Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nothing here about so called limited atonement. But it does speak to potential that can be realized.
Not to mention the fact of these passages dismantling the unbiblical hyper-cal dogmatic thesis.
1 Timothy 2:1–4
“I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people… This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
Romans 10:1
“Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.”
Matthew 9:37–38
“The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.”
Colossians 4:3–4
“Pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word…”
2 Thessalonians 3:1
“Pray… that the word of the Lord may run and be glorified.”
How exactly?
Use the actual Bible as reference, in deference to vivid imagination or wish-casting.
This is Bible class 101 material that every Christian knows.
So what then is your problem?
[Heb 11:39 KJV] 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[Gal 3:14 KJV]
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[Eph 1:13 KJV]
13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
[Col 1:27 KJV]
27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
[Act 2:38 KJV]
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[Rom 8:9-11 KJV]
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Yes, Abraham was promised resurrection to eternal life. But why?
Are you telling us that faith has a necessary component of will and volition?
Gen 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because H6118 thou hast obeyed my voice.
The KJV translates Strong's H6118 in the following manner: because (6x), reward (3x), end (2x), because (with H834) (1x), by (1x), for (1x), if (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
masculine noun
- consequence
- consequence
- consequence, gain, reward
- end
- עֵ֫קֶב noun [masculine] consequence, usually as adverb accusative as a consequence of, because (that) also reward, end (see below עָקַב; and cf,
heel figurative consequence, result); —
All of this merely reveals that you don't know the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit and the promise of the Father and the gift of the promised Spirit.
No one belongs to Christ who doesn't have the Spirit...Romans 8:9. Did Abraham belong to Christ?
The promise of the Father concerning the Spirit is found in Joel 2. Jesus speaks of it in Acts 1 and what the disciples were to wait upon. It is also what John the Baptist foretold of of Jesus in Matthew 3:11 in which Jesus will baptize with the Spirit. It is also what occurs in Acts 2 and throughout the book of Acts. In every case, it is an outward and experiential experience.
They mean the following.
TULIP is an anacronym for the five main tenets of hyper-Calvinism, described as follows:
T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation.
U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell.
L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls.
I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved.
P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy, because God perseveres in keeping them saved.
The viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) and described as follows:
M – moral requirement, meaning that God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is righteousness, which presumes sinners are morally accountable.
F – free faith, meaning that GRFS or condition for attaining righteousness is IF they believe in GW, which implies sinners are enabled by God to repent, seek salvation and believe the Gospel of Christ’s atonement–but they may resist divine grace.
W – will, meaning that the essence of moral faith is the desire to cooperate with God, and choosing to cooperate with God opens the door of a sinner’s heart to the entrance of Christ’s loving Holy Spirit.
So in a nutshell, Hyper calvinism is like-: Certain people have been chosen to be saved. No matter what they do. They are born chosen. fair enough.
If that was me, in pity or guilt I would ask my Benevolent Miracle Making Father to Help me save the rest of the humans myself then.
How could God use the Gospel for salvation prior to it's execution?
And if Abraham did not belong to Christ, just which God exactly did he belong to? All souls are mine says the Lord. Eze.18:4
God judges on what has been given.
Luke 12:48
But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
You should go read a book called "Eternity in Their Hearts" to see how God works among people who never heard the Gospel message.
Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.
All scripture tells me, that I know of, is, " For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Romans 4:3. If he was born again I have not read that in scripture. Would you kindly tell me where in scripture it says the Abraham was born again? Now, I believe Abraham was in Paradise held captive when Jesus, after sprinkling blood on the mercy seat, came and " preached to the spirits in prison " 2 Peter 3:19; that when Jesus "ascended up on high, He led captivity captive and gave gifts to men." Eph. 4:8 of which Abraham was a part, and that paradise, and those who were held there, are now in the third heaven. I also know that Abraham " rejoiced to see My (Jesus' ) day: and he saw it, and was glad." John 8:56. Does that constitute being born again? How about the other old testament saints with him in Paradise when it, with them in it, ascended on high with Christ?
Who do you suppose spoke with Abraham? Did He believe because his faith came by hearing, and hearing by the words of God? Did he put his trust in Messiah?
If the answer is yes, then he was saved upon belief and partaker of the divine nature. People often assume that just because truth is revealed progressively in the Bible, things aren't so until they are revealed. The truth is, truth is true at all times; it simply becomes known as revealed.
"Did He believe because his faith came by hearing, and hearing by the words of God?"
Your horrendous misinterpretation of this passage has already been thoroughly debunked. Several times.
Why do you continue to push your bogus dogma? Because rinse and repeat error is standard hyper-cal gameplay?
https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5666563
https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5659940
Correction: the Promise capital "P".....
Because you see the promise is a Person.
[Isa 9:6 KJV] 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Among many other promised things, gifts and conveyances.
For example blamelessness, conformation to His image, justification, adoption, obtaining an inheritance and glory those who WILL believe and ENTER into the covenant by an act of their own free will volition.
"Among many other promised things, gifts and conveyances."
You really don't get it. Really, you don't.
Go read some Ada R. Habershon and find out about everything you get wrong and got wrong.
Yes we would, but the tulipists are content with God being unjust/showing favoritism and hating the non-elect.
Sorry hyper-cal is not on my menu.
But yes, the Promise is He Who has the power, authority, right and resources to provide/distribute the promises.
Maybe that will help you out.