Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Blain]

No one disputes this, Blain. All who have posted in this thread believe God always reveals Himself first.

Why there is continuous animosity and dispute concerning this truth when all believe God draws the unbeliever to Himself is beyond me.

we all agree that the Father sent the Lord Jesus Christ ...
we all agree that the Father draws people to the Lord Jesus Christ ...

but then it's like "oh my goodness! I can't be in agreement with them" ... no we must continue to be at odds with each other, even though we agree with each other.

and, as has been stated many times in this thread ... the continuous arguments serve only to interrupt discussion beyond the basics of Jesus Christ and Him crucified (the gospel).

Now who would be the one who wants to squelch discussion of deeper truth, Blain?

Who would be the one who does not want revealed the manifold wisdom of God unto principalities and powers in the heavenlies according to the eternal purpose which He purposed in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Ephesians 3:10 -11

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

.

The issue being that they do dispute it they claim it is out of context not for today and it is clear that the verse says what it says so when I ask how it is out of context they simply are unable to do so and then I have seen them bad mouth magenta call me and her calvies and that is simply not true

I have tried to be reasonable with them but they keep on slandering and it is clear they have no intentions of having an honest discussion

 

[HeIsHere]

The way I see it it is the word of God and it says what it means and means what it says trying to say it was only for a certain group when there is no grounds to even suggest that is biblically undsound.

And the thing is so far no one has been able to disprove it but that is fine because I know that Jesus himself said it and that the only way around it for you guys is to try to make seem as if it was not for today but it is THE WORD OF GOD not some text you can just dismiss you either take it as it is or not that is up to you

Scripture needs to be understood so that it is coherent and unified, I dismissed nothing,... so who is leveraging accusations now. smh!

You did not nothing to actually refute what is generally agreed to be the correct understanding when the Calvinist lens is not in operation.

Any way moving on.

 

[Blain]

Scripture needs to be understood so that it is coherent and unified, I dismissed nothing,... so who is leveraging accusations now. smh!

You did not nothing to actually refute what is generally agreed to be the correct understanding when the Calvinist lens is not in operation.

Any way moving on.

Scripture is to be understood correctly but it also is to be taken as is no added interpretations no fancy ways of understanding it it is truth and you cannot add to or take away from truth

I learned this from Jesus himself one the few times I have met him face to face and he gave me a very stern look when I tried to add my interpretation of his teachings he doesn't appreciate it trust me

So as far as subject at hand goes you can either listen to him or not that is on you but also this verse I keep giving is from his mouth himself but it is not something you can say is out of context because it isn't you cannot say it was only for a certain group because it isn't you cannot say it is not for today because it is and why do I say that? Because it is the word of God

 

[sawdust]

He draws only the Sheep to Christ and the result is conversion, they follow Christ.

That's because only the sheep want to follow. The goats want to climb their own mountain.

 

[cv5]

Well after a few months of trying for unity I gave up and only rarely replied to her posts.

I was trying to facilitate her prison break. Provided hacksaws, lockpicks shovels the works.

But nope. She was NOT WILLING to ACT upon the OFFER, reach out her hand to RECEIVE/SEIZE upon them wherewith her escape could be realized.

 

[sawdust]

Oh ok thank you for clarifying that but as for what he said was out of context it was this verse right here John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Can't say that I saw that.

 

[Blain]

Can't say that I saw that.

No worries I myself sometimes miss certain posts

 

[Genez]

And yet you provide no evidence that what Jesus said was not for today so on what basis do you think that aside from the fact it proves your standing to be wrong?

I just gave you the evidence that you must analyze to see it for yourself.

Tongues was a sign for *unbelievers.*
A sign for those that God's Word said would NOT believe.

“With other tongues​

and through the lips of foreigners​

I will speak to this people,​

but even then they will not listen to me,​

says the Lord.”​

That was a prophesy given to Israel.
It concerned the time of the Assyrian invasion.

What I said will make no sense to you because you have not yet secured a pastor who can teach you
all the needed details contained in the Word of God.
That is where, and why, we get stuck.

It would probably take about two hours of teaching before you would have enough to think with to put it together.
I showed you a pastor who had the capacity to teach on that level.
Please consider ordering the basics series.
No money will be asked for...

We need expository teaching.
Not social commentary that will interject some Scripture while reporting the news.

 

[studier]

No not really. On the contrary, a lifetime of dedicated effort and a PhD is not nearly sufficient.
The Scriptures have fractal features, holographic type phenomenon and have definitely code-like structures embedded within.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/12917324470/

Are you willing to hear this? I doubt it. Most will not take the time or effort because most really do not care much at all.
Bible verse Barbies and bible verse Kens never matriculate.

Heb 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

@studier might be interested in this Samson series. Staggering stuff. Divine watermarks galore.

I listened to the Chronister teaching today. It would be interesting to find a child who could follow and understand what he taught! A lot to digest.

One thing he said that I enjoyed because it's been a topic in many places on these threads is how he noted that "life" has biblical meaning and is "intrinsic" to [genuine] faith. Such things the Text explains and defines as being "intrinsic" to faith - actually a part of faith - is hard to get people to see. Good stuff!

 

[cv5]

I listened to the Chronister teaching today. It would be interesting to find a child who could follow and understand what he taught! A lot to digest.

One thing he said that I enjoyed because it's been a topic in many places on these threads is how he noted that "life" has biblical meaning and is "intrinsic" to [genuine] faith. Such things the Text explains and defines as being "intrinsic" to faith - actually a part of faith - is hard to get people to see. Good stuff!

Thrilled to hear that thanks. Chronister is an analytical genius of the first order.

I have devoured the entire Samson series. I never only hear his lectures once only. Far more often minimum THREE or more times over. At this point who knows a couple of thousand hours in aggregate hearing his lectures.

You need to hear 153 fish. Just use the search tool on sermon audio. Superlatives to describe fail me.

But yea.....true life = free will. No doubt.

Please don't be a stranger and God bless you.

 

[Blain]

I just gave you the evidence that you must analyze to see it for yourself.

Tongues was a sign for *unbelievers.*
A sign for those that God's Word said would NOT believe.

“With other tongues​

and through the lips of foreigners​

I will speak to this people,​

but even then they will not listen to me,​

says the Lord.”​

That was a prophesy given to Israel.
It concerned the time of the Assyrian invasion.

What I said will make no sense to you because you have not yet secured a pastor who can teach you
all the needed details contained in the Word of God.
That is where, and why, we get stuck.

It would probably take about two hours of teaching before you would have enough to think with to put it together.
I showed you a pastor who had the capacity to teach on that level.
Please consider ordering the basics series.
No money will be asked for...

We need expository teaching.
Not social commentary that will interject some Scripture while reporting the news.

Firstly the issue with tongues is that it is still for today I have encountered real tongues several times and there is true power in it in fact it was the laying of hands and tongues that healed me of my constant sickness.

Secondly even if you are right about tongues that is an entirely seperate topic and has nothing whatsoever to do with what Jesus stated so you still have no basis for believing it isn't for us today thirdly why would I seek a man to learn the truth when I c an go to the source itself?

I study under Jesus himself he is the way the truth and the light in him there is no error unlike man who is flawed

 

[GWH]

so how do you become a moral free willer then

I have reformed tulip, and it does sound wonderful, by spelling it mfw.

One becomes a mfwer by choosing to believe GW teaching that God loves everyone (John 3:16, 1John 4:7-12,
Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4) and that God is just/does not show
favoritism (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3).

One refutes tulipism via systematic study of its proof-texts, including Romans 1-11, Mark 7:21-23, Matthew 20:28,
Phil. 2:13, John 6:44a, 6:65 & 10:27-29, 1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, 2Cor 1:20-24, Eph. 1:3-14, 1 John 2:19, Psalm 135:6,
Pro. 21:1, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1Cor. 1:26-28, 1Cor. 2:1-2&10, Jer. 17:9a, Deut. 29:4, etc.

 

[GWH]

I was trying to facilitate her prison break. Provided hacksaws, lockpicks shovels the works.

But nope. She was NOT WILLING to ACT upon the OFFER, reach out her hand to RECEIVE/SEIZE upon them wherewith her escape could be realized.

And I provided systematic study of her favorite Bible passages, which she also ignored.

 

[Jordon]

I have reformed tulip, and it does sound wonderful, by spelling it mfw.

One becomes a mfwer by choosing to believe GW teaching that God loves everyone (John 3:16, 1John 4:7-12,
Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4) and that God is just/does not show
favoritism (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3).

One refutes tulipism via systematic study of its proof-texts, including Romans 1-11, Mark 7:21-23, Matthew 20:28,
Phil. 2:13, John 6:44a, 6:65 & 10:27-29, 1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, 2Cor 1:20-24, Eph. 1:3-14, 1 John 2:19, Psalm 135:6,
Pro. 21:1, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1Cor. 1:26-28, 1Cor. 2:1-2&10, Jer. 17:9a, Deut. 29:4, etc.

lol sounds like you've got it all worked out, you'll go down in history as the great reformer

But what will happen is you'll also create billions of moral free will bashers .

 

[Genez]

Firstly the issue with tongues is that it is still for today I have encountered real tongues several times and there is true power in it in fact it was the laying of hands and tongues that healed me of my constant sickness.

Secondly even if you are right about tongues that is an entirely seperate topic and has nothing whatsoever to do with what Jesus stated so you still have no basis for believing it isn't for us today thirdly why would I seek a man to learn the truth when I c an go to the source itself?

I study under Jesus himself he is the way the truth and the light in him there is no error unlike man who is flawed

Why have tongues?

There are no unbelievers today who will refuse to believe, what the sign was needed for.
It was to be a sign to Jews who were refusing to believe in Jesus Christ.


Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. 1 Cor 14:22a

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not."​

The Jews required a sign.
And, the Jews were about to be judged by God in 70AD.

God sent the unbelievers a sign.
One that God said they would refuse to heed.
Just like Pharaoh refused the signs given to him.

"For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom." 1 Corinthians 1:22​

Others hearing tongues on the native language may have been fascinated.
But today we have the NT and the Gospels to present.

Back then, there was no established NT.
And, for many the name of Jesus was still a foreign concept.

So when they entered an area where people spoke a different language?
And, the saw you - a foreigner - speaking fluently their native tongue?
It would break the ice, as it did in Acts 2.

But, we are no longer living in that same historical setting.
Paul prophesied about tongues coming to an end in 1 Corinthians 13:8

grace and peace .........

 

[brightfame52]

That's because only the sheep want to follow. The goats want to climb their own mountain.

Only the Sheep can follow and are called to follow

 

[Blain]

Why have tongues?

There are no unbelievers today who will refuse to believe, what the sign was needed for.
It was to be a sign to Jews who were refusing to believe in Jesus Christ.


Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. 1 Cor 14:22a

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not."​

The Jews required a sign.
And, the Jews were about to be judged by God in 70AD.

God sent the unbelievers a sign.
One that God said they would refuse to heed.
Just like Pharaoh refused the signs given to him.

"For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom." 1 Corinthians 1:22​

Others hearing tongues on the native language may have been fascinated.
But today we have the NT and the Gospels to present.

Back then, there was no established NT.
And, for many the name of Jesus was still a foreign concept.

So when they entered an area where people spoke a different language?
And, the saw you - a foreigner - speaking fluently their native tongue?
It would break the ice, as it did in Acts 2.

But, we are no longer living in that same historical setting.
Paul prophesied about tongues coming to an end in 1 Corinthians 13:8

grace and peace .........

Why have tongues? exactly for that reason a sign for unbelievers doubting thomases I was in the presence of unbelievers at the time

 

[Genez]

Why have tongues? exactly for that reason a sign for unbelievers doubting thomases I was in the presence of unbelievers at the time

Stick with why the Bible says why, and we can stop arguing with each other.

 

[Jordon]

Why have tongues? exactly for that reason a sign for unbelievers doubting thomases I was in the presence of unbelievers at the time

I would take no notice to what he's saying

1 Corinthians 13:8

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Read the passage it's saying prophecies tongues and knowledge will come and go.

Because we know his knowledge will never end.

The scripture is saying love will always remain when prophecies come and go.

Besides the scripture declares the gifts of prophecies is given to his saved children.

And now he's accusing you of you of arguing, he's also starting to talk down to you as well now

 

[BillyBob]

I have reformed tulip, and it does sound wonderful, by spelling it mfw.

One becomes a mfwer by choosing to believe GW teaching that God loves everyone (John 3:16, 1John 4:7-12,
Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4) and that God is just/does not show
favoritism (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3).

One refutes tulipism via systematic study of its proof-texts, including Romans 1-11, Mark 7:21-23, Matthew 20:28,
Phil. 2:13, John 6:44a, 6:65 & 10:27-29, 1Cor 1:8, 10:12 & 15:58, 2Cor 1:20-24, Eph. 1:3-14, 1 John 2:19, Psalm 135:6,
Pro. 21:1, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1Cor. 1:26-28, 1Cor. 2:1-2&10, Jer. 17:9a, Deut. 29:4, etc.

Let me know when you have finished reading and understanding [Part 1 of 3] and I will post Part 2.

By Grace Alone​

Part 1​

1. Eph. 2:8,9 - "For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."
2. Rom. 4:6,7 - God imputes "Righteousness without works."(see #9, #4, #45, #7, #12, #53).
3. Rom. 10:3 – It is a fatal error for anyone to try and, "Establish their own righteousness."
4. Rom. 5:17 – A Heaven-deserving Righteousness is a "GIFT", not something you earn.
5. Rom. 5:18 - Justification by God is a "FREE GIFT”, not something you work toward.
6. Phil. 3:9 - Paul, as ‘good’ as he was, still would not trust his "own righteousness" to save him.
7. Rom. 3:22 - God's Righteousness is credited to "ALL THEM THAT BLIEVE", not all them that work.
8. Rom. 8:3,4 - The flesh is too "Weak" to save itself. We need a Savior. We need Christ. (see #86).
9. Rom. 4:3 - Abraham's faith, not works, "Was counted unto him for Righteousness." It is what God gives a man that is counted for Righteousness, not anything which is in the man by nature.
10. Rom. 4:4,5 - Works are "Not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Faith is counted as Righteousness.
11. Gal. 3:10 - To earn Heaven you'd have to "Continue," perfectly, in the whole law. (see #81, #86).
12. Titus 3:5 - "NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." Salvation is not by what we have done, but only by what God has done.
13. John 5:24 - In Christ we have "PASSED from death unto life." We don't have to ‘wait’ to find out. We do not have to perform works of obedience to do this. The Savior has done it all by grace.
14. Rom. 9:31,32 – Israel, "Sought it (Righteousness) not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law." (#33, #54). Paul did not praise God for their salvation, he prayed FOR their salvation.
15. Acts 4:12 - No other name but Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Acts 4:10) can save us — not the name of works, nor our own name. “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
16. John 1:12,13 - Only God's power, through His Son, makes us a child of God. We are not born into God's family by "Blood" (heritage, family ‘pedigree’), "Nor of the will of the flesh" (good works), "Nor of the will of man" (minister, or man-made religion), "But of God" (see #12, #53, #21, #17, #22, #46, #15).
17. Isa. 45:21,22 - No one else can save a soul from Hell but God; God says: “…there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside Me. Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”
18. Acts 13:39 - "And by Him [Christ] all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED by the law of Moses." (see #33, #54, #53, #5, #42, #64, #82, #87, #80).
19. Rom. 8:7 - We can't follow God's law even if we wanted to. So how can we save ourselves? (see #86, #8).
20. Matthew 7:21-23 - Christ describes a future scene in which those who are trusting in their "Many wonderful works”, will, sadly, be told by Christ: "I never knew you: depart from Me, Ye that work iniquity.” Their good works will not save them. This includes the ‘good work’ of believing, or ‘accepting Christ’. True believers all trust Christ, and His Righteousness ALONE. (see #46, #12).
21. John 10:1 - We must enter through Christ, "THE DOOR", not by "…some other way…" (see #46). All who are saved by grace alone enter through Christ. All who do not believe in grace alone, failingly attempt to enter some other way. Only those who are not saved trust in their works.
22. John 8:24 - A person can work all they want, but it will not save them. Jesus said the bottom line is that, "If ye believe not that I am He [the only true God], ye shall die in your sins." (see #53 and #69).
23. Rom. 4:2 - If Abraham could have saved himself, he'd have something to brag about.(see #25, #1).
24. Acts 10:1-43 - Cornelius' good works would put anyone today to shame, yet he still had to get saved by grace through the gift of faith which trusts solely in Christ as Savior (see #6, #12, #1, #88).
25. Rom. 3:27,28 – “Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law” (see #1 and #23).
26. 1 John 5:11-13 - If your salvation depends on a lifetime of good works, then why does the Bible teach that you could "KNOW" for sure, before you die, that you are going to Heaven? (see Jn. 5:24; 1 Jn. 3:14). The answer is because salvation doesn't depend on you, but on Christ, Who ALREADY paid the price for your sins: “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God” (see #87).
27. Heb. 1:3 - "He had BY HIMSELF purged our sins."He doesn't need help from us! (see #15).
28. Heb. 2:3 - If we have to work at earning it, why does the Bible call it "So great a salvation"? Salvation is God’s work, not by the works of His people.
29. Heb. 2:9,10 - Christ is "The CAPTAIN of their salvation."
30. Heb. 2:14-15 - Christ is the one who will "DELIVER" us from death. We cannot deliver ourselves! (see #53).
31. Heb. 2:17 - Christ makes "RECONCILIATION for the sins" of His people. We cannot reconcile ourselves. Works is man’s way, grace is God’s Way. Works always fail. The grace of God can never fail in saving God’s chosen.
32. Heb. 5:9 - Christ is "The AUTHOR of eternal salvation", not us! It's not in our hands. Eternal salvation is beyond any man’s deeds.
33. Gal. 2:16 - "Knowing that a man IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, ...that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT by the WORKS of the law: FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED."
34. Heb. 9:28 - "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many." God will not accept good works (see Gen. 4:3-5).
35. Heb. 10:10-12 - Christ's body was offered "Once for all", So stop insulting God with your works in an attempt to get saved or stay saved.
36. Heb. 10:14 "For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
37. Heb. 10:17,18 - "There is no more offering for sin." So stop offering your ‘good works’, which are in reality nothing but dead works.
38. 2 Cor. 1:9,10 - "We should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who hath delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He will yet deliver us.”
39. 2 Cor. 1:10 – Christ "Delivered us from so great a death." It could not have happened any other way; His chosen people could not deliver themselves.
40. Eph. 1:12,13 - You are saved by grace through faith in Christ “In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the Word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise.”