Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[sawdust]

Yeah...that's what I'm saying. He raises spiritually DEAD unbelievers in Adam from the dead whom God chose in eternity to be his sons and daughters so that they can believe! Do you doubt this truth?

No, I say He raises spiritually dead believers. Why would the Lord raise an unbeliever to life? They have rejected Him.

On what basis would God show this "favourtism" [sic], since all have sinned, and there's none righteous?

And give me a chapter and verse that says that God almighty suspends his attributes, such as his omniscience. He certainly didn't suspend in Rom 8:28-30, did He? Ask any of your fellow comrades.

There were things Jesus did not know during the Incarnation. He never stopped being God so it logically follows that the Son is able to stop Himself from accessing all His knowledge when He wants. In this way He could create all men irrespective of whether they turned out to believe in Him or not and therefore no-one could accuse Him of playing favourites by only creating believers.

And your lame interpretation of "if" doesn't fit the context of the passage.

Funny how there is no command in the bible whatsoever that requires any of God's people to study and know the original languages if they want to understand God's eternal, flawless Word. God screwed up big time, heh? Maybe Jesus should have talked about the THREE greatest commandments of all time.

What interpretation? All I said was in the Greek the interpretation of "if" is specific based on grammar and syntax. Do you not know this? English has only one condition of "if". This is a brief overview of the different "if" conditions. And regarding study, it is why He appointed pastor/teachers. This does not negate one's own responsibility but unless everyone has the time to study ancient language, history and culture there are many nuances that are missed or lessons misunderstood. I personally value all those who take their appointment as teacher seriously and put in the hard work I did not have time for as I raised three children and made a home instead.

https://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/conditional_sentences.htm

Wasn't the will of all those who accepted the gospel efficacious?

What do you think it achieved? All it did was show believers from unbelievers. If God had simply said "well, isn't that nice they all believe Me" and did nothing else, everyone would still remain dead in their sins. Our will does not do anything, it does not create reality. If God had not decided to raise believers to life, then we could believe till the cows come home but nothing would have changed.

Then you believe in the efficacy of man's will.

And Adam was not like his fallen progeny. Adam came into this world as a "very good" being -- one in a state of innocence, therefore, his will was not in bondage to a sinful nature or evil heart.

God never intended to save all people. That's why He doesn't raise all.

Huh? I honestly have no clue how you come up with that conclusion from what I said. Must I elaborate? Grace enables a man to be free to accept the word of God is true or not, it does not enable a man to believe. Grace does not guarantee belief, if it did, then Adam should have believed as Christ believed.

It's effectual in revealing a believer from an unbeliever. Beyond that it does nothing. Grace enables a man to stand in the same position as Adam while He is presented with God's truth. The problem is you assume we all have evil hearts innately. I have explained this many times. It is God who creates the heart. He does not create them evil. They become evil over time by rejecting the grace and truth of the Lord. He is in the world from the beginning, He has never forsaken mankind. From the time man hits the ground running, God is before him working to make His light and truth known. It is always grace first.

Gods intention was to give man eternal life. To say He created man with the specific intention of ensuring some would face death is abominable in my opinion and clearly defies the heart of God.

The Bible is clear as to why God does not raise all to life and that is because they do not believe, it is never because the Lord desires death. We all sinned so being a sinner is no reason to die if God can stop it but does nothing.

 

[Jordon]

@reneweddaybyday

I've read through a lot of your post in fact hundreds, and i can see for most part you have good intentions, but listen God chose Abraham to keep the way of the lord, remember what Jesus said, I am the way and the life.

So you have to ask what does it mean abram was chosen to keep the way of the lord, well it can only mean the lords way of doing things sis, and theres only one way a person can keep the way, and That's if the lord gives him the way, and makes him keep the way.

Now listen I don't want anymore talk about the past now just forget the last post I made to you, don't even bother answering, just forget all about it.

All you need to do is just forget about things.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That's not what I asked you.

here's what you asked:

So, then, you believe that Christ's atoning work on the Cross is also efficacious for all for whom He died?

that is what you asked and I replied.

That you do not agree with the response to your question does not mean I did not answer what you asked.

Let's try one more time: God's shedding of animal blood in the Garden to supply their skins as coverings for A&E sins is considered by many here to be an efficacious atonement in an of itself.

the sacrifice of the animal foreshadows the atonement.

the coats of skin foreshadows the garment of salvation.

After all, God performed that act BEFORE there was any expression of faith or repentance on the part of A&E.

assumption on your part.

Gen 3:15 occurred before the offering/sacrifice made by God.

you presume Adam and Eve did not believe what is stated in Gen 3:15. The truth stated in vs 15 is a foreshadowing of an eternal reality.

So...when we come to the Cross of Christ, was there any efficacy in that work, in and of itself,

just read what is written ...

for everyone for whom Christ died?

click

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I really do not think she cares.

I sometimes wonder if folks are aware that we will stand before God and give an account (2 Cor 5:10).

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

She was not even part of this thread and came in here breathing out lies and multiple false accusations against me,

more unsubstantiated claims ... where's the proof I "came in here breathing out lies and multiple false accusations against [you]" ?

Here are the first 25 posts submitted by me in this thread ... where's the proof substantiating your claims?

Post 1,958 - standalone post ... no mention of Magenta

Post 1,963 - reply to GWH ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,004 - reply to studier ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,057 - reply to pilgrimshope ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,066 - reply to cv5 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,115 - standalone post ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,158 - reply to studier ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,343 - reply to Cameron143 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,359 - reply to Cameron143 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,365 - reply to Cameron143 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,366 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,384 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,386 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,387 - reply to Cameron143 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,389 - reply to Rufus & Cameron143 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,430 - reply to Cameron143 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,432 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,496 - reply to Cameron143 ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,497 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,498 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,600 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,668 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,803 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,804 - - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

Post 2,822 - reply to Rufus ... no mention of Magenta

while
lecturing us on how Christians should and should not be speaking to each other, as if her post was some role model how-to.

Do you agree with these verses in Scripture?

1 Corinthians 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

1 Thessalonians 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

sad we fall so far below what God would have in the body of Christ.

Jordon, I have such people on ignore because they never own up.

"own up" ... that's rich coming from you

Or because like other perverts and God blasphemers, they are also just too disgusting.

Some of them are so dishonest, they know I have them on ignore but expect answers from me anyways.

When you reply directly to those you claim you have on ignore ... that is a sign you have not placed them on ignore ... just sayin'

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

@reneweddaybyday

I've read through a lot of your post in fact hundreds, and i can see for most part you have good intentions, but listen God chose Abraham to keep the way of the lord, remember what Jesus said, I am the way and the life.

So you have to ask what does it mean abram was chosen to keep the way of the lord, well it can only mean the lords way of doing things sis, and theres only one way a person can keep the way, and That's if the lord gives him the way, and makes him keep the way.

Here's what is written in Genesis 15:

Genesis 15:2-6

2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

God's Word is life ... God's Word is light ... God spoke directly to Abraham and Abraham believed.

When the truth of God's Word is revealed to someone, he or she either believes ... or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

If God's Word is believed, the believer receives the blessing.

If God's Word is not believed, it is due to the person suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. The unbeliever receives the consequence.

Now listen I don't want anymore talk about the past now just forget the last post I made to you, don't even bother answering, just forget all about it.

ok

All you need to do is just forget about things.

Philippians 3:13-14 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

.

 

[Jordon]

Here's what is written in Genesis 15:

Genesis 15:2-6

2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

God's Word is life ... God's Word is light ... God spoke directly to Abraham and Abraham believed.

When the truth of God's Word is revealed to someone, he or she either believes ... or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

If God's Word is believed, the believer receives the blessing.

If God's Word is not believed, it is due to the person suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. The unbeliever receives the consequence.





ok





Philippians 3:13-14 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

.

Look at this verse

Genesis 18:19

New International Version



19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”


Would you agree Abraham was chosen to keep the way of lord the minute God told him to leave his house, when God said I will show you the land I am taking you to,
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life.

Therefore Abraham had the way the truth and the life planted in him

 

[BillyBob]

I've made it which is why all the whining now happening from the Reformed.

There for a moment I thought you said the reformed are winning, as in winning the argument! Excuse me for the blatant error on my part!

 

[brightfame52]

"when they hear the Gospel" ... iow ... when the gospel is revealed to them ... in which case it is no longer "hid".

The gospel is hid to them while lost. Now when they are saved, then its revealed to them to believe.

 

[brightfame52]

Lol, none of those are definitions for the word IF hahahahaha

Thats denial

 

[brightfame52]

Spiritual death is the consequence of sinning.

Which occurred in Adam Rom 5:12, in the day he ate he died

 

[BillyBob]

***So*** you are telling us that Calvinism only works ***if*** you remove every conditional clause in the Bible?

Let's rephrase it, so even you can understand!

But if your ignorance be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: Which should be understood as [But though your ignorance be hid], it is hid to them that are lost.

 

[rogerg]

Thats denial

Correct. Truth is not found in the spiritual wisdom of lrs, just the opposite in fact, brightfame52.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well, the straw man fallacies that the Calvie's erect are not new but has been around for a while.
Just adds more credence to my contention that this is training.

 

[cv5]

There for a moment I thought you said the reformed are winning, as in winning the argument! Excuse me for the blatant error on my part!

Reformed are getting wrecked around here. Yes its awful to behold but oh so necessary.

The sins of Jeroboam must not be renewed in this day and age.

 

[Magenta]

The sins of Jeroboam must not be renewed in this day and age.

The corrupt, idolatrous self-exalting worship of free willers is akin to the sins of Jeroboam.

It is good news indeed if you are considering repenting of it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Look at this verse

Genesis 18:19

New International Version

19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

The word "chosen" in Gen 18:19 is translated from the Greek word yāḏaʿ which means to know.

Read the verse in the KJV:

Genesis 18:19 For I know [Hebrew = yāḏaʿ ] him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Here is the first use of the word yāḏaʿ in Scripture:

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know [Hebrew = yāḏaʿ ] that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing [Hebrew = yāḏaʿ ] good and evil.

Would you agree Abraham was chosen to keep the way of lord the minute God told him to leave his house, when God said I will show you the land I am taking you to,

Based on the definition of the word yāḏaʿ I agree that God knew Abraham.

the English word "chosen" is translated from the following Hebrew words

bāḥar​

bāḥîr​

bāḥûr​

bārar​

miḇḥār​

None of those words are found in Genesis 18:19 ... the word yāḏaʿ is in the verse ... yāḏaʿ means to know.

Did you know that Abraham is called the friend of God in Scripture?

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life.

Therefore Abraham had the way the truth and the life planted in him

yes, Jesus said those words and He definitely is the way the truth and the life.

In Hebrews 11, we read of Abraham his faith in offering up Isaac:

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

now go back and read from Genesis 22:

Genesis 22:3-5

3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

The word "come" in vs 5 is in the plural number ... Abraham told the two young men he brought with him that both he and Isaac would return.

Truly Abraham trusted in God ... Abraham believed God ... one day we will live with Abraham in that city Abraham (and we also) looked forward to ...

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

hope/pray you have a blessed day ...

.

 

[Genez]

@reneweddaybyday

I've read through a lot of your post in fact hundreds, and i can see for most part you have good intentions, but listen God chose Abraham to keep the way of the lord, remember what Jesus said, I am the way and the life.

So you have to ask what does it mean abram was chosen to keep the way of the lord, well it can only mean the lords way of doing things sis, and theres only one way a person can keep the way, and That's if the lord gives him the way, and makes him keep the way.

Now listen I don't want anymore talk about the past now just forget the last post I made to you, don't even bother answering, just forget all about it.

All you need to do is just forget about things.

Why Abraham only?

For God had others who could have kept the way of the Lord.
God wanted someone to place on display before all the angels to watch, and He CHOSE Abraham for the job.

Look at the record.

Abraham paid his tithes to Melchizedek, who was a king priest onto the Lord.
He was in higher standing than even Abraham!
Yet? God CHOSE Abraham to be the role model God was looking for.

You have got to put on your brakes!
You are too much zeal without knowledge.

It is dangerous to have zeal without knowledge,​

and the one who acts hastily makes poor choices. ​

​

Proverbs 19:2​

 

[Genez]

Which occurred in Adam Rom 5:12, in the day he ate he died

Yes, sir.

Physically dead men do not run and hide to put on fig leaves.

He ate.
Then, died spiritually.