Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Pelagian heretics such as yourself believe you do not need God in order to come to belief. Free will is not a Biblical concept but you hold onto it like a dog with a bone and refuse to accept Biblical correction on your many many errors which you do not even acknowledge. I can list them for you again, which I will do after this from GQ.

Pelagianism is the unbiblical teaching that Adam’s sin did not affect future generations of humanity. According to Pelagianism, Adam’s sin was solely his own, and Adam’s descendants did not inherit a sinful nature passed down to them. God creates every human soul directly, and therefore every human soul starts out in innocence, free from sin. We are not basically bad, says the Pelagian heresy; we are basically good.

Pelagianism is named after Pelagius, a monk who lived in the late 300s and early 400s AD. Pelagius began teaching the doctrine associated with his name in an effort to promote holy living among Christians. When people sinned, Pelagius grew weary of hearing the excuse of “I can’t help it. It’s in my nature to do wrong.” To counter that excuse, Pelagius stressed the freedom of the human will, essentially teaching that all sin is the result of a conscious choice of evil over good; everyone has the ability to freely choose to do good all the time. And, since there is no such thing as original sin or an inherited sin nature, then we cannot blame Adam. God created us good, so no one ever has an excuse for sinning. If you’re not living a holy life, it’s because you’re not trying hard enough.

Pelagianism contradicts the Bible in many places. Romans 5 solidly refutes the notion that Adam’s sin had no effect on us:

• “Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned” (verse 12).
• “Many died by the trespass of the one man” (verse 15).
• “The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation” (verse 16).
• “By the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man” (verse 17).
• “One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people” (verse 18).
• “Through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners” (verse 19).

Further, the Bible tells us that we are sinful from the moment of conception Psalm 51:5. All human beings die as a result of sin Ezekiel 18:20; Romans 6:23.

While Pelagianism says that human beings are not born with a natural inclination toward sin, the Bible says the opposite Romans 3:10–18. Anyone who has raised children can attest to the fact that infants do not have to be taught how to sin; on the contrary, they must be carefully and consistently taught how to avoid sin and behave wisely, prudently, and righteously.

Pelagianism’s underlying fault is its reliance on human freedom and willpower instead of the grace of God. In saying that we all possess an inherent power to choose holiness for ourselves, Pelagius made the grace of God of no effect. The Bible says that, before the grace of God saves us, we are “dead” in our sins Ephesians 2:1; Pelagianism says it’s not so bad as all that. We can choose to obey God’s commands, and, if we only knew our true nature, we could please God and save ourselves.

You say the same things because you are a Pelagian heretic along with others here who cling like mad men to the unBiblical philosophically based self-exalting concept of free will. You seek to deceive everybody by claiming you stick with what the Bible says.

You gave your own corrections to your errors in thinking.

How bad can you be?

 

[HeIsHere]

People.on here who use those kind of insults do it for no other reason than they know it irritates the other person. Or they think it does. I've got into a few times on here im sure we all have. The last 2 that I remember I actually felt like dirty inside and repented. Thats not how Jesus wants us to act. So the people in here that do it 20 times a day 7 days a week. It makes me wonder who leads thier heart. The most common excuse I hear is we'll you say it to me. You know what that reminds me of... Billy stop poking your sister... but she did it first... no I didnt... yes you did. Its a bunch of grown ups acting like 3 year olds with disgust in their hearts. Posting pictures of people then making fun of what they look like with your Co workers is disgusting. Flat out disgusting behavior.

Yes the comment about how someone looks was very low, very disturbing.

Calling someone a "pervert" someone I believe is a brother in Christ, @Bible_Highlighter is the disgusting as well.

This thread has run its course most people have abandoned ship, those who know the so called "doctrines of grace" do not glorify God can move on in peace.

For those of us who were inculcated for a time, we have attested there is no peace, joy or greater love in that system.

I think many of us lingered because we know the tremendous damage this system does to the Good News of Christ Jesus.

I do think there is truth to this because it shows what "the system" is at its most basic level. An absolute travesty.

 

[Magenta]

I just stay with what is written in the text.

No you do not. You give unBiblical opinions, butcher Scripture, and repeat errors and blasphemies.

Errors which you refuse to acknowledge and just keep repeating. Same as your blasphemies.

The free will belief requires that you contradict and deny deny deny what the Bible explicitly states.

It is even more primitive than believing in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as taught by the disciples/apostles of Christ.

You also rewrite Scripture, have a habit of butchering it to make it say what you want it to rather than what it actually does, while refusing to acknowledge what it actually says, calling explicit articulations eisegisis, and claim corroborating parallel verses are taken out of context. You would rather blaspheme God than admit any error.

Well we know you do not care about truth, since you misrepresent it so very often, and not only Scripture, but the views of others, your own self, and also the record of history, because you love your logical fallacies as much as your falsehoods. And we have never seen you beg forgiveness for your repeated false depictions of what the Bile says, as you claim those you oppose should do, or even for blaspheming God, which you have done a number of times... no apologies there, no begging forgiveness, not even saying you should not have said the things you have, no acknowledgement that you are so glaringly obviously wrong one could be excused for thinking you had not even ever read the Bible to begin with before making your proclamations. No, instead you claim you are defending God's character, even as you support others who shamelessly blaspheme God. When you are corrected, when you contradict and deny what the Bible explicitly articulates, and it is pointed out to you again and again what it actually says, you simply repeat what you have been saying all along, and tell us relevant verses have been taken out of context. You and your Pelagian heretic buddies contradict and outright deny so much of what is explicitly stated.

Scripture says, the world cannot receive the spirit of truth. Your view is, it can. Scripture says the man of flesh (unregenerated) cannot submit to or obey God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he can. Scripture says a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, it can. Scripture says the natural man is opposed to the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he is not. Scripture says the gospel is hid. Your view is, the gospel is not hid. Jesus said not everyone hears. Your view is, everyone hears. Scripture says flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. Your view is, the flesh can choose to make a decision a plethora of Scriptures say it cannot, to please God and bring forth fruit unto life. Scripture says the devil has taken people captive to do his will. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, man has a will that is free. Scripture says no man can come to God unless God draws them. Your view is, divine intervention is not necessary. Your view is, man has everything he needs to come to believe. Scripture makes plain certain things are only known through the Spirit and revelation which you continually denigrate. Scripture shows over and over again from Genesis all the way through to Revelation that God reveals Himself differently from one person to the next. Your view is, God is unfair if He were to reveal Himself in any way differently from one person to the next. Your view is those you disagree with should preach in cemeteries, then you lie about conflating spiritual death with physical death. Your view is to not only blaspheme God yourself, but agree with those who blaspheme God in other ways. Along with other free willers, you come across as despising God's sovereignty, and call Him doing things for His own purposes doing them "for no good reason." No matter how you look at it, your theological stance on this issue directly contradicts and outright denies what the Bible explicitly articulates in a number of places, and you are not likely to change it any time soon because to bring your view into line with what Scripture actually teaches would bring your whole house of cards down, and demolish your vain self-exalting stance. You cannot have that, since you are far too attached to your ear-tickling doctrine. One could even say you were in love with it. You certainly love it more than the Truth of Scripture.

 

[Magenta]

Yes the comment about how someone looks was very low, very disturbing.

Oh, yes, B_H commented on how several women looked, do you mean that? No? Right. Hypocrite.

Do you mean how Gene made similar comments? No? Oh. Actually you seemed totally
ignorant of all that went down around that but feel you have a valid opinion anyways.

 

[Rufus]

BELIEVERS get saved. ALL believers are elected for service/reign/blessings/rewards/sanctification ect. Simple.

So was Israel elected for service, as was The One and Truth Faithful Servant of God whose name was Jesus. Faithful service to the Lord is part 'n' parcel to God's great salvation. Appealing to service, as though it were a mere incidental aspect to salvation, clearly manifests your ignorance of the scriptures.

 

[Magenta]

This thread has run its course most people have abandoned ship, those who know the so called "doctrines of grace" do not glorify God can move on in peace.

Why are you still here being a hypocrite and repeating your blasphemies and unBiblical opinions?

 

[HeIsHere]

You gave your own corrections to your errors in thinking.

How bad can you be?

Can you elaborate. You have a certain a insight.

 

[Genez]

"Satan laughing spreads his wings"
Ozzy

I'll let you folks get back to your fun.

There is nothing in this endless debate that glorifies Christ as far as I can tell.

I'm trying very hard to be kind and not pass judgment.

But really, who cares? Your doctrines, your dogmas, your strongly held scripturally supported beliefs, whatever, whatever you call them, and however highly you may value your own opinions, it doesn't matter which side you're on, none of this endless strife does one single thing to advance or expand the Kingdom of God, not one iota.

Its a very sad thing to witness, and it surely grieves the Holy Spirit.

But what do I know, I guess my comments border on heresy for some of you, which has already been implied by my loving sister magenta.

Peace

That is why this kind of format always ends up with blood splattering the walls, because there is no real authority that is needed to keep things under control and moving ahead.

It might be used of God for spiritual training of those capable.
But, otherwise, it is like walking into ambushes by the natives on a daily basis.

It is conflict training for growth for some.
And a place to quickly back out of, for others.
It is like walking into a spiritual pin-ball machine.

grace and peace ............

 

[Rufus]

The real problem with Pelagianism is that it asserts a person can achieve righteousness and even a sinless life through their own free will and effort, without the necessity of special divine grace.

Therefore it essentially nullifies the cross and resurrection.

Human Perfectibility: The core belief is that it is theoretically possible for humans to live a life of perfect righteousness by following God's commands and Christ's example through their own willpower.
**Gemini

What is so "special" about "divine grace" that is 100% ineffectual and only makes salvation possible?

 

[Magenta]

Have you rejected OSAS then?

 

[Genez]

Why are you still here being a hypocrite and repeating your blasphemies and unBiblical opinions?

Are you A.I. programmed to be insulting to Spirit filled believers?

You have no heart!

You must be a very lonely person.

Keep in mind.
Being alone does not make one lonely.

 

[HeIsHere]

What is so "special" about "divine grace" that is 100% ineffectual and only makes salvation possible?

That is not what that statement is about btw.

 

[Magenta]

That is not what that statement is about btw.

You do not believe God is necessary in the process of coming to believe. You have said so yourself. You think
people have evolved. You likely think you came to belief all on your own. You are a Pelagian heretic.

You even agreed with another God blasphemer (gosh it is disturbing how many free willers are God blasphemers!) that for God to act unilaterally would make Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will. You are as disgusting as he is.

 

[Rufus]

There are no Pelagians here. You were shown that several times already.

Perhaps not; but clearly this thread has its share of antichrists! Not one FWer could bring him/herself to confess that the world is a better place to live due to God's elect co-workers helping Him to restrain evil in this world. This to me was a tacit admission that you FWers think the world would be better place to live in with fewer Christians in it -- or even best without any it it!

 

[Genez]

You do not believe God is necessary in the process of coming to believe.

You try to frustrate some by not hearing what they say.
And, keep telling them what you would have wanted them to say,
so you can go into your well rehearsed routine which is untrue about them.

You like slapping people around and blaming them for it.

 

[Rufus]

That is not what that statement is about btw.

In other words, you have no clue as to what makes God's divine grace so special. In one sense, I can't blame you for not being able to answer intelligently and honestly, since that very "special" divine grace most definitely empowers the vast majority of people in the world to reject the gospel. giving God Almighty a lousy batting average.

 

[HeIsHere]

In other words, you have no clue as to what makes God's divine grace so special. In one sense, I can't blame you for not being able to answer intelligently and honestly, since that very "special" divine grace most definitely empowers the vast majority of people in the world to reject the gospel. giving God Almighty a lousy batting average.

Sometimes an accusation is a confession.

 

[Magenta]

You try to frustrate some by not hearing what they say.
And, keep telling them what you would have wanted them to say,
so you can go into your well rehearsed routine which is untrue about them.

You like slapping people around and blaming them for it.

She said divine intervention was not required. Why do you lie about it?

Ah, it is you being pretentious and thinking you know something you do not.

Another asked her specifically about it and she deflected and gave an evasive answer.

Twice I then asked if he was satisfied with her non-answer but of course he refused to answer.

The lack of honesty among the free will crowd is disgusting.

 

[Genez]

Perhaps not; but clearly this thread has its share of antichrists! Not one FWer could bring him/herself to confess that the world is a better place to live due to God's elect co-workers helping Him to restrain evil in this world. This to me was a tacit admission that you FWers think the world would be better place to live in with fewer Christians in it -- or even best without any it it!

That is insane.

But, you say it because you know some will agree with how you said something.
Not what you said. But how you said it.

 

[Genez]

She said divine intervention was not required. Why do you lie about it?

Ah, it is you being pretentious and thinking you know something you do not.

Stop trying to slap me, please.

It is a cruel streak you have learned to sublimate into a pretense of defending the faith.