Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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True, it must. But what the Bible actually says, not just some individuals interpretation of it says.
Is this bellow inline with the bible? did Abraham God same as Islam God?
Did Abraham God Allah?
show me the verse that said Abraham God and muslim god is the same.
DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
[SIZE=+1]LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964[/SIZE]
CHAPTER II
But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things
Lumen Gentium is just saying that God can save muslims also if He so chooses and that they worship the same God as us. It is not saying that Islam is true. They worship Him in a way that isn't proper. Keep in mind their have been many people who have been born, lived, and died without ever hearing the gospel. God provides them a way of salvation as well, but even then its still through Christ.
Did you read this sentence?
1. Along with us = together with us/catholic and abraham.
2. adore/worship one and merciful God. = Islam god and catholic god and abraham god is same god/Allah?
Where in this sentence said God can save muslim if he chooses they whorsip the same God.
There is no if in this sentence.
along with us adore the one and merciful God,
who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things
God did not need Mary to be without sin dallasb78.
Its the Scriptures ONLY that has all the Truths from God, not the Scriptures and the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did not appear until centuries after Jesus died on the Cross and the history books proves it.
Its a shame there are people like you who see nothing wrong with teaching the lies from Satan as Truths from God. You are Worshiping Stan as your God when you teach his lies as Truths from God.
Do you really think dallasb78 that God will not punish you for what you are doing?
Matthew 7:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
God clearly here says you will be thrown in the fire dallasb78. Is this really what you want? You are not fighting against me or the other True Christians in here with your lies, you are actually fighting against God by teaching the lies from the Catholic Church.
You can believe anything you want, God will allow you to, but when you teach these lies as being from God you are fighting against God and everything that is Holy.
God is not asleep dallasb78, He has know since the beginning of Creation that you would walk away from Him to teach lies from the Catholic Church.
Its not about Mary being sinless, its not about claiming only the Catholic Church has the Truths, its about you doing the will of Satan. It all boils down to you. Its you who you are hurting, its you who will spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire. Its you who will never be allowed to enter into Heaven. Is your pride that great that you cannot humble yourself before God?
Is your pride of being a Catholic that great that you are willing to spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire?
There is no sin that God cannot forgive us for doing. Its up to you dallasb78. Either you walk in fellowship with God and His Truths or you walk in darkness in your sins. Its your choice.
Its the Scriptures ONLY that has all the Truths from God, not the Scriptures and the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did not appear until centuries after Jesus died on the Cross and the history books proves it.
Its a shame there are people like you who see nothing wrong with teaching the lies from Satan as Truths from God. You are Worshiping Stan as your God when you teach his lies as Truths from God.
Do you really think dallasb78 that God will not punish you for what you are doing?
Matthew 7:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
God clearly here says you will be thrown in the fire dallasb78. Is this really what you want? You are not fighting against me or the other True Christians in here with your lies, you are actually fighting against God by teaching the lies from the Catholic Church.
You can believe anything you want, God will allow you to, but when you teach these lies as being from God you are fighting against God and everything that is Holy.
God is not asleep dallasb78, He has know since the beginning of Creation that you would walk away from Him to teach lies from the Catholic Church.
Its not about Mary being sinless, its not about claiming only the Catholic Church has the Truths, its about you doing the will of Satan. It all boils down to you. Its you who you are hurting, its you who will spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire. Its you who will never be allowed to enter into Heaven. Is your pride that great that you cannot humble yourself before God?
Is your pride of being a Catholic that great that you are willing to spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire?
There is no sin that God cannot forgive us for doing. Its up to you dallasb78. Either you walk in fellowship with God and His Truths or you walk in darkness in your sins. Its your choice.
(me take plunge into long running thread)
is the bible properly interpreted by the individual or by the church as a whole?
if it's the whole, then the question is which group represents that church... (also, imo it wouldn't make sense to use an individual approach to see if the group interpretation was correct)
if it's the individual, then a question is why two intelligent, sincere people will read the same passage and come away with two different ideas... also, one must decide, as an individual, which books are the bible...
is the bible properly interpreted by the individual or by the church as a whole?
if it's the whole, then the question is which group represents that church... (also, imo it wouldn't make sense to use an individual approach to see if the group interpretation was correct)
if it's the individual, then a question is why two intelligent, sincere people will read the same passage and come away with two different ideas... also, one must decide, as an individual, which books are the bible...
In my opinion. bible properly interpreted by individual or church as a whole if the individual or church as a whole led by Holy Spirit.
History prove that church as a whole often corrupt and interpreted the bible base on Money.
If they want money than they said if you pay me, your sin will be forgiven.
In my opinion this sentence bellow/part of lumen gentium. Is corrupt teaching.
Vatican want one world religion than make this teaching to embrace Muslim.
Regardless bible teaching as long as she/vatican achieve her goal to rule the world.
please google vatican call for one world religion.
along with us adore the one and merciful God,
who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things
[h=3]One World Religion - Now The End Begins[/h]www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?cat=3133
Jul 23, 2015 - This seal proclaims that the One World Religion spoken up by Daniel the ... Lutheran Church And Vatican Announce 'Common Liturgical Material' Partnership ..... The House of One, as it is being called, will be a synagogue, ...
[h=3]The Pope's Push for a One-World Religion[/h]www.reachingcatholics.org/pope.html
One of the greatest dangers to Christianity today is the deliberate ... Vatican's strategy for bringing the world under the dominion of the papacy. ... opportunity to call the attention of all believers to the ecumenical commitment that marked VC II.
[h=3]One World Religion - The Freedom Articles[/h]freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/pope-positioning-one-world-religi...
Jun 23, 2015 - The push to make the Pope the head of the UN One World Religion has been ... idea is to create a UN-like organization called the “United Religions”. ... Is he aware of statements made by former high-up Vatican officials like ...
[h=3]One World Religion | News that matters[/h]ivarfjeld.com/category/one-world-religion/
Posts about One World Religion written by ivarfjeld and sueliz1. ... The Vaticanincludes Muslims as a part of God`s plan of salvation. .... With Pope Francis, too, callingfor more dialogue with Islam, secularism is the taste of things to come.
Jul 23, 2015 - This seal proclaims that the One World Religion spoken up by Daniel the ... Lutheran Church And Vatican Announce 'Common Liturgical Material' Partnership ..... The House of One, as it is being called, will be a synagogue, ...
[h=3]The Pope's Push for a One-World Religion[/h]www.reachingcatholics.org/pope.html
One of the greatest dangers to Christianity today is the deliberate ... Vatican's strategy for bringing the world under the dominion of the papacy. ... opportunity to call the attention of all believers to the ecumenical commitment that marked VC II.
[h=3]One World Religion - The Freedom Articles[/h]freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/pope-positioning-one-world-religi...
Jun 23, 2015 - The push to make the Pope the head of the UN One World Religion has been ... idea is to create a UN-like organization called the “United Religions”. ... Is he aware of statements made by former high-up Vatican officials like ...
[h=3]One World Religion | News that matters[/h]ivarfjeld.com/category/one-world-religion/
Posts about One World Religion written by ivarfjeld and sueliz1. ... The Vaticanincludes Muslims as a part of God`s plan of salvation. .... With Pope Francis, too, callingfor more dialogue with Islam, secularism is the taste of things to come.
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zzz98
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They will always acccuse you of devil worship. This is not a Catholic friendly site.
Listen to yourself. You are attempting to rationalize Islam and equate it with Romanism. Islam's heritage comes not through Isaac but through Ishmael. Islam claims that because Ishmael was first born he was denied his rightful heritage. Hence why Islam wants to destroy Israel.
God has declared that there is only one way to eternal life. That way is Christ. Islam will never accept Christ as Jehovah God incarnate.
Study Romans chapter one and see how men who know what they are doing go about to change God into something that suits their liking. The results are not good but they do not care.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
then the question is how do you know if an individual or group is being led by the Spirit?
many people will answer that their teachings will line up with the bible.
but then a person has to know what the right interpretation of the bible is to know if it lines up or not.
so, imo, it brings us back to the earlier question, interpretation by individual or group?
Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit leads into the truth. No man can comprehend the truth of the word of God apart from the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Comforter and the Vicar of Christ. He abides in all born again Christians.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
In human perspective, we have to question every teaching and compare to the bible.
For example there is a teaching, Give me money and I forgive your sin.
It is not in the bible. So it not from the Lord.
In spiritual perspective. Bible promise the Holy spirit to teach us about the will of God.
As long as we serious and have genuine faith in Jesus, He will direct us to the real Truth.
Abide in Me Jesus said you will bear the fruit.
Individual can be wrong or right depend on whether he or she abide in Him or not.
Church can be wrong or right, depend on whether she abide in Him or corrupt.
Right! so, does the Spirit lead each person into truth individually, each on their own path,
or, does the Spirit lead the Body of Christ as a whole, and if one wants to know the truth of the bible, follow the Body as a whole...
depending on how a person answers that, it usually lines up with whether they are Catholic or Protestant.
imo, both positions are logical, they just start with different assumptions...
sounds good! so, in order to compare to the bible then, you kind of fall into the "Spirit gives interpretations to individuals" camp... imo...
here's a similar idea folks might be interested in... (and I'm trying not to argue for or against catholicism, just talking about things...)
who wrote the book of Romans? you could say "God" or you could say "Paul"... Paul was the human agent God used to write it.
When did Paul write it? maybe AD 40 or 50.
Then, who wrote the table of contents of the bible? the human agent?
when was it written?
who wrote the book of Romans? you could say "God" or you could say "Paul"... Paul was the human agent God used to write it.
When did Paul write it? maybe AD 40 or 50.
Then, who wrote the table of contents of the bible? the human agent?
when was it written?
Actually, Catholicism adheres to the basic tenets of Christian orthodoxy as defined by the Creeds (which, btw, are based on scripture). This is the SAME orthodoxy (and the same creeds) observed by the vast majority of Christendom.
The groups and individuals who claim that the Roman Catholic Church is "not Christian" have either:
A. created their own "orthodoxy"
B. fail to understand what orthodoxy is and how it is important in the history of the Church OR
C. understand orthodoxy, accept orthodoxy, but elevate non-essential doctrines to support their dislike and to make the claim of "not Christian"
For example, prayer to the saints is a non-essential doctrine.
I think it is useful for Christians to familiarize themselves with the Creeds (Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian). Additionally, it's probably also useful for people to recognize that the vast majority of doctrines that they find objectionable within the RCC are also present within the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Episcopal Church, some sects of Presbyterianism, some sects of Methodism, etc. So, it might be important for people to decide how small they want God's kingdom to be.
