasenovac - notably the Franciscan priest, Pater Miroslav Filipovic, who was one of the commandants of the camp.[/h]​

 

[fordman]

The Nazi collaborator Archbishop Stepinac (right) and the Vatican representative to fascist Croatia, Abbot Marcone (left). Croatia has recently renamed a village in Krajina after Stepinac. Marcone was Pavelic's confessor and Stepinac was convicted of war crimes after the war. Several members of his clergy were involved in the genocide at Jasenovac - notably the Franciscan priest, Pater Miroslav Filipovic, who was one of the commandants of the camp.

I see you leave out some most important facts reguarding this trial since it dosent meet your anti-Catholic agenda, so let me fill in the blanks!

The trial your post speaks of was under the order of the then Yugoslavian governments communist party. (he was sure to get a fair trial in that atheist regime.) {rolling eyes} In the escalating Cold War atmosphere, and with the Vatican putting forward worldwide publicity,the trial was depicted in the West as a typical communist "show trial", in which the testimony was all false.

Hmmmm..... Jack 123, why did you fail to include this tid-bit of information?

And as for some reactions from the west for this "typical communist show trial."

In the United States, one of Stepinac's biggest supporters was the Archbishop of Boston, Richard Cushing, who delivered several sermons in support of him. U.S. Acting Secretary of State Dean Acheson on October 11, 1946 bemoaned the conditions in Yugoslavia and stated his regret of the trial.

The National Conference of Christians and Jews at the Bronx Round Table adopted a unanimous resolution on October 13 condemning the trial:

"This great churchman has been charged with being a collaborator with the Nazis. We Jews deny that. We know from his record since 1934, that he was a true friend of the Jews...This man, now the victim of a sham trial, all during the Nazi regime spoke out openly, unafraid, against the dreadful Nuremberg Laws, and his opposition to the Nazi terrorism was never relaxed.[SUP]" [/SUP](O'Brien, Anthony. Archbishop Stepinac; The Man and his Case. The Newman Bookshop, 1947. p 80-89.)


In Britain, on 23 October 1946, Mr Richard Stokes MP declared in the House of Commons that, "The archbishop was our constant ally in 1941, during the worst of the crisis, and thereafter, at a time when the Orthodox Church, which is now comme il faut with the Tito Government, was shaking hands with Mussolini..."


On November 1, 1946 Winston Churchill addressed the House of Commons on the subject of the trial, expressing "great sadness" at the result. (Akmadža, Miroslav. Katolička crkva u Hrvatskoj i komunistički režim 1945 - 1966.. Rijeka: Otokar Keršovani, 2004. (pg. 58)

"This trial was prepared in the political sphere. It was for the purpose of dividing the Catholic Church in Croatia from its leadership at the Vatican. Tito has openly expressed this purpose....The trial was not based on justice, but was an outrage on justice. Tito's regime has no interest in justice. It seeks only to stifle opposition." (O'Brien, Anthony. Archbishop Stepinac; The Man and his Case. The Newman Bookshop, 1947. p 80-89.)
​

"Stepinac was one of the very rare men in Europe who raised his voice against the Nazis' tyranny at a time when it was very difficult and dangerous for him to do so."


So.....Jack,,,, why don't you explain to us all why you conveniently left this out of your post?

It makes one wonder how much you leave out on the rest of your anti-Catholic posts!! Kinda smarts, don't it?

Or could it be you are a communist sympathizer as well as a anti-Catholic bigot?


Pax Christi


"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48



p.s.I don't reconize your flag, what country do you hail from?
​

 

[Jackson123]

I see you leave out some most important facts reguarding this trial since it dosent meet your anti-Catholic agenda, so let me fill in the blanks!

The trial your post speaks of was under the order of the then Yugoslavian governments communist party. (he was sure to get a fair trial in that atheist regime.) {rolling eyes} In the escalating Cold War atmosphere, and with the Vatican putting forward worldwide publicity,the trial was depicted in the West as a typical communist "show trial", in which the testimony was all false.

Hmmmm..... Jack 123, why did you fail to include this tid-bit of information?

And as for some reactions from the west for this "typical communist show trial."

In the United States, one of Stepinac's biggest supporters was the Archbishop of Boston, Richard Cushing, who delivered several sermons in support of him. U.S. Acting Secretary of State Dean Acheson on October 11, 1946 bemoaned the conditions in Yugoslavia and stated his regret of the trial.

The National Conference of Christians and Jews at the Bronx Round Table adopted a unanimous resolution on October 13 condemning the trial:

"This great churchman has been charged with being a collaborator with the Nazis. We Jews deny that. We know from his record since 1934, that he was a true friend of the Jews...This man, now the victim of a sham trial, all during the Nazi regime spoke out openly, unafraid, against the dreadful Nuremberg Laws, and his opposition to the Nazi terrorism was never relaxed.[SUP]" [/SUP](O'Brien, Anthony. Archbishop Stepinac; The Man and his Case. The Newman Bookshop, 1947. p 80-89.)


In Britain, on 23 October 1946, Mr Richard Stokes MP declared in the House of Commons that, "The archbishop was our constant ally in 1941, during the worst of the crisis, and thereafter, at a time when the Orthodox Church, which is now comme il faut with the Tito Government, was shaking hands with Mussolini..."


On November 1, 1946 Winston Churchill addressed the House of Commons on the subject of the trial, expressing "great sadness" at the result. (Akmadža, Miroslav. Katolička crkva u Hrvatskoj i komunistički režim 1945 - 1966.. Rijeka: Otokar Keršovani, 2004. (pg. 58)

"This trial was prepared in the political sphere. It was for the purpose of dividing the Catholic Church in Croatia from its leadership at the Vatican. Tito has openly expressed this purpose....The trial was not based on justice, but was an outrage on justice. Tito's regime has no interest in justice. It seeks only to stifle opposition." (O'Brien, Anthony. Archbishop Stepinac; The Man and his Case. The Newman Bookshop, 1947. p 80-89.)
​

"Stepinac was one of the very rare men in Europe who raised his voice against the Nazis' tyranny at a time when it was very difficult and dangerous for him to do so."


So.....Jack,,,, why don't you explain to us all why you conveniently left this out of your post?

It makes one wonder how much you leave out on the rest of your anti-Catholic posts!! Kinda smarts, don't it?

Or could it be you are a communist sympathizer as well as a anti-Catholic bigot?


Pax Christi


"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48



p.s.I don't reconize your flag, what country do you hail from?
​

So you accuse the trial not fair.

Than why Vatican not complain.

how about this:



The Vatican's Holocaust is not a misnomer, an accusation, and even less a speculation. It is an historical fact. Rabid nationalism and religious dogmatism were its two main ingredients. During the existence of Croatia as an independent Catholic State, over 700,000 men, women and children perished. Many were executed, tortured, died of starvation, buried alive, or were burned to death.

Hundreds were forced to become Catholic. Catholic padres ran concentration camps; Catholic priests were officers of the military corps which committed such atrocities.

700,000 in a total population of a few million, proportionally, would be as if one-third of the USA population had been exterminated by a Catholic militia.

What had been gathered in this book will vindicate the veracity of these facts. Dates, names, and places, as well as photos are there to prove them.

They should become known to the American public, not to foster vindictiveness, but to warn them of the danger, which racialism and sectarianism, when allied with religious intolerance can bring to any contemporary nation, whether in Europe or in the New World.

This work should be assessed without prejudice and as a lesson; but even more vital, as a warning for the future of the Americans, beginning with that of the USA.

Avro Manhattan
1986


The Vatican's Holocaust

 

[fordman]

So you accuse the trial not fair.Than why Vatican not complain.

Are you kidding me dude? Did you not read the first paragraph on my post? (The trial your post speaks of was under the order of the then Yugoslavian governments communist party. (he was sure to get a fair trial in that atheist regime.) {rolling eyes} In the escalating Cold War atmosphere, and with the Vatican putting forward worldwide publicity,the trial was depicted in the West as a typical communist "show trial", in which the testimony was all false.)

how about this:

The Vatican's Holocaust is not a misnomer, an accusation, and even less a speculation. It is an historical fact. Rabid nationalism and religious dogmatism were its two main ingredients. During the existence of Croatia as an independent Catholic State, over 700,000 men, women and children perished. Many were executed, tortured, died of starvation, buried alive, or were burned to death.

Hundreds were forced to become Catholic. Catholic padres ran concentration camps; Catholic priests were officers of the military corps which committed such atrocities.

700,000 in a total population of a few million, proportionally, would be as if one-third of the USA population had been exterminated by a Catholic militia.

What had been gathered in this book will vindicate the veracity of these facts. Dates, names, and places, as well as photos are there to prove them.

They should become known to the American public, not to foster vindictiveness, but to warn them of the danger, which racialism and sectarianism, when allied with religious intolerance can bring to any contemporary nation, whether in Europe or in the New World.

This work should be assessed without prejudice and as a lesson; but even more vital, as a warning for the future of the Americans, beginning with that of the USA.

Avro Manhattan
1986

So......What about it? Just more anti-Catholic garble from another anti-Catholic like yourself. Did you happen to do any research on this fella before using his works in your anti-Catholic agenda? Maybe you should have, remember what happened when you used Albert Rivera and how it came back to bite you on the a_ _? My...my, funny how one forgets so quickly. Now lets take a look at this new found "hero" of yours.

Did you know that his was a Freemason? Hmm..... maybe you are too, and this is why you are such a fan of his works. Remember when we were discussing Jack Chick? Well, It's interesting how Jack Chick is the publisher of Avro Manhattan’s books, in spite of Jack Chick condemning Freemasonry as the work of Satan. Jack Chick also employed Avro Manhattan, as an anti-Catholic Church writer for his newspaper, The Battle Cry.

I would not be a bit surprised if you were/are a Freemason, for Freemasonry, historically, has stated that its goal is the destruction of the Catholic Church. It is no wonder that Avro Manhattan had the same goal. Dr. Marie Stopes, Avro Manhattan’s "married lover", also claimed to work to destroy the Catholic Church through articles for her pro-abortion, pro-contraception stand. Hmmmm.... makes me wonder, are you a supporter of Abortion?

In case you didn't know, Dr. Marie Stopes is the recognized founder of the women’s reproductive rights movement and relied on the help and support of her lover Avro Manhattan to attack the Catholic Church who was opposing their efforts to pave the way for legal abortion and acceptance of contraception. She appointed Avro Manhattan a member of the executive committee of her Stopes Birth Control Clinic, London, 1954-59. Sounds like your hero supports Abortion, for what, just to have sex with a married woman? what do you think?

So you see Jack....In short, the work of Avro Manhattan is biased and with an agenda. He has no credentials as a historian and no inside knowledge of the Catholic Church. He was openly attacking the Catholic Church because of the Catholic Church’s pro-life stand, and because as a Freemason he believed the Church to be the enemy to be attacked.

Now lets see what some notable book critics have to say about his writings:

"Anti-Catholic books are no longer assured the success de scandale that was inevitable in the heyday of, say, Paul Blanchard. The reason is obvious: some of the most flamingly anti-Catholic books published today are written by Catholics caught up in the agonies of a reforming Church. Still, Mr. Manhattan goes on, and his new book, like the earlier ones, is a catalogue of the sins, past and present, real and imagined, of the Church of Rome. His thesis is that Catholics are united in a conspiracy to take over the world (""The Catholic Grand Master Plan of Conquest""), and he supports that belief by showing that Catholic power is on the ascendant in countries both non-Catholic (Britain, Australia, Viet Nam, The United States) and Catholic (Italy, Malta, Yugoslavia). No one can reasonably object to the publication of Mr. Manhattan's views. The careful reader, however, can and certainly will, object to the total lack of documentation, to the bitterly vindictive tone of the book, and to the remarkable resemblance--in approach, treatment, and interpretation--of this work to the infamously famous Protocols of the Elders of Zion." ---Kirkus Book Reviews

Did you also know that your new found hero, after writing many anti-Catholic books he (Avro Manhattan) received the Pioneer Award from the American Atheists in 1976?

So you see Jack......Anyone can do their own research and look at the biographies of the people involved in their agendas. Something you may wish to do in the future as to save yourself of more unnnecessary embarrasment


Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---- Luke 1:48. (How about you Jack 123, do you follow what Scripture say's do do?)


p.s. you never said what country you are from, why?

 

[mwc68]

Are you kidding me dude? Did you not read the first paragraph on my post? (The trial your post speaks of was under the order of the then Yugoslavian governments communist party. (he was sure to get a fair trial in that atheist regime.) {rolling eyes} In the escalating Cold War atmosphere, and with the Vatican putting forward worldwide publicity,the trial was depicted in the West as a typical communist "show trial", in which the testimony was all false.)




So......What about it? Just more anti-Catholic garble from another anti-Catholic like yourself. Did you happen to do any research on this fella before using his works in your anti-Catholic agenda? Maybe you should have, remember what happened when you used Albert Rivera and how it came back to bite you on the a_ _? My...my, funny how one forgets so quickly. Now lets take a look at this new found "hero" of yours.

Did you know that his was a Freemason? Hmm..... maybe you are too, and this is why you are such a fan of his works. Remember when we were discussing Jack Chick? Well, It's interesting how Jack Chick is the publisher of Avro Manhattan’s books, in spite of Jack Chick condemning Freemasonry as the work of Satan. Jack Chick also employed Avro Manhattan, as an anti-Catholic Church writer for his newspaper, The Battle Cry.

I would not be a bit surprised if you were/are a Freemason, for Freemasonry, historically, has stated that its goal is the destruction of the Catholic Church. It is no wonder that Avro Manhattan had the same goal. Dr. Marie Stopes, Avro Manhattan’s "married lover", also claimed to work to destroy the Catholic Church through articles for her pro-abortion, pro-contraception stand. Hmmmm.... makes me wonder, are you a supporter of Abortion?

In case you didn't know, Dr. Marie Stopes is the recognized founder of the women’s reproductive rights movement and relied on the help and support of her lover Avro Manhattan to attack the Catholic Church who was opposing their efforts to pave the way for legal abortion and acceptance of contraception. She appointed Avro Manhattan a member of the executive committee of her Stopes Birth Control Clinic, London, 1954-59. Sounds like your hero supports Abortion, for what, just to have sex with a married woman? what do you think?

So you see Jack....In short, the work of Avro Manhattan is biased and with an agenda. He has no credentials as a historian and no inside knowledge of the Catholic Church. He was openly attacking the Catholic Church because of the Catholic Church’s pro-life stand, and because as a Freemason he believed the Church to be the enemy to be attacked.

Now lets see what some notable book critics have to say about his writings:

"Anti-Catholic books are no longer assured the success de scandale that was inevitable in the heyday of, say, Paul Blanchard. The reason is obvious: some of the most flamingly anti-Catholic books published today are written by Catholics caught up in the agonies of a reforming Church. Still, Mr. Manhattan goes on, and his new book, like the earlier ones, is a catalogue of the sins, past and present, real and imagined, of the Church of Rome. His thesis is that Catholics are united in a conspiracy to take over the world (""The Catholic Grand Master Plan of Conquest""), and he supports that belief by showing that Catholic power is on the ascendant in countries both non-Catholic (Britain, Australia, Viet Nam, The United States) and Catholic (Italy, Malta, Yugoslavia). No one can reasonably object to the publication of Mr. Manhattan's views. The careful reader, however, can and certainly will, object to the total lack of documentation, to the bitterly vindictive tone of the book, and to the remarkable resemblance--in approach, treatment, and interpretation--of this work to the infamously famous Protocols of the Elders of Zion." ---Kirkus Book Reviews

Did you also know that your new found hero, after writing many anti-Catholic books he (Avro Manhattan) received the Pioneer Award from the American Atheists in 1976?

So you see Jack......Anyone can do their own research and look at the biographies of the people involved in their agendas. Something you may wish to do in the future as to save yourself of more unnnecessary embarrasment


Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---- Luke 1:48. (How about you Jack 123, do you follow what Scripture say's do do?)


p.s. you never said what country you are from, why?

They hate the Blessed Mary here at CC so they conveniently disregard this verse

 

[fordman]

They hate the Blessed Mary here at CC so they conveniently disregard this verse

And the day will come when those that do, will have to stand before Jesus, and try to explain why they did. tsk...tsk!


Pax Christi


"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---- Luke 1:48.

 

[notuptome]

Revelation 17 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

I wonder what will you do with Jesus?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mwc68]

Revelation 17 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

I wonder what will you do with Jesus?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Another useless attempt to equate this to the Catholic Church. Sad

 

[fordman]

Revelation 17 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

I wonder what will you do with Jesus?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No need to wonder about me, I have no problem with following what Scripture says to do in Luke 1:48. Do you?


Pax Christi


"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed."


p.s. do you consider yourself part of "All Generations" ?

 

[Mec99]

Hmmmm, we need to change the subject.

How about Transubstantiation?

This doctrine teaches that in the miracle of the mass the bread and wine are supernaturally transformed into the body and blood of Christ. This transformation, however, is unique. It is not complete because the changed bread and wine still look like bread and wine. To the senses no change is apparent. Yet the Catholic Church asserts that the bread and wine have become the veritable body and blood of Christ.

The body and blood of Jesus belong properly to his human nature, not his divine nature.

For Christ's physical body and blood to be present at more than one place at the same time, his physical body would need to be Omnipresent! The Lord's Supper is celebrated at the same time in many parts of the World.

Now the question is:
How can the physical body and blood of Jesus be in Paris, London, Canada, and the USA simultaneously?

 

[Mec99]

Yes it is true that all generations will call Mary Blessed.

This not a problem. The problem starts when the Catholics interject their doctrine that Blessed means being without sin.

Luke 6:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Then He lifted up His eyes toward His disciples, and said: "Blessed are you poor, For yours is the kingdom of God.

Does this now mean that ALL poor people are without sin?

If it does they why would anyone need Mary if the poor people are also Blessed just like Mary?

 

[blondieindahouse]

Another useless attempt to equate this to the Catholic Church. Sad

Who do you think it is?

 

[blondieindahouse]

MWC68 why is it I dont see you partaking in other biblically related threads but yet you are very active on this one? Im just curious?

 

[valiant]

And the day will come when those that do, will have to stand before Jesus, and try to explain why they did. tsk...tsk!

"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---- Luke 1:48.

LOL I will be happy to do so, and I will apologise to Him over the way the Roman Catholic church twisted the verse beyond recognition, and magnified the memory of Mary into gross idolatry and blasphemy. Not Mary's fault of course. She is probably completely unaware of it as she worships God along with all other Christians in Heaven..

 

[blondieindahouse]

They hate the Blessed Mary here at CC so they conveniently disregard this verse

Thats an unfair and untrue statement. She is bless-ed . We do not disregard anything! We simply disagree based on scripture that she can be prayed to. Is Mary part of the trinity? Please answer me yes or no.

 

[valiant]

No need to wonder about me, I have no problem with following what Scripture says to do in Luke 1:48. Do you?

"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed."
p.s. do you consider yourself part of "All Generations" ?

She was blessed to be chosen as the Mother of the Messiah. She was not blessed in what the Roman Catholic church subsequently turned her into. She would be horrified if she knew of the blasphemies of the Roman Catholic church associated with her name. Your concentration on this verse, and misrepresentation of it are a demonstration of how barren are your Scriptural proofs. Indeed you have NONE. So you have to distort this verse. Your church is pathetic.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by notuptome Revelation 17 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Another useless attempt to equate this to the Catholic Church. Sad

Do you deny that it was a good description of the Roman Catholic church in the Middle Ages? It looks very applicable to me.