Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

If you actually studied the original tongues, the Jewish mindset, near-east though patterns etc. you would rightly comprehend the Bible (codified in mnemonics many times) patterns and message. And you wouldn't be stuck in your Calvinist dungeon of ignorance.

Categorically the Reformed/Calvinists are for all intents and purposes 100% wrong 100% of the time. It's truly an amazing phenomenon to behold. But this is to be expected if you are looking for Reformed dogma in every verse when in fact none exists anywhere.

Interestingly, there are many Calvinists on this thread that have never exegeted one solitary verse correctly by my reckoning.

And FYI, the Passover pattern and Jewish wedding protocol pattern utterly destroy Calvinism. And you haven't the foggiest idea of why.

I like the Calvie teachings better than yours

here's clear proof regeneration is a result of being blessed with the fruits of the spirit


1 Peter 3:10-11

New International Version



10 For,
“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11 They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.

 

[Jordon]

If you actually studied the original tongues, the Jewish mindset, near-east though patterns etc. you would rightly comprehend the Bible (codified in mnemonics many times) patterns and message. And you wouldn't be stuck in your Calvinist dungeon of ignorance.

Categorically the Reformed/Calvinists are for all intents and purposes 100% wrong 100% of the time. It's truly an amazing phenomenon to behold. But this is to be expected if you are looking for Reformed dogma in every verse when in fact none exists anywhere.

Interestingly, there are many Calvinists on this thread that have never exegeted one solitary verse correctly by my reckoning.

And FYI, the Passover pattern and Jewish wedding protocol pattern utterly destroy Calvinism. And you haven't the foggiest idea of why.

I like the Calvie teachings better than yours

Ooh and here's clear proof regeneration is a result of being blessed with the fruits of the spirit


1 Peter 3:10-11

New International Version



10 For,
“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11 They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.

He accomplished all that was needed to save all people.

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, ​

who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. " 1 Timothy 4:10​

​

Why do you think God will be so wrathful with those who fail to believe? He died for them on the Cross!

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:11-13​

​

I am sticking with the Word.​

if you ask somebody who worships satan if they believe in Jesus he will say yeah like you do

 

[sawdust]

Obviously you are correct. So then ask yourself how is it remotely possible for anyone to be so utterly wrong about this?

BTW I was thinking about posting a similar rebuttal but then I considered the nature of the audience and recognized that the effort would be a total waste of my time.

Two words ... people testing.

Ultimately, the Day will reveal all.

 

[sawdust]

Jesus said Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Childlike and childish are not the same things.

 

[GWH]

Your obsessed with tulip more than any Calvie affiliated people just saying

Well, I am trying to help my fellow MFWers realize the problematic part of Augustinianism and focus the teachings of GW accordingly.

 

[cv5]

Your obsessed with tulip more than any Calvie affiliated people just saying

You should be obsessed with the fact that TULIP, Calvinism, Reformed dogma etc does NOT concatenate with the intentional PATTERNS set forth in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Joshua.

And then be obsessed with determining how and why Calvinism utterly fails this absolutely necessary test of authenticity.

Rom 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

But you won't. You will continue to do something similar to these infantile games:

Luk 7:32
They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

 

[rogerg]

I've never said it wasn't about salvation. It's Zechariah's prophecy concerning his son John. He is saying John will grow to pave the way for the Messiah and let people know that salvation is at hand for the nation of Israel. Of course what Israel didn't know is that salvation would come by way of forgiveness of sin (ie. the Cross) and not an armed warrior like David.

If anything it says the very opposite of what you claim (the bit in bold) in that it is John who comes first with the knowledge of salvation and then the Christ comes with salvation.

No, you couldn't be more wrong - you are viewing those verses only from a physical not a spiritual perspective. It was Christ that Zechariah was prophesizing about to John when he said, "his people", not "your people". John could not give the knowledge of salvation to even one of Christ's people; neither could John's baptism forgive sins; those were not within his power to do - further, he didn't baptize all of Christ's " people" so John could not be the one in view. Everything that John did was purely symbolic and ceremonial to commemorate and memorialize that was occurring spiritually to those being baptized or who would be baptized - even if they didn't completely realize or understand it at the moment. Were it not that, then water baptism, of itself, would have had no significance. John symbolically "prepared his ways" through that baptizing but only Jesus has the power to actually accomplish spiritually what was declared in 1:77, John did not. John was but a messenger, imbued with no spiritual power of himself- it is Christ who is the only true power and the true giver, otherwise, the verse on its face would be wrong (which would be impossible), because John simply could not satisfy what was stated therein - Christ, not John, is the Savior who gives salvation, the knowledge of salvation, and everything else that accompanies or is related to salvation unto to His people, and that is the point of all of those verses.
You also need to consider the following verses - 1:77 isn't independent of those.

 

[cv5]

No, you couldn't be more wrong - you are viewing those verses only from a physical not a spiritual perspective. It was Christ that Zechariah was prophesizing about to John when he said, "his people", not "your people". John could not give the knowledge of salvation to even one of Christ's people; neither could John's baptism forgive sins; those were not within his power to do - further, he didn't baptize all of Christ's " people" so John could not be the one in view. Everything that John did was purely symbolic and ceremonial to commemorate and memorialize that was occurring spiritually to those being baptized or who would be baptized - even if they didn't completely realize or understand it at the moment. Were it not that, then water baptism, of itself, would have had no significance. John symbolically "prepared his ways" through that baptizing but only Jesus has the power to actually accomplish spiritually what was declared in 1:77, John did not. John was but a messenger, imbued with no spiritual power of himself- it is Christ who is the only true power and the true giver, otherwise, the verse on its face would be wrong (which would be impossible), because John simply could not satisfy what was stated therein - Christ, not John, is the Savior who gives salvation, the knowledge of salvation, and everything else that accompanies or is related to salvation unto to His people, and that is the point of all of those verses.
You also need to consider the following verses - 1:77 isn't independent of those.

"John could not give the knowledge of salvation to even one of Christ's people;"

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jhn 1:36
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Mat 21:31
“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:32
“For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

 

[rogerg]

"John could not give the knowledge of salvation to even one of Christ's people;"

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jhn 1:36
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Mat 21:31
“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.

Mat 21:32
“For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

Not by John but by God working within them that they understand. You can preach the gospel all day long to someone but
unless God is working within them, they will not understand or believe. It is only by God, not man.


[Jhn 6:45 KJV] 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[brightfame52]

He accomplished all that was needed to save all people.

Oh No He accomplished saving His people. The Jesus of scripture to believe in. So you don't believe that?

 

[brightfame52]

If you actually studied the original tongues, the Jewish mindset, near-east though patterns etc. you would rightly comprehend the Bible (codified in mnemonics many times) patterns and message. And you wouldn't be stuck in your Calvinist dungeon of ignorance

Did not I tell you one does not need to study Greek to understand the scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

... because they don't believe.

Because the Gospel is hidden from them.

 

[cv5]

Not by John but by God working within them that they understand. You can preach the gospel all day long to someone but
unless God is working within them, they will not understand or believe. It is only by God, not man.


[Jhn 6:45 KJV] 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Misdirection and red herrings are standard Calvinist tactics when they are proven dead wrong.
Which you most certainly were.

The fact is: you struck out on the Zacharias speech abysmally, understanding nothing, and instead issuing an absurd pseudo-intellectual word salad to veil your ignorance.

 

[brightfame52]

You know Christ died for our sin, not our salvation. Our salvation is in His resurrection, His death cleared the way to make life possible. Christ could die a thousand deaths, but if there were no resurrection, no life for anyone. We live, because He lives.

I realize that is what you believe. I believe His death removed the sin barrier for everyone so that whosoever believes can come.

The Christ of the scripture is not the false Christ who merely made salvation possible. If that is the Christ you believe in, that is a false christ

 

[BillyBob]

Regardless of their theology they were MURDERERS like the father of all murder and "no murderer has eternal life residing in him"

Would this include David, an anointed king, the great psalm writer, a man after God's heart? Just asking. . . . . . . . .

 

[cv5]

Two words ... people testing.

Ultimately, the Day will reveal all.

For the Calvinist/Reformed, the routine is:
another day, another word salad/diatribe, another epic failure.

 

[Genez]

It is possible because choosing to believe TULIP exercises MFW.
Witnessing is a waste of time with those not seeking truth.

They have found a cause to give meaning to their lives...
And, needing to defend it gives them a challenge to keep proving themselves, to themselves and peers. Mutual admiration society.

It's a cycle of diversion away from having nothing the Spirit will bear witness to with inner peace, with misapplied and misunderstood passages to make them feel that they are the ones that have something that others do not. "Smug peace."

SMFT

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes..and according to Calvinists, one does not have the ability to seek until God supernaturally regenerates them.

Yes and according to their scholars ...

Regeneration is...

".... in its most limited sense a change that occurs in the sub-conscious life.

It is a secret and inscrutable work of God that is never directly perceived by man.

The change may take place without man's being conscious of it momentarily, though this is not the case when regeneration and conversion coincide; and even later on he can perceive it only in its effects.

This explains the fact that a Christian may, on the one hand, struggle for a long time with doubts and uncertainties, and can yet, on the other hand, gradually overcome these and rise to the heights of assurance. "

Louis Berkhof: Systematic Theology Link


I just really wonder why anyone would promote this UN-biblical nonsense except to protect their adopted, special elite status.

This god acts on a person who has no awareness of what is happening and why, which in essence makes the scripture about this god and his chosen marionettes.

 

[cv5]

Not by John but by God working within them that they understand. You can preach the gospel all day long to someone but
unless God is working within them, they will not understand or believe. It is only by God, not man.


[Jhn 6:45 KJV] 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Yes, here comes the "Sovereignty of God" mop meant wipe the floor clean of their stinking pile of failure and guilt.
Then they can start the game anew, trotting out the same tired falsehoods and bogus dogma.

Standard Calvinist gameplay meant to keep the game going so that they might fleece some more Biblically illiterate newbies who happens to wander into the paddock.

 

[cv5]

Yes and according to their scholars ...

Regeneration is...

".... in its most limited sense a change that occurs in the sub-conscious life.

It is a secret and inscrutable work of God that is never directly perceived by man.

The change may take place without man's being conscious of it momentarily, though this is not the case when regeneration and conversion coincide; and even later on he can perceive it only in its effects.

This explains the fact that a Christian may, on the one hand, struggle for a long time with doubts and uncertainties, and can yet, on the other hand, gradually overcome these and rise to the heights of assurance. "

Louis Berkhof: Systematic Theology Link


I just really wonder why anyone would promote this UN-biblical nonsense except to protect their adopted, special elite status.

This god acts on a person who has no awareness of what is happening and why, which in essence makes the scripture about this god and his chosen marionettes.

Ask the Calvinists: when was the last time that a Bride was not FULLY AWARE of the fact of her own wedding?