Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[GWH]

And that's your problem: you only consider one word from one verse when there are multiple pertinent verses that continue the doctrine but which you refuse to consider. No serious student of the Bible would collapse six or more verses beneath one word as you do unless they are trying to make it say something that it doesn't say. Even if the "if" in that verse were considered standalone (which it shouldn't be), the verse still wouldn't say what you're trying to make it say. We've seen that game before.

You ignored me considering every verse in Romans 1-11.

 

[Jordon]

They should be insecure since a God who hates the nonelect might very well trick them into thinking they are elect.

No it's you who paints the picture God hates the none elect and you alone

 

[rogerg]

No, I said that is what Scholars and Theologians and Preachers and Teachers and Evangelists and anyone in or have been to Bible College are taught to do.

So, you're then saying you reject that technique?

Whenever you meet someone who doesn't compare Paul's Letters you immediately understand you are talking to someone who doesn't have much education studying the Bible.

How do we know it's probably Paul who wrote Hebrews?

Because we compare certain words and writing style to his other Letters.

Really? Well, the writing style of Hebrews actually doesn't match the style of Paul's books/letters. The theology is very similar but
the writing styes are not.

 

[lrs68]

really what doctrine would that be then What's the doctrine called ?

Reformed

 

[lrs68]

So, you're then saying you reject that technique?



Really? Well, the writing style of Hebrews actually doesn't match the style of Paul's books/letters. The theology is very similar but
the writing styes are not.

I don't reject it because it's a really good process to ensure the best meaning Paul is trying to tell the readers.

As far as the Book of Hebrews it almost reads like a Sermon someone preached but written in a way Luke writes which most Followers of God believe that Luke is the Author and the Preacher was Paul. But it's definitely a mystery.

 

[rogerg]

don't reject it because it's a really good process to ensure the best meaning Paul is trying to tell the readers.

It isn't a good technique; it's an absolutely terrible technique that violates the rules of Scripture as I described to you in my prior post

As far as the Book of Hebrews it almost reads like a Sermon someone preached but written in a way Luke writes which most Followers of God believe that Luke is the Author and the Preacher was Paul. But it's definitely a mystery.

Wait... in your prior post you said that you knew Hebrews was written by Paul because of writing styles, did you not? From your post:

"How do we know it's probably Paul who wrote Hebrews?

Because we compare certain words and writing style to his other Letters. "

Are you now retracting that?
You also said rubes such as me wouldn't know that:

"Whenever you meet someone who doesn't compare Paul's Letters you immediately understand you are talking to someone who doesn't have much education studying the Bible. "

 

[lrs68]

It isn't a good technique; it's an absolutely terrible technique that violates the rules of Scripture as I described to you in my prior post



Wait... in your prior post you said that you knew Hebrews was written by Paul because of writing styles, did you not? From your post:

"How do we know it's probably Paul who wrote Hebrews?

Because we compare certain words and writing style to his other Letters. "

Are you now retracting that?
You also said rubes such as me wouldn't know that:

"Whenever you meet someone who doesn't compare Paul's Letters you immediately understand you are talking to someone who doesn't have much education studying the Bible. "

Paul's Letters were not Scripture when he wrote them so it's the most VALID Technique to use.

 

[Jordon]

Reformed

so why do you fit a reformed doctrine in to 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ?
And why is reformed considered a minority to you, when the whole Christian faith was reformed ?

Sounds like your clucking at straws to me

 

[rogerg]

Paul's Letters were not Scripture when he wrote them so it's the most VALID Technique to use.

Give me a break. Are you actually being serious - if not, you're getting even more absurd. Scripture is Scripture because, and only because, God moved the scribes to write it.

 

[brightfame52]

But it doesn't say say that it is factually hidden. It says if it is. We know it's not. But what is clearly hidden is you accepting the truth that IF was written by Paul on purpose and it destroys your baloney doctrine.

Yes it is hidden to them that are lost. Also the word hid in 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost

The word is in the perfect passive participle

Its a completed action in the past with results into the present, and its a power acting upon them.

As long as a person is in a lost condition, the Gospel is hid from them and so they cant believe it.

 

[brightfame52]

Death has not been properly defined.

Its death in sin. Its of a spiritual nature

 

[csayre]

"In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps." Proverbs 16:9 Tim Keller does the best sermon on the topic I've ever heard. It's very deep, but very thought provoking and very God-affirming. Check it out.:

Check it out.

 

[Jordon]

Reformed

I want to see this reformed doctrine of 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 show me ty

 

[rogerg]

Yes it is hidden to them that are lost. Also the word hid in 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost

The word is in the perfect passive participle

Its a completed action in the past with results into the present, and its a power acting upon them.

As long as a person is in a lost condition, the Gospel is hid from them and so they cant believe it.

I wish you luck, brightfame52. lrs is basing everything on the "if" in v4:3 and ignores
verses before and after it. I had thought it was just a problem with his reading perception, but now
I've moved past that thinking he's actually trying to sabotage the meaning of those verses to make them
compatible to FW beliefs.

 

[brightfame52]

But it doesn't say say that it is factually hidden. It says if it is. We know it's not. But what is clearly hidden is you accepting the truth that IF was written by Paul on purpose and it destroys your baloney doctrine.

The word if doesn't help you, the word if also means whether, meaning whether in a saved or lost condition. Men are going to be in one or the other when they hear the Gospel. So your if argument is a strawman to deny the truth. So dont tell folk to show you scripture in a debate, because when they do, you find a way to deny it.

 

[rogerg]

The word if doesn't help you, the word if also means whether, meaning whether in a saved or lost condition. Men are going to be in one or the other when they hear the Gospel. So your if argument is a strawman to deny the truth. So dont tell folk to show you scripture in a debate, because when they do, you find a way to deny it.

Absolutely correct.

 

[brightfame52]

I wish you luck, brightfame52. lrs is basing everything on the "if" in v4:3 and ignores
verses before and after it. I had thought it was just a problem with his reading perception, but now
I've moved past that thinking he's actually trying to sabotage the meaning of those verses to make them
compatible to FW beliefs.

Yeah that if argument is weak, it just means whether or not. Men are either in a saved condition when hearing the cross or a lost condition like here 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Cor 2:15-16

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

So thats the if reason to denote alternative of condition, its certain to be one or the other.

 

[Rufus]

I am not praying for the world, but for those You have given me, for they are Yours. John 17 v 9 I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD. They will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with all their heart. Jeremiah 24 v 7

There's that Big Cosmic Bully doing it again -- FORCING people to return to Him by giving them a new heart. I bet He didn't ask for their permission either to do Good to and for them.

 

[brightfame52]

There's that Big Cosmic Bully doing it again -- FORCING people to return to Him by giving them a new heart. I bet He didn't ask for their permission either to do Good to and for them.

lol what kinda god going to ask somebody permission ? This is as blasphemous as can get.

 

[Rufus]

You really do not get it but it's nice chatting with you.

When the sun rises because you believe it will, then I will congratulate you on raising the sun. If your believing had nothing to do with the sun rising then maybe you might start to understand how we are not our own saviour because we believe.

Have a really, really nice day.

And when the Son raises the dead from their spiritual tombs to empower them to believe in Him, just remember your "freewill" had nothing to do with it, anymore than Lazarus' will had to do with his resurrection.