Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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I never said that.

I said this. AND IT IS TRUTH!


If you do not want to be accused of being a witch?
Then... Don't flaunt paganism as your calling card in what is supposed to be a Christian forum.

What I said is true.

You can not be honest.
That has been established by now.
You really are the biscuit, why do find it so easy to call Christians theses names, w ! Why is it you don't have any conviction to not accuse the way you do ?

And then you say I'm not liked here, do you wonder why ?

do you think I should be friendly to you now and offer you support or something ? Do you think your owed something or something,


you've just about kicked my friendship all over the place that I've offered you hundreds times.

Are first encounter was me asking you dozens of times to tell me why you where being the way you are in a way that I showed concern for your wellbeing, before you finally opened up.

Then I told you I would like you to enjoy your time here, I even tried to engage with you privately, until you started to ridicule privately.


And since then all I've witnessed is you ridiculing people who have manners in taking there time to explain all the things you say there making out there not.

You very childish behaving this way, and you need stop bullying people, it's not good for anyone.
 
You desperate. There's no natural revelation of Christ or the Father, it's spiritual and supernatural Matt 11:27

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal
Matthew11-27.png

All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. Matthew 11 v 27
 
Concerning Zoroastrianism, here is some stuff from my studies and from what I have gathered within the last couple of years when investigating world religions.

Although Zoroaster’s life predates Jesus Christ, all information pertaining to him comes from the book of Avesta. Interestingly, Avesta was not composed until the 4th century (AD/CE). This is almost 400 years after the life of Jesus Christ.

Significantly, the earliest manuscripts of the Avesta have been dated to the 13th century (AD/CE). In comparison, the manuscripts of the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have been dated between 45-60 (AD/CE).5

If the New Testament manuscripts are dated much before Avesta, then it is clear that Christianity could NOT have borrowed ideas from Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism may have borrowed ideas from Christianity, but it is certainly not the other way around.

Despite the oral traditions of Zoroastrianism predating Christ, the information in Avesta could be unreliable because of the large gap in time (1000 years plus or minus). Moreover, historians claim that the book of Avesta has been updated over time.6 If Avesta was updated over time, then it is more plausible that Zoroastrianism borrowed concepts from Christianity.

The Bible could not have borrowed the concept of Satan from Zoroastrianism. Satan appears in the book of Job, a very early book. Moreover, Satan is much unlike the evil god Angra Mainyu (Ahriman), who is a dualistic equal to Ahura Mazda. Last but not the least, the doctrine of salvation clinches the deal. Any religion that teaches salvation by works cannot be true.


The Avesta's various texts [the primary collection of religious texts of Zoroastrianism] were handed down orally and independently of one another. When the canon of the Avesta was being fixed (4th to 6th century AD), Avestan was a dead language known only to priests. Others believe it was put in writing between 346-360 A.D. So, we have anywhere from the 3rd century to 6th century AD that their primary collections was in its written form. Keep in mind that this was after the fact of being orally passed down. The oldest scriptures (the Avesta) are in an Old Iranian language, Avestan. Also, based on my studies, their oldest surviving manuscript is dated from the 13th century. All of this is enough time to “cook the books” so to speak and write similarities to borrow aspects from Judaism and Christianity. And, if the Avesta was updated over time, then it is very likely that Zoroastrianism borrowed concepts from Judaism and Christianity. Also, only about one-quarter of the Avestan sentences or verses referred to by the 9th/10th century commentators can be found in the surviving texts. This suggests that three-quarters of Avestan material, including an indeterminable number of juridical, historical and legendary texts, have been lost since then. In other words, three-quarters of its original text are lost. All of this is a FAR CRY from God’s word. The Bible demolishes it in every single way.

Little is known about Zoroaster; most of his life is known only from these scant texts.[2] By any modern standard of historiography, no evidence can place him into a fixed period and the historicization surrounding him may be a part of a trend from before the 10th century AD that historicizes legends and myths.[13]

The prophet Isaiah spoke of the virgin birth of Christ and recorded it around 701 BC, which still precedes Zoroastrianism by 100 years.

Their sacred books in that religion is said to be compiled in the 4th century AD, and various texts were handed down orally, and independently of one another. Some believe that it was not until around the 5th or 6th century CE [AD] that they were committed to written form. And if the oldest surviving manuscript is dated from the 13th century AD, then this would be many centuries after their composition. All of this (writing centuries after Jesus’s death and the OT and NT) is enough time to “cook the books” so to speak and write similarities to Christianity. The information in it is more than likely unreliable due to such a large gap in time. And if the Avesta was updated over time, then it is more plausible that Zoroastrianism borrowed concepts from Christianity. In comparison, the manuscripts of the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles is much much closer in time. Their writings were very late and doesn’t have the historicity that the Bible does.

The Old Testament scriptures were wrote way way way before the Avesta were said to have been written, and the New Testament was written in the 1st century, the manuscripts of the New Testament is much closer in years than Zoroastrianisms. So there’s no way Judaism or Christianity could have borrowed ideas from Zoroastrianism. It had to be the other way around. Zoroastrianism borrowed ideas from Judaism and Christianity.

And God would not condone parts of a false religion to be taught and written down to be the law of Moses. Same with Christianity, and so the people who say the law of Moses and Christianity were influenced by Zoroastrianism are jokers. Had they been influenced or borrowed any part of Zoroastrianism, then that would mean God was perfectly okay with the false teachings by Zoroastrianism to be taught, to be influencing, and to be written down as the law of Moses and as Christianity. It would be like Him saying Zoroastrianism is part of the law of Moses and also part of Christianity. I don’t buy that for a second. The Word of God is inspired by God. Any human influence towards error would be corrected by that inspiration.

It feels like some scholar made these claims once, everyone believed him, and now it’s just a big echo chamber where all accept these ideas as fact without knowing where they came from and if they were indeed sound in the first place.

The following is from Dr. John Weldon, “Is Jesus Unique When Compared To Other Religious Leaders?”

“Anyone who wishes can also read the world’s greatest religious and philosophical literature—the Analects of Confucius, the Qur’an of Muhammad, the Vedas of the Hindus, the teachings of the Buddha, or of Taoism, Shinto, Zoroaster or any of the great philosophers like Plato, Socrates, Wittgenstein, Aristotle, Descarte, Hume, Bacon—or any of the greatest scientific minds such as Einstein. One who does this will realize that they all pale in comparison to the words of Jesus. One could argue that all the literature of the world combined hardly matches the quality, character, uniqueness and truth of the words of Jesus, because, compared to the words of Jesus, the words of anyone else are almost lifeless.”

“Those with open and closed minds alike should frankly study His words if for no other reason than to prove their uniqueness. Reverent study of the words of Christ and comparison to any or all other religious teachings should logically make one a follower of Jesus.

I, John Weldon, majored in philosophy in college for almost two years, have an M.A. degree in Christian Evidences, another Masters in Biblical Studies and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion. Additionally, I have studied some 70 minor religions and cults. For 25 years I have examined or studied competing religions and philosophies. Nothing comes close to the glory and majesty of Jesus. I can say without the slightest possibility of ever being proven wrong that there is no one anywhere like Jesus.”

Zoroaster only claimed to be a prophet, “I was ordained by Thee at the first. All others I look upon with hatred of spirit.”[7] Lao-tze and Guru Nanak sum up the attitude, at one time or another, of all the great religious founders when they confessed their humanity and even their ignorance. For example, Lao-tze the founder of Taoism said, “I alone appear empty. Ignorant am I, O so ignorant! I am dull!… I alone am confused, so confused!”[8] Even in the latter part of his life, Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism still struggled to achieve enlightenment and lamented over his own spiritual darkness, “I have become perplexed in my search. In the darkness I find no way. Devoted to pride, I weep in sorrow…. How shall deliverance be obtained?”[9]

In The World’s Living Religions, Professor of the History of Religions, Robert Hume comments that there are three features of Christian faith that “cannot be paralleled anywhere among the religions of the world.”[10] These include the character of God as a loving heavenly Father, the character of the founder of Christianity as the Son of God, and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Further,

All of the nine founders of religion, with the exception of Jesus Christ, are reported in their respective sacred scriptures as having passed through a preliminary period of uncertainty, or of searching for religious light…. All the founders of the non-Christian religions evinced inconsistencies in their personal character; some of them altered their practical policies under change of circumstances. Jesus Christ alone is reported as having had a consistent God-consciousness, a consistent character himself, and a consistent program for his religion.[11]

Zoroastrianism— their god, Ahura Mazda, is assisted, they believe, in governing the world by the seven “Amesha Spentas”, the “Beneficial/Holy Immortals”. Chief among them is Spenta Mainyu, Ahura Mazda’s Holy Spirit. The seven, in turn, are assisted by a large number of deities called yazatas, “ones worthy of worship.”
 
Concerning Zoroastrianism, here is some stuff from my studies and from what I have gathered within the last couple of years when investigating world religions.

Although Zoroaster’s life predates Jesus Christ, all information pertaining to him comes from the book of Avesta. Interestingly, Avesta was not composed until the 4th century (AD/CE). This is almost 400 years after the life of Jesus Christ.

Significantly, the earliest manuscripts of the Avesta have been dated to the 13th century (AD/CE). In comparison, the manuscripts of the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles have been dated between 45-60 (AD/CE).5

If the New Testament manuscripts are dated much before Avesta, then it is clear that Christianity could NOT have borrowed ideas from Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism may have borrowed ideas from Christianity, but it is certainly not the other way around.

Despite the oral traditions of Zoroastrianism predating Christ, the information in Avesta could be unreliable because of the large gap in time (1000 years plus or minus). Moreover, historians claim that the book of Avesta has been updated over time.6 If Avesta was updated over time, then it is more plausible that Zoroastrianism borrowed concepts from Christianity.

The Bible could not have borrowed the concept of Satan from Zoroastrianism. Satan appears in the book of Job, a very early book. Moreover, Satan is much unlike the evil god Angra Mainyu (Ahriman), who is a dualistic equal to Ahura Mazda. Last but not the least, the doctrine of salvation clinches the deal. Any religion that teaches salvation by works cannot be true.


The Avesta's various texts [the primary collection of religious texts of Zoroastrianism] were handed down orally and independently of one another. When the canon of the Avesta was being fixed (4th to 6th century AD), Avestan was a dead language known only to priests. Others believe it was put in writing between 346-360 A.D. So, we have anywhere from the 3rd century to 6th century AD that their primary collections was in its written form. Keep in mind that this was after the fact of being orally passed down. The oldest scriptures (the Avesta) are in an Old Iranian language, Avestan. Also, based on my studies, their oldest surviving manuscript is dated from the 13th century. All of this is enough time to “cook the books” so to speak and write similarities to borrow aspects from Judaism and Christianity. And, if the Avesta was updated over time, then it is very likely that Zoroastrianism borrowed concepts from Judaism and Christianity. Also, only about one-quarter of the Avestan sentences or verses referred to by the 9th/10th century commentators can be found in the surviving texts. This suggests that three-quarters of Avestan material, including an indeterminable number of juridical, historical and legendary texts, have been lost since then. In other words, three-quarters of its original text are lost. All of this is a FAR CRY from God’s word. The Bible demolishes it in every single way.

Little is known about Zoroaster; most of his life is known only from these scant texts.[2] By any modern standard of historiography, no evidence can place him into a fixed period and the historicization surrounding him may be a part of a trend from before the 10th century AD that historicizes legends and myths.[13]

The prophet Isaiah spoke of the virgin birth of Christ and recorded it around 701 BC, which still precedes Zoroastrianism by 100 years.

Their sacred books in that religion is said to be compiled in the 4th century AD, and various texts were handed down orally, and independently of one another. Some believe that it was not until around the 5th or 6th century CE [AD] that they were committed to written form. And if the oldest surviving manuscript is dated from the 13th century AD, then this would be many centuries after their composition. All of this (writing centuries after Jesus’s death and the OT and NT) is enough time to “cook the books” so to speak and write similarities to Christianity. The information in it is more than likely unreliable due to such a large gap in time. And if the Avesta was updated over time, then it is more plausible that Zoroastrianism borrowed concepts from Christianity. In comparison, the manuscripts of the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles is much much closer in time. Their writings were very late and doesn’t have the historicity that the Bible does.

The Old Testament scriptures were wrote way way way before the Avesta were said to have been written, and the New Testament was written in the 1st century, the manuscripts of the New Testament is much closer in years than Zoroastrianisms. So there’s no way Judaism or Christianity could have borrowed ideas from Zoroastrianism. It had to be the other way around. Zoroastrianism borrowed ideas from Judaism and Christianity.

And God would not condone parts of a false religion to be taught and written down to be the law of Moses. Same with Christianity, and so the people who say the law of Moses and Christianity were influenced by Zoroastrianism are jokers. Had they been influenced or borrowed any part of Zoroastrianism, then that would mean God was perfectly okay with the false teachings by Zoroastrianism to be taught, to be influencing, and to be written down as the law of Moses and as Christianity. It would be like Him saying Zoroastrianism is part of the law of Moses and also part of Christianity. I don’t buy that for a second. The Word of God is inspired by God. Any human influence towards error would be corrected by that inspiration.

It feels like some scholar made these claims once, everyone believed him, and now it’s just a big echo chamber where all accept these ideas as fact without knowing where they came from and if they were indeed sound in the first place.

The following is from Dr. John Weldon, “Is Jesus Unique When Compared To Other Religious Leaders?”

“Anyone who wishes can also read the world’s greatest religious and philosophical literature—the Analects of Confucius, the Qur’an of Muhammad, the Vedas of the Hindus, the teachings of the Buddha, or of Taoism, Shinto, Zoroaster or any of the great philosophers like Plato, Socrates, Wittgenstein, Aristotle, Descarte, Hume, Bacon—or any of the greatest scientific minds such as Einstein. One who does this will realize that they all pale in comparison to the words of Jesus. One could argue that all the literature of the world combined hardly matches the quality, character, uniqueness and truth of the words of Jesus, because, compared to the words of Jesus, the words of anyone else are almost lifeless.”

“Those with open and closed minds alike should frankly study His words if for no other reason than to prove their uniqueness. Reverent study of the words of Christ and comparison to any or all other religious teachings should logically make one a follower of Jesus.

I, John Weldon, majored in philosophy in college for almost two years, have an M.A. degree in Christian Evidences, another Masters in Biblical Studies and a Ph.D. in Comparative Religion. Additionally, I have studied some 70 minor religions and cults. For 25 years I have examined or studied competing religions and philosophies. Nothing comes close to the glory and majesty of Jesus. I can say without the slightest possibility of ever being proven wrong that there is no one anywhere like Jesus.”

Zoroaster only claimed to be a prophet, “I was ordained by Thee at the first. All others I look upon with hatred of spirit.”[7] Lao-tze and Guru Nanak sum up the attitude, at one time or another, of all the great religious founders when they confessed their humanity and even their ignorance. For example, Lao-tze the founder of Taoism said, “I alone appear empty. Ignorant am I, O so ignorant! I am dull!… I alone am confused, so confused!”[8] Even in the latter part of his life, Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism still struggled to achieve enlightenment and lamented over his own spiritual darkness, “I have become perplexed in my search. In the darkness I find no way. Devoted to pride, I weep in sorrow…. How shall deliverance be obtained?”[9]

In The World’s Living Religions, Professor of the History of Religions, Robert Hume comments that there are three features of Christian faith that “cannot be paralleled anywhere among the religions of the world.”[10] These include the character of God as a loving heavenly Father, the character of the founder of Christianity as the Son of God, and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Further,

All of the nine founders of religion, with the exception of Jesus Christ, are reported in their respective sacred scriptures as having passed through a preliminary period of uncertainty, or of searching for religious light…. All the founders of the non-Christian religions evinced inconsistencies in their personal character; some of them altered their practical policies under change of circumstances. Jesus Christ alone is reported as having had a consistent God-consciousness, a consistent character himself, and a consistent program for his religion.[11]

Zoroastrianism— their god, Ahura Mazda, is assisted, they believe, in governing the world by the seven “Amesha Spentas”, the “Beneficial/Holy Immortals”. Chief among them is Spenta Mainyu, Ahura Mazda’s Holy Spirit. The seven, in turn, are assisted by a large number of deities called yazatas, “ones worthy of worship.”
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tl;dr
 
You usually do and it rarely has anything to do with the topic at hand ... like this post. <shrug>
To be honest sawdust I'm not surprised you would say that, with the people you've decided to make company, such a shame that's all I can say

In case you've not noticed the thread is called can we exercise free wil, it's a bit silly really you believing in free will and you and @Blue @Genez @cv5 and other free willers, all trying to control what should be said, here, its laughable

But really sawdust you've changed all the things I've had to say in a different direction, everytime I've spoke to you.

Anyway I've also noticed you like put your foot down when people are saying things, so i guess that's makes your free will. More important.

Anyway sawdust it's been nice to chatting to you, 🙂
 
You usually do and it rarely has anything to do with the topic at hand ... like this post. <shrug>
here's a pondering thought,
The funny thing is he didn't say and let us make everybody with there own independent free will

He said let us make man in our image, nowhe didn't say men and he didn't say mankind he said man, , so whatever will he put in us, it was the same will for everybody,, which means we all have the same will in us, not exactly free to just you now is it.
.

It may come as shock to you, that God created you how he wanted to, but then he is your father 🙂
 
Clapton is one of the greatest guitarists who has ever lived. Influenced so many players.
I saw him in concert with Mark Knopfler as his side-kick.

I went to see Mark a number of years ago, also, when he opened for Bob Dylan.

I took a nephew and my daughter to see that concert... I fell asleep during Bob's act LOL.

He growled and barked and generally mangled the vocals so much I barely recognized Tangled up in Blue.

I used to jam that song, and knew all the words...
 
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I saw him in concert with Mark Knopfler as his side-kick.

I went to see Mark a number of years ago, also, when he opened for Bob Dylan.

I took a nephew and my daughter to see that concert... I fell asleep during Bob's act LOL.

He growled and barked and generally mangled the vocals so much I barely recognized Tangled up in Blue.

I used to jam that song, and knew all the words...
I was going to post to original at first I thought against it, because I thought people would be horrible about the fact he once took heroin.

And took notice about his recovery and becoming a Christian. 🙂
 
I saw him in concert with Mark Knopfler as his side-kick.

I went to see Mark a number of years ago, also, when he opened for Bob Dylan.

I took a nephew and my daughter to see that concert... I fell asleep during Bob's act LOL.

He growled and barked and generally mangled the vocals so much I barely recognized Tangled up in Blue.

I used to jam that song, and knew all the words...
😊