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Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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1, Can you show me what part of the bible tell Mark and Peter in Rome brother?
2. Can you show me Peter was in Rome and it before Paul in ?
3. On origin Clement Letter Professor Michael said that this letter never mention Peter and Paul in Rome together.
In this letter Clement give example 7 saint in the old testament and 7 in the NT that suffered because of Jealousy.
Both Peter and Paul is victim of Jealousy. But not mention they kill because of Jealousy or they reside in Rome.
This letter is to address the church of Corinthian not to jealous each other.
Than Catholic said this letter tell /proved Paul and Peter reside in Rome.
It indicate the direction of lie, and we have to look more carefully about the history of Peter in catholic version.
I suggest you read the link I provide in the previous post brother.
For your own salvation, don't take it lightly.
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mattp0625
Guest
Brother Jackson,
Check out: Col 4:10, 2 Tim 4:11, 1 Peter 5:13, Acts 15:37, and Acts 27. These connect Paul to Mark and Mark to Peter in Rome.
Then check the several historians who put Peter in Rome like Tertullian (200 AD)
Peter was not in charge of the Apostles. If anything Paul was above Peter in Authority.
Peter was given the task of bringing the Gospel to the Jews only. Paul was given the task to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles.
Galatians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles
The message of Salvation to the Gentiles was through Paul not Peter like the Catholics teach. You Catholics really need to read the whole Bible before you open up your mouth to speak.
Also Paul was the one who rebut Peter for what he was doing to the Gentiles.
Galatians 2:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
Paul told Peter he was wrong in what he had done! This shows that Peter was not in charge like the Catholics teach. Paul was in charge over Peter!
2 Corinthians 1:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God.
Paul WAS an Apostle appointed by Jesus Christ!
2 Peter 3:14-16
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as also in ALL his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Peter spoke very highly about Paul and the Wisdom he had from God that he speaks to us today in the Epistles from Paul!
God used Peter only for the Jewish People! For the rest of us God has used Paul to bring us the Truth in the Scriptures!
The Catholics need to listen to what Paul says because God put Paul in charge of the True Christian Church, not Peter.
Peter was given the task of bringing the Gospel to the Jews only. Paul was given the task to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles.
Galatians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles
The message of Salvation to the Gentiles was through Paul not Peter like the Catholics teach. You Catholics really need to read the whole Bible before you open up your mouth to speak.
Also Paul was the one who rebut Peter for what he was doing to the Gentiles.
Galatians 2:11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
Paul told Peter he was wrong in what he had done! This shows that Peter was not in charge like the Catholics teach. Paul was in charge over Peter!
2 Corinthians 1:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God.
Paul WAS an Apostle appointed by Jesus Christ!
2 Peter 3:14-16
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as also in ALL his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Peter spoke very highly about Paul and the Wisdom he had from God that he speaks to us today in the Epistles from Paul!
God used Peter only for the Jewish People! For the rest of us God has used Paul to bring us the Truth in the Scriptures!
The Catholics need to listen to what Paul says because God put Paul in charge of the True Christian Church, not Peter.
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mattp0625
Guest
Nothing to see here, move along
- Acts 1: Peter decides that Judas should be replaced.
- Acts 2: Peter speaks to the crowds at Pentecost and converts thousands.
- Acts 3: Peter heals a lame man and again addresses the crowds.
- Acts 4: Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, addresses the Jewish rulers, priests, and scribes.
- Acts 5: Peter speaks the death sentence upon Ananias and Sapphira.
- Acts 8: Peter rebukes Simon.
- Acts 9: Saul's conversion; Peter raises the dead and heals the paralyzed.
- Acts 10: Peter, at God's direct command, opens the door to the Gentiles.
- Acts 11: The Judaizers came to Peter to complain.
- Acts 12: Peter is arrested and saved by an angel.
- Acts 15: Peter decides the issue at the Council of Jerusalem, and after he finishes speaking, "all the assembly kept silence."
- Peter walked on water
- Peter called for a replacement to Judas
- Peter settled the issue at the Council of Jerusalem
- Peter was appointed, by Jesus, as shepherd of Jesus' flock
- Jesus prayed specifically for Peter
- Peter spoke for the Apostles on the Day of Pentecost
- Peter received a special vision from God to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles
- Peter was given a special revelation about Jesus being the Messiah
- Peter was given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven
- Jesus paid the temple tax for Himself and Peter only
- Paul comes to Peter to consult with him
- Peter generally speaks for all the Apostles
- Peter spoke judgment upon Ananias and Sapphira
- Peter has his name changed to "Rock."
The church that Jesus founded was not in Rome but of all places Jerusalem.
The RCC will not address your point about Christ being the rock upon which the church is founded because you went and gave additional supporting references from the bible.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Peter made a decision to replace Judas but it was not a decision that he received from God. Jesus later filled Judas' place with Paul then Saul of Tarsus. The apostles appointed by men amounted to little. Paul however changed the world with his preaching of Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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DesiredHaven
Guest
- Acts 1: Peter decides that Judas should be replaced.
- Acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
- Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Theres one Peter was being instructed out of the psalm that was decided beofre him
Peter rebukes Simon, Paul rebukes Peter lol what are those doing in there?
I see references to Mark in numerous places in connection with Paul, but not specifically in Rome except as a visitor. But the reference to Peter says he was in Babylon. So this is no evidence at all of Peter as being in Rome.
Do you really see someone writing 150 years later as evidence? If I wrote about someone who lived 150 years ago in 1865 it would only be very much on hearsay, and could not be counted on as being reliable. And in your eyes Tertullian was a heretic. Yet you believe his evidence?. I guess you have to in order to support a very doubtful case.
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mattp0625
Guest
Acts references Italy. No one denies Paul was in Rome in prison.
i guess you must reject all historical writing everywhere. How can it be true if it was written after it happened ?
i guess you must reject all historical writing everywhere. How can it be true if it was written after it happened ?
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DesiredHaven
Guest
- Acts 3: Peter heals a lame man and again addresses the crowds. (Paul adressed crowds and rebuked Peter)
yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Jesus said,
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; (Paul...Acts 16:18, & 19:12) they shall speak with new tongues; (Paul 1 Cr 14:18)
- Paul healed...
Acts 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them,and the evil spirits went out of them.
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; (Paul Acts 28:5) they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.(Paul Acts 14:9, 20:10, Acts 28:8-9)
Among those I know who have converted are two Catholic ex-nuns and a Catholic ex-priest.
I'm not comfortable with involving anyone with this website.
BTW the Catholic ex-priest went to work in the Charles Stanley ministries.
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mattp0625
Guest
got it! Not the leader. Just impulsive!! That must be why Jesus Christ names him Rock and gave him the keys to heaven
I was referring to MARK as all over the place only visiting Rome occasionally.
If it was written 150 years afterwards my first question would be, what was his source? Hearsay? Then not very reliable. But even Tertullian only places him in Rome to die there. He says nothing about him being in Rome otherwise. For you he is a damp squib.
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mattp0625
Guest
Historian some time lie brother. For example history about 1965 Communist rebellion in indonesia. If you read
Government version, it said, it is communist rebellion and they kill 17 General.
If you read from professor Ben Anderson, I believe from Chicago University that make investigation in Indonesia for several years and He speak good Indonesian, say it is CIA Behind Suharto, Kill 17 general that loyal to the first Indonesian president. Because Indonesian resign from United Nation. So CIA want to remove him and replace with Suharto.
Which is right? I think Professor Anderson is.
So history serve interest, and not always pure.
I copy all The verse you give me bellow, can you explain to me why you conclude these verse as Peter is in Rome?
For example, it say greeting from Babylon, If you read the link I give it to you, it will explain, famous Jews historian, Joshepus said, Babylon is code for Rome after 70 AD. That because Rome destroy the temple at 70 AD. similar to Babylon destroy the temple, I believe in Daniel time.
and Peter die at 67 AD/ mean when he wrote the letter, Babylon is not code for Rome yet.
[h=1]Colossians 4:10-18New International Version (NIV)[/h]10 My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. (You have received instructions about him; if he comes to you, welcome him.
[h=1]2 Timothy 4:11New International Version (NIV)[/h]11 Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, because he is helpful to me in my ministry.
New International Version (NIV)
[h=1]1 Peter 5:13New International Version (NIV)[/h]13 She who is in Babylon, chosen together with you, sends you her greetings, and so does my son Mark.
New International Version (NIV)
[h=1]Acts 15:37New International Version (NIV)[/h]37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them,
New International Version (NIV)
[h=3]Paul Sails for Rome[/h]27 When it was decided that we would sail for Italy, Paul and some other prisoners were handed over to a centurion named Julius, who belonged to the Imperial Regiment. 2 We boarded a ship from Adramyttium about to sail for ports along the coast of the province of Asia, and we put out to sea. Aristarchus, a Macedonian from Thessalonica, was with us.
3 The next day we landed at Sidon; and Julius, in kindness to Paul, allowed him to go to his friends so they might provide for his needs. 4 From there we put out to sea again and passed to the lee of Cyprus because the winds were against us. 5 When we had sailed across the open sea off the coast of Ciliciaand Pamphylia, we landed at Myra in Lycia. 6 There the centurion found an Alexandrian ship sailing for Italy and put us on board. 7 We made slow headway for many days and had difficulty arriving off Cnidus. When the wind did not allow us to hold our course, we sailed to the lee of Crete, opposite Salmone. 8 We moved along the coast with difficulty and came to a place called Fair Havens, near the town of Lasea.
9 Much time had been lost, and sailing had already become dangerous because by now it was after the Day of Atonement.[a] So Paul warned them, 10 “Men, I can see that our voyage is going to be disastrous and bring great loss to ship and cargo, and to our own lives also.” 11 But the centurion, instead of listening to what Paul said, followed the advice of the pilot and of the owner of the ship. 12 Since the harbor was unsuitable to winter in, the majority decided that we should sail on, hoping to reach Phoenix and winter there. This was a harbor in Crete, facing both southwest and northwest.
[h=3]The Storm[/h]13 When a gentle south wind began to blow, they saw their opportunity; so they weighed anchor and sailed along the shore of Crete. 14 Before very long, a wind of hurricane force, called the Northeaster, swept down from the island. 15 The ship was caught by the storm and could not head into the wind; so we gave way to it and were driven along. 16 As we passed to the lee of a small island called Cauda, we were hardly able to make the lifeboat secure, 17 so the men hoisted it aboard. Then they passed ropes under the ship itself to hold it together. Because they were afraid they would run aground on the sandbars of Syrtis, they lowered the sea anchor[b] and let the ship be driven along. 18 We took such a violent battering from the storm that the next day they began to throw the cargo overboard. 19 On the third day, they threw the ship’s tackle overboard with their own hands. 20 When neither sun nor stars appeared for many days and the storm continued raging, we finally gave up all hope of being saved.
21 After they had gone a long time without food, Paul stood up before them and said: “Men, you should have taken my advice not to sail from Crete; then you would have spared yourselves this damage and loss. 22 But now I urge you to keep up your courage, because not one of you will be lost; only the ship will be destroyed. 23 Last night an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I serve stood beside me 24 and said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul. You must stand trial before Caesar; and God has graciously given you the lives of all who sail with you.’ 25 So keep up your courage, men, for I have faith in God that it will happen just as he told me. 26 Nevertheless, we must run aground on some island.”
[h=3]The Shipwreck[/h]27 On the fourteenth night we were still being driven across the Adriatic[c] Sea, when about midnight the sailors sensed they were approaching land. 28 They took soundings and found that the water was a hundred and twenty feet[d] deep. A short time later they took soundings again and found it was ninety feet[e] deep. 29 Fearing that we would be dashed against the rocks, they dropped four anchors from the stern and prayed for daylight. 30 In an attempt to escape from the ship, the sailors let the lifeboat down into the sea, pretending they were going to lower some anchors from the bow. 31 Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.” 32 So the soldiers cut the ropes that held the lifeboat and let it drift away.
33 Just before dawn Paul urged them all to eat. “For the last fourteen days,” he said, “you have been in constant suspense and have gone without food—you haven’t eaten anything. 34 Now I urge you to take some food. You need it to survive. Not one of you will lose a single hair from his head.” 35 After he said this, he took some bread and gave thanks to God in front of them all. Then he broke it and began to eat. 36 They were all encouraged and ate some food themselves. 37 Altogether there were 276 of us on board. 38 When they had eaten as much as they wanted, they lightened the ship by throwing the grain into the sea.
39 When daylight came, they did not recognize the land, but they saw a bay with a sandy beach, where they decided to run the ship aground if they could. 40 Cutting loose the anchors, they left them in the sea and at the same time untied the ropes that held the rudders. Then they hoisted the foresail to the wind and made for the beach. 41 But the ship struck a sandbar and ran aground. The bow stuck fast and would not move, and the stern was broken to pieces by the pounding of the surf.
42 The soldiers planned to kill the prisoners to prevent any of them from swimming away and escaping.43 But the centurion wanted to spare Paul’s life and kept them from carrying out their plan. He ordered those who could swim to jump overboard first and get to land. 44 The rest were to get there on planks or on other pieces of the ship. In this way everyone reached land safely.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
And you wonder why I doubt your intelligence? I must call my friend Rocky. Maybe he'll be the next Pope lol.
Jesus did NOT give him the keys of Heaven. What an absurd suggestion. He gave him keys to the Kingly Rule of Heaven (God) which was about to be established ON EARTH which gave him power to bind and loose, in other words to make decisions concerning it. He later gave the same authority to ALL the Apostles (Matt 18.18).
You really do play fast and loose with Scripture. No wonder the Roman Catholics have conned you so easily
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mattp0625
Guest
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