Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Elin]

To say Jesus is Mary son forever is false.

It is just looking for loopholes in order to incorporate the teachings of the Roman pagan queen of heaven

The human body of Jesus is forever the son of Mary who gave him birth.

 

[valiant]

The human body of Jesus is forever the son of Mary who gave him birth.

we have no grounds for thinking that human relationships stay the same after death. thus your assumption is invalid.

 

[valiant]

No, it is the bile with which you speak. The same as Allin, who accused the Pope of eating children with Queen Elizabeth II, the same as Jackson123, whose understanding of Catholicism was hand fed to him by Putin and the KGB, the same as Jeff, who is constantly commenting after every post I make anywhere else on this site to the point that its starting to feel like stalking and harassment, the same as notuptome, who constantly tries to show up anyone and everyone who disagrees with him on the tiniest of issues. Its the same hate. The same venom. The saddest part is that it is inciting us to anger and you are swallowing it.

Have you come to talk, no. You came to proclaim us heretics, evil, devious, supporters of pedophilia, and you've done it under the guise of "I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your church, don't take this personally." Except you do realize that it is a personal attack that insinuates that either we are stupid or evil.

You continue and continue and where is RoboOp who started this thread...no where. He hasn't posted in pages upon pages. This thread has gone over the same information over and over and over again. Never stopping to the point we've hit 158 pages. After a while you get tired, but then someone insults someone or new blood on the website keeps it going and going and going.

Honestly, it's time for the mods to lock this thread, declaring no one the winner, except the CC community at large.

Valiant, look at people like AgeofKnowledge, WashedbythebloodofJesus, Tintin, etc. None of them are Catholic, all of them like you don't like the Catholic Church and Catholic doctrine, but they show love and kindness. They aren't speaking out of anger or hate or rage. They've never once accused us or insinuated our support of pedophiles or homosexuals. Instead, they've argued on facts. And look...they post maybe once every twenty pages or so...the rest is just monotonous constant repeating of arguments over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over.

Have I gotten my point across. I damn well hope so. Time to lock this thread, I'm done.

you talk nonsense out of ignorance. I can see everyone is wrong but you lol. actually I came on to mediate. but your attitude produces reaction. you try to deceive in order to win your argument. unfortunately for you I knew too much to be deceived, your point is invalid and you know it. but it fits what you are. your church always starts moaning and throwing insults when the truth about it comes out. as it is it will be nice to see the back of you, goodbye may God graciously open your eyes to your folly.

 

[tourist]

we have no grounds for thinking that human relationships stay the same after death. thus your assumption is invalid.

The relationship that you have with someone may change because the dynamic has changed but blood relationships will never change. Jesus was born of Mary his mother and that will never change. Now, his relationship with his step-father may or may not change. That would depend on the attitude of both parties, whether Jesus wants to call him Dad and Joseph wants to call him son. Mary will always have the right to call Jesus her son because she actually gave birth to him.

 

[valiant]

I do agree with the 1,000 year reign of Christ here on earth as all Christians should, because even when prophecies use symbolism they still stand for a literal event to happen. To take the literal away from prophecy is to take away from the word of God.
However were do you get that Jesus coming back 500 years from now. How do you come by that ?
We are not to try and put a date or timeline on His return as He said clearly no man will know..................

Except that nowhere in the Bible does it speak of a 1000 year reign ON EARTH. There is no mention of earth concerning Jesus' reign in REV 20. The souls of departed Christians live and reign with Christ. Clearly this is in Heaven. And it is taking place NOW. But this is not the thread to argue this on.

 

[valiant]

The relationship that you have with someone may change because the dynamic has changed but blood relationships will never change. Jesus was born of Mary his mother and that will never change. Now, his relationship with his step-father may or may not change. That would depend on the attitude of both parties, whether Jesus wants to call him Dad and Joseph wants to call him son. Mary will always have the right to call Jesus her son because she actually gave birth to him.

There will be no blood relationships beyond the grave. In the world to come we will be as the angels (Matt 22). Mary will be worshiping Jesus along with all who are His. She will have no special position. Do you really think that people would be happy in Heaven with all their blood relations missing, while others had all their relations. The mind boggles. .

 

[kennethcadwell]

Except that nowhere in the Bible does it speak of a 1000 year reign ON EARTH. There is no mention of earth concerning Jesus' reign in REV 20. The souls of departed Christians live and reign with Christ. Clearly this is in Heaven. And it is taking place NOW. But this is not the thread to argue this on.

No it is not taking place now for the first resurrection has not taken place yet, and those who are brought up in the first resurrection are the ones who are living and reigning with Christ for these 1,000 years. The first resurrection has to take place first which it has not, and if it did then you are condemning the rest of us as those taken in the second resurrection will face judgment and the second death..

 

[Elin]

we have no grounds for thinking that human relationships stay the same after death. thus your assumption is invalid.

Birthing is not just a relationship, it is a matter of origin.

For all eternity, Jesus' earthly body originated in Mary's body, no matter what the relationship in eternity.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Birthing is not just a relationship, it is a matter of origin.

For all eternity, Jesus' earthly body originated in Mary's body, no matter what the relationship in eternity.

But even during His earthly ministry Jesus did not give Mary a higher standard then others.....

[h=1]Matthew 12:46-50[/h]46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

 

[Elin]

No it is not taking place now for the first resurrection has not taken place yet,

If the first resurrection is of your spirit from spiritual death to eternal life at the new birth, then the first resurrection has taken place.

and those who are brought up in the first resurrection are the ones who are living and reigning with Christ for these 1,000 years. The first resurrection has to take place first which it has not, and if it did then you are condemning the rest of us as those taken in the second resurrection will face judgment and the second death..

 

[Elin]

But even during His earthly ministry Jesus did not give Mary a higher standard then others.....

Matthew 12:46-50

46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

It's not about "standard."

It's about physiology.

 

[valiant]

No it is not taking place now for the first resurrection has not taken place yet, and those who are brought up in the first resurrection are the ones who are living and reigning with Christ for these 1,000 years. The first resurrection has to take place first which it has not, and if it did then you are condemning the rest of us as those taken in the second resurrection will face judgment and the second death..

But the first resurrection HAS taken place. It was the resurrection of Jesus Christ. All who are Christians have taken part in that resurrection by being raised with Christ and seated at His right hand in heavenly places (Eph 2.5-6). You will notice that it was the SOULS of those who had experienced the first resurrection which were reigning with Jesus. They were reigning with Christ in Heaven, we are reigning with Him on earth and yet also with Him in the heavenlies as Eph 2.6 makes clear. You are missing out on a glorious privilege by not being aware of it.

The resurrection of the body is the second resurrection. First Jesus Christ and those who rise with Him, then, second, they that are Christ's at His coming.

 

[kennethcadwell]

If the first resurrection is of your spirit from spiritual death to eternal life at the new birth, then the first resurrection has taken place.

That is not the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is what is spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. When we are gathered up together and changed into our spiritual bodies in a twinkling of an eye to be with the Lord in the air. Not when a person is born again through baptism in the faith.....

It's not about "standard."

It's about physiology.

But then again you would be looking at it in human terms and not spiritual, as the bible addresses this as we will all be the same in like mind and He says there will be no marriage or given in marriage. Because the things that apply down here on earth in the relationship standard will not be held in heaven. Plus it says at the end when the new heaven and new earth comes He will wipe away all tears and sadness, and how does this take place if some family members will not end up with salvation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

But the first resurrection HAS taken place. It was the resurrection of Jesus Christ. All who are Christians have taken part in that resurrection by being raised with Christ and seated at His right hand in heavenly places (Eph 2.5-6). You will notice that it was the SOULS of those who had experienced the first resurrection which were reigning with Jesus. They were reigning with Christ in Heaven, we are reigning with Him on earth and yet also with Him in the heavenlies as Eph 2.6 makes clear. You are missing out on a glorious privilege by not being aware of it.

The resurrection of the body is the second resurrection. First Jesus Christ and those who rise with Him, then, second, they that are Christ's at His coming.

Ephesians 2 has nothing to do with the first resurrection, as it is speaking of those who were once disobedient are now made obedient in the faith through Christ. We are lifted up and made spiritually alive instead of walking spiritually dead, and there for will reign with Him in heaven. The first resurrection takes place after the man of sin is revealed, and not before as Paul clearly says.........

 

[Jackson123]

The human body of Jesus is forever the son of Mary who gave him birth.

1. Jesus is God, the bible say God is spirit.

2. Did Mary give birth Jesus spirit?

To say Mary is mother of Jesus forever is to incorporate Roman Pagan teaching, Mary is queen of heaven.

 

[Elin]

That is not the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is what is spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. When we are gathered up together and changed into our spiritual bodies in a twinkling of an eye to be with the Lord in the air. Not when a person is born again through baptism in the faith.....

We are born again by the Holy Spirit.

And there is no NT teaching that the general resurrection is the first resurrection.

It's not about "standard."

It's about physiology.

But then again you would be looking at it in human terms and not spiritual, as the bible addresses this as we will all be the same in like mind and He says there will be no marriage or given in marriage. Because the things that apply down here on earth in the relationship standard will not be held in heaven. Plus it says at the end when the new heaven and new earth comes He will wipe away all tears and sadness, and how does this take place if some family members will not end up with salvation.

Yes, because we are still humans in eternity, which does not alter our human origins.

 

[Elin]

The human body of Jesus is forever the son of Mary who gave him birth.

1. Jesus is God, the bible say God is spirit.

Was Jesus not also human?

2. Did Mary give birth Jesus spirit?

To say Mary is mother of Jesus forever is to incorporate Roman Pagan teaching, Mary is queen of heaven.

 

[kennethcadwell]

We are born again by the Holy Spirit.

And there is no NT teaching that the general resurrection is the first resurrection.


Yes, because we are still humans in eternity, which does not alter our human origins.

Have you died in the flesh physically or has the Lord returned ?
No so the first resurrection can not have taken place yet because it clearly says the dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive will be raised and changed in a twinkling in a eye into a new spiritual body to be with the Lord together. This is all one event, and does not refer to being born again through baptism.

And yes born again is through baptism, as we die to sin by being buried with Him when immersed in water in His name and then we rise in a new Spiritual mindset with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit placed in us by Him. For there is no condemnation for those in Christ who walk by the Spirit, and not by the flesh. I had to highlight that because some in their teaching like to leave that part off.

We are transformed into new spiritual bodies, we do not retain our fleshly human bodies as the bible makes clear flesh and bone can not inherit the kingdom of heaven.........

 

[valiant]

Ephesians 2 has nothing to do with the first resurrection, as it is speaking of those who were once disobedient are now made obedient in the faith through Christ. We are lifted up and made spiritually alive instead of walking spiritually dead, and there for will reign with Him in heaven. The first resurrection takes place after the man of sin is revealed, and not before as Paul clearly says.........

Paul says nothing about the first resurrection apart from in 1 Cor 15 where Jesus was first raised from the dead. But in Acts 26.23 it says, 'that the Christ must suffer, and that by being the FIRST TO RISE FROM THE DEAD, He would proclaim light ---'.
Scripturally this is the first resurrection.

Consider the resurrections -

first Christ (Acts 26,23; 1 Cor 15.20). Each in HIS OWN ORDER - Christ the firstfruits (first resurrection), THEN (second resurrection) those who are Christ's at His coming (1 Cor 15,23).

But these are preceded by the saints in Jerusalem after Christ's resurrection (Matt 27.52-53).

And the Scripture is clear that all who truly believe in Christ partake of the first resurrection when they do so (Rom 6.5; Eph 2.5-6). They are RAISED with Him and seated at His right hand, reigning in Heaven (Eph 2.5-6). It could not be clearer.

 

[valiant]

Have you died in the flesh physically or has the Lord returned ?
No so the first resurrection can not have taken place yet

It does not say the first physical resurrection AFTER Christ's resurrection. As Rev 20 makes clear it is the resurrection of their SOULS. The first resurrection is that of Jesus in which they partake so that as SOULS they can live and reign with Christ in accordance with Eph 2.5-6.

because it clearly says the dead in Christ will rise first,

yes, as it goes on to show, first before the transformation of the living saints, 'the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together to meet the LORD in the air.' But it does not say that it is the first resurrection. Christ's was the first resurrection.

then we who are alive will be raised and changed in a twinkling in a eye into a new spiritual body to be with the Lord together. This is all one event, and does not refer to being born again through baptism.

No because it is the second resurrection. First the spiritual resurrection as part of Christ's physical resurrection, when men's souls are with Christ, then the second resurrection when their bodies are raised.

And yes born again is through baptism, as we die to sin by being buried with Him when immersed in water in His name and then we rise in a new Spiritual mindset with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit placed in us by Him.

Romans 6 is referring to baptism in the Spirit. 'Buried with Him in baptism into death'. This is a spiritual experience. And immediately we are then raised with Christ and walk in newness of life in the same Spirit.

This does not happen when a person is baptised in water, either as an infant or some time after their spiritual birth. It occurs the moment a person truly believes.