Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Blain]

They will say that’s not about salvation

How is it about salvation?

 

[Cameron143]

Canned Calvinist Biblically illiterate double talk typically comes from people who could care less about what is actually IN the Bible.

Lev 1:3 - If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

[Lev 22:18, 21, 23 KJV] 18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever [he be] of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering; ... 21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish [his] vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein. ... 23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer [for] a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.

[Lev 23:38 KJV] 38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

[Num 15:3 KJV] 3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:

[Num 29:39 KJV] 39 These [things] ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.

[Deu 12:6, 17 KJV] 6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: ... 17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:

[Deu 16:10 KJV] 10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give [unto the LORD thy God], according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
[Deu 23:23 KJV] 23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; [even] a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

[2Ch 31:14 KJV] 14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, [was] over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.

[Ezr 1:4 KJV] 4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that [is] in Jerusalem.

[Ezr 3:5 KJV] 5 And afterward [offered] the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.

[Ezr 7:13, 16 KJV] 13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and [of] his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee. ... 16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which [is] in Jerusalem:

[Ezr 8:28 KJV] 28 And I said unto them, Ye [are] holy unto the LORD; the vessels [are] holy also; and the silver and the gold [are] a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.

[Psa 119:108 KJV] 108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

Making choices isn't free will. One is either under the influence of the Spirit or the flesh.

 

[Blain]

Are we supposed to or not??

Yes we are and upon doing so we surrender our will to abide in the fathers thus we are no longer our own and thus henceforth no free will. We become willing slaves to Christ

 

[Blue155]

How is it about salvation?

Why would they have free will to offer things, yet not have the freedom will to choose salvation? Is the will free not for salvation, but for other things? Which is more important?

 

[Blue155]

Yes we are and upon doing so we surrender our will to abide in the fathers thus we are no longer our own and thus henceforth no free will. We become willing slaves to Christ

None of that proves we don’t have free will.

 

[Blain]

None of that proves we don’t have free will.

How does it not prove it?

 

[Blue155]

How does it not prove it?

How does it? Where does it prove we don’t have it?

 

[Blain]

How does it? Where does it prove we don’t have it?

Do you believe we can our will and the fathers in us at the same time?

 

[Blue155]

Do you believe we can our will and the fathers in us at the same time?

What?

 

[Blain]

What?

What I mean is when you completely surrender to the father you surrender your entire being including your will you know the phrase let your will be done right? well if you surrender yourself to him then it is his will that is in you not yours for you are not your own

Both cannot be true you either surrender everything to him or not you either abide in his will or your own

 

[Blue155]

What I mean is when you completely surrender to the father you surrender your entire being including your will you know the phrase let your will be done right? well if you surrender yourself to him then it is his will that is in you not yours for you are not your own

Both cannot be true you either surrender everything to him or not you either abide in his will or your own

None of that proves we don’t have free will.

 

[Blain]

None of that proves we don’t have free will.

Logically speaking it does merely saying otherwise proves nothing, if you are correct then show me how what evidence is there to suggest otherwise?

 

[Blue155]

Logically speaking it does

No, it does not. How does what you say prove that we don’t have free will. What is your evidence that proves we don’t? You gave an example, I asked how..what you said didn’t convince me.

 

[Blain]

No, it does not. How does what you say prove that we don’t have free will. What is your evidence that proves we don’t? You gave an example, I asked how..what you said didn’t convince me.

Well firstly you nnever gave me any evidence to prove we do, secondly 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; note that this passage says we are not our own so if we are not our own then how can we of our own violition have free will?

 

[Blue155]

Well firstly you nnever gave me any evidence to prove we do, secondly 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; note that this passage says we are not our own so if we are not our own then how can we of our own violition have free will?

And you never gave any evidence that we don’t. How does that verse and your question prove we don’t? I’m not seeing how.

 

[Blain]

And you never gave any evidence that we don’t. How does that verse and your question prove we don’t? I’m not seeing how.

Maybe because you don't wish to see, I have given you sound logic and scripture you have offered nothing in return no scriptures and no sound logic. it is only common courtesy that you do the same.
So what evidence do you want exactly? I mean do you even understand what it means to fully surrender to Christ? do you understand what a will is? do you understand what not your own means?

 

[Blue155]

Maybe because you don't wish to see, I have given you sound logic and scripture you have offered nothing in return no scriptures and no sound logic. it is only common courtesy that you do the same.
So what evidence do you want exactly? I mean do you even understand what it means to fully surrender to Christ? do you understand what a will is? do you understand what not your own means?

Just because you offer scripture doesn’t mean it proves what you believe. And just because you say you have given sound logic doesn’t mean it’s sound logic. I see what you believe, so it’s not that I don’t see it or can’t see it, it is simply that I’m not biblically convinced what you believe about this to be correct.

 

[Blain]

Just because you offer scripture doesn’t mean it proves what you believe. And just because you say you have given sound logic doesn’t mean it’s sound logic. I see what you believe, so it’s not that I don’t see it or can’t see it, it is simply that I’m not biblically convinced what you believe about this to be correct.

Yes I figured you would say that so then what exactly would it take to convince you then? If not scripture or logic then what?

 

[bytheblood]

They are those who were chosen by God from before the foundation of the world unto salvation. He chose them because He decided to save those specific individuals, but not everyone, and not because He knew in advance they would later do something to deserve being saved - that would make salvation by their works and not by grace. The elect, by their nature, until born-again, are every bit as sinful as the non-elect are and no more deserving of salvation than they are. They obtain and demonstrate the attributes of true Christians from becoming saved/born-again, not to become so.
God chose those of the elect because it was His divine prerogative and good pleasure to arbitrarily choose whomsoever He would, and He demonstrated that through the unilateral actions of His choices. Being God, He owes no explanation or apology to anyone because He did so. He makes that point clear in the verses below.

[Rom 9:13-24 KJV]
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

" The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE." 2 Peter3:9 " For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye" Ezekiel 10:32

 

[Blue155]

" The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE." 2 Peter3:9 " For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye" Ezekiel 10:32

Beautiful verses