Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Blain]

@Blue155 what do you make of this one?
1 Corinthians 7:22
Verse Concepts
For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave.

 

[Blue155]

@Blue155 what do you make of this one?
1 Corinthians 7:22
Verse Concepts
For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave.

I have not looked into that particular verse, so I don’t have a view of it to be able to give at this time.

 

[Blain]

I have not looked into that particular verse, so I don’t have a view of it to be able to give at this time.

Well From what I can see is you know how I mentioned becoming a willing slave to Christ? notice anything in this verse? it speaks of this very thing

 

[Blue155]

Well From what I can see is you know how I mentioned becoming a willing slave to Christ? notice anything in this verse? it speaks of this very thing

Thanks for the discussion, Blain.

 

[bytheblood]

I told you how those gifts will cease according to the language that was used, not simply according to how I think. I understand the chapter and surrounding verses just fine thanks.

Believe as you wish.

" The Word (perfect), put on flesh for thirty three years ( sinlessly perfect ), suffered bodily ( " But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor: that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man. For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the Captain of their salvation PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS." Hebrews 2-10). In each and every way, Spirit, Soul and Body Jesus was, and is, perfect. " Behold , what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see Him as He is." 1 John 3:1-2. When " that which is perfect is come " we will be like Him and no longer need the gifts of speaking in tongues, prophecy, etc., etc. How do I know, you might ask? Well, do you think Jesus needs those gifts? If not, then neither will we, because we'll be like Him. But until then....................

 

[Blain]

Thanks for the discussion, Blain.

You do realize you never once gave me any evidence of your own right? that is not a discussion but I can see you are not able to so I will leave it at that

 

[Blue155]

You do realize you never once gave me any evidence of your own right? that is not a discussion but I can see you are not able to so I will leave it at that

I can give you evidence, but more than likely you already know what verses I would give, and yet you’re not changing, so why bother waste each other’s time? I’m not interested in a conversation where we both aren’t willing to admit we are wrong or be willing to change. Most online (and in real life) aren’t. They already have their minds made up. Already believes the other is wrong, regardless of how many scriptures they give that they say supports their position. So, why should I waste my time trying to give evidence to someone who more than likely already knows the verses? You’ve commented on this thread a bunch, have interacted with others who believe in FW, and so you know what verses they use. It’s not that I won’t give any evidence, it’s just that some aren’t fit to sit on jury to hear it. And truth be known, I’m probably not either, as we both are convinced we are right and are more than likely going to be unconvinced no matter if the other side is able to make a good case.

 

[Blue155]

You do realize you never once gave me any evidence of your own right? that is not a discussion but I can see you are not able to so I will leave it at that

Just because I didn’t give “evidence” doesn’t mean there was no discussion.

 

[Blain]

Just because I didn’t give “evidence” doesn’t mean there was no discussion.

ok fair enough

 

[sawdust]

That's not what the Bible teaches. Again, people fit themselves for destruction. God is merciful and gracious to all. The sun shines on the just and the unjust. God manifests Himself to everyone through creation and conscience. Don't you listen to @Kroogz?

I know what the scripture teaches, it is what you teach that we are dealing with. Knowing God created the universe is not what saves us. There are many people who believe God exists but you teach that is the most they could ever know because anything beyond that point, one needs to be spiritually alive and especially to hear the Gospel.

God knows men are in a helpless and hopeless position but only deigns to help the few. The rest, as far as your god is concerned, can go to hell, literally.

So much for "having compassion on the crowds" Matt.9:36 and "mercy on the ignorant". 1Tim.1:13

 

[sawdust]

The verses I gave prove nothing? did you not notice how they use the word anyone and everyone? it is more accurate than the versesyou gave and not to mention the verse you gave where paul explains what tongues is for well it is valid it is a form of prayer and a very powerful one at that and yes in this way they are soeaking to God so I fail to see how that changes anything.

Tell me this then what scripture would convince you { If at all} that tongues if still for today?

It proves God gave gifts to the 1st century Church. You can say little more about the gifts beyond that from those verses.

A form of prayer? What are you reading? (what I made bold in your post) It is a quotation from Isaiah prophesying against Israel and warning them.

1Cor.14:20-21
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
says the Lord.

Paul tells the Corinthians to stop being immature and understand the purpose of tongues. It is not a prayer, it is an admonition to grown up and be wise in understanding.

As far as your last question, I find a nonsense thing. I study to understand what scriptures say, not what pleases me for it to say.

 

[Blain]

It proves God gave gifts to the 1st century Church. You can say little more about the gifts beyond that from those verses.

A form of prayer? What are you reading? (what I made bold in your post) It is a quotation from Isaiah prophesying against Israel and warning them.

1Cor.14:20-21
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
says the Lord.

Paul tells the Corinthians to stop being immature and understand the purpose of tongues. It is not a prayer, it is an admonition to grown up and be wise in understanding.

As far as your last question, I find a nonsense thing. I study to understand what scriptures say, not what pleases me for it to say.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

This is why it is a form of prayer and yes I figured you would find mt last question nonesense but I showed you how words can like anyone or everyone means something because it does not that I expected you to accept it but I figured I would give it a shot anyways.

 

[sawdust]

" The Word (perfect), put on flesh for thirty three years ( sinlessly perfect ), suffered bodily ( " But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor: that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man. For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the Captain of their salvation PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS." Hebrews 2-10). In each and every way, Spirit, Soul and Body Jesus was, and is, perfect. " Behold , what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see Him as He is." 1 John 3:1-2. When " that which is perfect is come " we will be like Him and no longer need the gifts of speaking in tongues, prophecy, etc., etc. How do I know, you might ask? Well, do you think Jesus needs those gifts? If not, then neither will we, because we'll be like Him. But until then....................

Then if cessation is at the return of Christ why do two of the gifts fade away gradually (katargēthēsontai) while the other stops abruptly (pausontai)?

Also if the perfect is Christ, why is it in the neuter gender and not the masculine?

Should we not also question, how can we reach the full stature of Christ if during the whole church age our prophesy and knowledge is only partial?

1Cor.13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

Apart from anything else, having both prophesy and knowledge only in part forces us to disobey Rev.22:18 by adding both the prophetic utterance and more knowledge after John wrote. And if you want to argue that those two gifts only provide what can already be known in the scripture then what do they accomplish?

 

[sawdust]

1 Corinthians 14:2 For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

This is why it is a form of prayer and yes I figured you would find mt last question nonesense but I showed you how words can like anyone or everyone means something because it does not that I expected you to accept it but I figured I would give it a shot anyways.

I notice you continue to give no argument against what Paul taught about tongues but rather simply divert to something else of which I have never argued against.

As for your last sentence? Could you try rephrasing as I have no idea what you are trying to show me.

 

[Blain]

I notice you continue to give no argument against what Paul taught about tongues but rather simply divert to something else of which I have never argued against.

As for your last sentence? Could you try rephrasing as I have no idea what you are trying to show me.

I don't argue against what Paul teaches about tongues because there is no need to it is a sign for unbelievers it is also for the edification of the church and it is also a form of personal prayer he teaches all of this . And my last sentence what I was saying was that I expected you to think my last question was nonsense even though the wording used in the scriptures I gave earlier means exactly what it says anyone and everybody it shows that because these words were in the verses it shows that the gift is for anyone and everybody meaning it is still for today.

But you who have hardened your heart towards the gift will never understand this and because you quench the spirit neither will you see it

 

[sawdust]

I don't argue against what Paul teaches about tongues because there is no need to it is a sign for unbelievers it is also for the edification of the church and it is also a form of personal prayer he teaches all of this . And my last sentence what I was saying was that I expected you to think my last question was nonsense even though the wording used in the scriptures I gave earlier means exactly what it says anyone and everybody it shows that because these words were in the verses it shows that the gift is for anyone and everybody meaning it is still for today.

But you who have hardened your heart towards the gift will never understand this and because you quench the spirit neither will you see it

I see, I disagree with you based on sound teaching of the scriptures by a qualified pastor therefore I have hardened my heart and quenched the Spirit. Yeah, right.

And it's not for everybody so you are wrong there too.

1 Corinthians 12:30
Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

It's a rhetorical question, the answer is no, ergo not for everybody.

 

[rogerg]

" The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE." 2 Peter3:9 " For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye" Ezekiel 10:32

Read the salutation of the book - chapter 1 verses 1 -4. He is addressing the elect brethren not everyone, so the us-ward in 3:9, was
intended for them and not to apply to everyone. Peter was saying in 3:9, that God would not allow any of His elect to perish.
Here:

[2Pe 1:1-2, 4 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, ...
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I think you meant Eze 18:32 not 10:32. Anyway, that verse was under the Old Covenant - it was a performance-based covenant - those under it had to satisfy its requirements and stipulations by/with their choices and actions alone, hence the "turn yourselves".
Not so with the New Covenant. Under it, God Himself assumed complete responsibility for satisfying all of its demands and stipulations. Therefore, those He places under the NC - those He chose from before the foundation of the world - do not/cannot satisfy any part of it except to be its beneficiaries and recipients.

[Eze 18:32 KJV] 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.

 

[Blain]

I see, I disagree with you based on sound teaching of the scriptures by a qualified pastor therefore I have hardened my heart and quenched the Spirit. Yeah, right.

And it's not for everybody so you are wrong there too.

1 Corinthians 12:30
Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

It's a rhetorical question, the answer is no, ergo not for everybody.

So because a pastor told you so that is what you believe? and yeah maybe I mispoke on it being for everyone but God distributes the gifts according to his will so if one asks for it with earnest I have no doubt he would grant it

 

[Cameron143]

I know what the scripture teaches, it is what you teach that we are dealing with. Knowing God created the universe is not what saves us. There are many people who believe God exists but you teach that is the most they could ever know because anything beyond that point, one needs to be spiritually alive and especially to hear the Gospel.

God knows men are in a helpless and hopeless position but only deigns to help the few. The rest, as far as your god is concerned, can go to hell, literally.

So much for "having compassion on the crowds" Matt.9:36 and "mercy on the ignorant". 1Tim.1:13

I don't believe God only saves few.

Honestly, you don't know what I believe. So far, what you say I teach is not so.

 

[cv5]

Paul preached in Acts and Luke wrote it down that God created man with the ability to seek God.

In Romans Paul wrote that unfortunately no man seeks God.

This doesn't mean man still cannot seek God, it just means no man has ever tried to seek God and God expresses this fact.

But just because we don't seek God doesn't remove from the fact that we can and have the ability to seek God.

That's actually the best definition of Free Will throughout the entire Bible.

In Romans Paul wrote that unfortunately no man seeks God.

The intended meaning and interpretation of Psalm 14 and 53 is far beyond the pay grade of the Calvinists.
Context, state of mind, situation etc. All of the necessary background info is jettisoned/ignored.
What is remains for them are "buzzwords" and "catchphrases" in English.

But, the diligent student will seek the truths of these passages and find them.