Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

all deeds are seen in the light.

Nobody is born with a reprobate mind.

All children have a relationship with the father And all are given a chance.

His word clearly teaches he will spend at least 40 years with people before leaving them to disobedience.

your making a bad name out of the true calvies.

I'm not impressed with you.

Nobody is born good either! That's why Jesus said that only God alone is good!

The only relationship the fallen world has with their Creator is one that is hate-filled, hostile and rebellious towards Him. The very essence of spiritual DEATH is separation from God, which hardly speaks well to a personal, loving, intimate relationship with Him.

Moreover, fallen men and women are not the children of God. Only believers are.

 

[Magenta]

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 13-14

 

[Rufus]

I expected nothing from team Calvin and that's exactly what I got.

I guess you can't read too swell, can you? Your reading skills, apparently, are right on par with your math skills (when you see multiple proof texts as being one verse wonders).

But maybe you can read signs here in temporal reality? Or would I be too optimistic in your case?

Most of us here are aware of the two assassination attempts on president Trump's life. In the first attempt in Butler, PA the shooter murdered innocent people in the crowd, while missing Trump. Were those deaths and the failed shot at Trump due to:

1. Dumb luck
2. Pure chance
3. God's providence?

 

[Jordon]

Nobody is born good either! That's why Jesus said that only God alone is good!

The only relationship the fallen world has with their Creator is one that is hate-filled, hostile and rebellious towards Him. The very essence of spiritual DEATH is separation from God, which hardly speaks well to a personal, loving, intimate relationship with Him.

Moreover, fallen men and women are not the children of God. Only believers are.

God the father had a relationship with many of his called who where all fallen and they remained fallen, and at points in there walk those people who remained fallen in many incidents they had there hearts opened by God, but they kept closing there own hearts again, hence why God left them in the wilderness.

I'm sorry but your limiting God as to what he can do.

 

[Blain]

In earlier posts, you seemed to believe that everything is controlled by the will of God.
In this post you are saying that He wills that everyone will turn to Him. Since many do not, you have reached a conflict that must be resolved by further study or explanation.
This is not meant as a criticism, I often do it myself!

Yes everything is controlled by the will of God what I was saying is that that in the scripture it literally says he desires all to be saved not that all will but that he desires it

I don't believe that the theology of election as in he has created some to be saved and others not but the will of God is that all he does want us to come to him but he knows some will not

 

[Blain]

Yes, it is what is says when understood in its CONTEXT! It appears you're not a big fan of understanding things in their context. Where in 2Pet 3:9, for example, does it say that God is not willing than anyone on this little green planet should perish? It doesn't! You must read that into the text.

ok then please explain what the context is that I am missing because you keep saying that but you don't explain it Because without giving evidence as to what the context is that makes the verse somehow mean something else your just repeating contxt with no actual meaning

 

[Jordon]

Yes everything is controlled by the will of God what I was saying is that that in the scripture it literally says he desires all to be saved not that all will but that he desires it

I don't believe that the theology of election as in he has created some to be saved and others not but the will of God is that all he does want us to come to him but he knows some will not

His will is inherent to every living soul

His will has many determined values in a person life

First being every knee will bow.

Second there must be repentance.

Third how can anyone do any of theses two things if he isn't opening there hearts or having some kind of relationship with them, God the father that is

 

[Rufus]

God the father had a relationship with many of his called who where all fallen and they remained fallen, and at points in there walk those people who remained fallen in many incidents they had there hearts opened by God, but they kept closing there own hearts again, hence why God left them in the wilderness.

I'm sorry but your limiting God as to what he can do.

You're unbelievable! Were not the Jews in a personal, covenant relationship with God -- by HIS doing!? Yet, even so, the vast majority of them rebelled against Him and wound up dead in the wilderness; for God permitted only the 2nd generation of Jews out of Egypt to enter the Land. But the world is hardly in a covenant relationship with God! God did not choose to enter into a personal, loving, redemptive, covenant relationship with all the nations upon the earth -- only with Israel.

For that matter, so was Israel in Jesus' day. But even so, Jesus still told the apostate Pharisees that God had no part with them -- they did not belong to God.

 

[Jordon]

You're unbelievable! Were not the Jews in a personal, covenant relationship with God -- by HIS doing!? Yet, even so, the vast majority of them rebelled against Him and wound up dead in the wilderness; for God permitted only the 2nd generation of Jews out of Egypt to enter the Land. But the world is hardly in a covenant relationship with God! God did not choose to enter into a personal, loving, redemptive, covenant relationship with all the nations upon the earth -- only with Israel.

For that matter, so was Israel in Jesus' day. But even so, Jesus still told the apostate Pharisees that God had no part with them -- they did not belong to God.

That's not the point Gods word says this.

Deuteronomy 7:7

The lord did not set his love on you or choose because you where more than any other people

 

[Jordon]

You're unbelievable! Were not the Jews in a personal, covenant relationship with God -- by HIS doing!? Yet, even so, the vast majority of them rebelled against Him and wound up dead in the wilderness; for God permitted only the 2nd generation of Jews out of Egypt to enter the Land. But the world is hardly in a covenant relationship with God! God did not choose to enter into a personal, loving, redemptive, covenant relationship with all the nations upon the earth -- only with Israel.

For that matter, so was Israel in Jesus' day. But even so, Jesus still told the apostate Pharisees that God had no part with them -- they did not belong to God.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
New International Version
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.

 

[Rufus]

Yes everything is controlled by the will of God what I was saying is that that in the scripture it literally says he desires all to be saved not that all will but that he desires it

I don't believe that the theology of election as in he has created some to be saved and others not but the will of God is that all he does want us to come to him but he knows some will not

And that's call his Dispositional Will, which should never be confused with his Decretive Will or his Preceptitve Will. God decreed in eternity to save many but not all. And there's not a single theological problem with this understanding since no one merits salvation. No one deserves grace. Grace is a gift God gives to whoever He pleases.

Also, since God knew in eternity that the vast majority (not just "some") of the world (per remnant theology) would never come to Christ, why would an all-loving God decree the existence of all unbelievers -- only to have them suffer in torment for all eternity?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So our suffering then is it also a part of the fathers will?

Even though I am unable to understand it, I would have to say YES it is. His thoughts are too high for us to fully understand.

I believe God's will for us is the life we will live in new heaven/new earth.

Gen 1-2 tells us about man and woman living in the garden of Eden. The word "eden" means "pleasure". God placed Adam and Eve in a place of pleasure ... Adam and Eve were to keep the garden.

When Adam and Eve sinned, it was not a shock to God, as if He did not know. He knew even before He created, formed, made Adam and Eve, and He devised His eternal purpose before He created anything.

We are living in the days wherein God's manifold wisdom should be revealed unto principalities and powers in the heavenlies by the church, the body of the Lord Jesus Christ over which He is the Head:

Ephesians 3:8-12

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

This is what Paul was referring to in 1 Cor 2:6-16 when he spoke of the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world unto our glory which he and the believers who were of age discussed when they were not with the general congregation.

As far as whether the suffering we go through is God's will? Some of the suffering is due to our own actions in turning from God ... some suffering is due to the onslaught of the adversary ... in both of those scenarios, God is not the instigator of the suffering.

However, God does work within as we go through suffering and God uses the trials and afflictions of this life to perfect, establish, strengthen and settle us. He guides us through our sufferings.

Even the unbeliever is not left to suffer alone. God does reach out to turn the unbeliever to Himself. Sad when they do not turn or, even worse, blame God for their suffering. The adversary sure has done his job in getting folks to believe God does not want to remove their suffering. Some unbelievers are so bound up that they believe they're living a fulfilled life and have no need for God.

.

 

[Jordon]

You're unbelievable! Were not the Jews in a personal, covenant relationship with

Does not matter if the Jews where Jews when they where called they where called, given a chance he set there love on them.

The more pressing question is when they where left in the wilderness by God, what where they then ?

Well the answer is just the same as any other person he leaves in the wilderness

 

[reneweddaybyday]

In earlier posts, you seemed to believe that everything is controlled by the will of God.
In this post you are saying that He wills that everyone will turn to Him. Since many do not, you have reached a conflict that must be resolved by further study or explanation.
This is not meant as a criticism, I often do it myself!

God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked. God's desire is that people would turn from their evil way and live.

.

 

[Rufus]

That's not the point Gods word says this.

Deuteronomy 7:7

The lord did not set his love on you or choose because you where more than any other people

Did I say God did!? Why write an inane non sequitur? The fact remains: God cut a covenant ONLY with the nation of Israel -- first through the Abrhamic Covenant then through the Mosaic Covenant of Law.

 

[Rufus]

Does not matter if the Jews where Jews when they where called they where called, given a chance he set there love on them.

The more pressing question is when they where left in the wilderness by God, what where they then ?

Well the answer is just the same as any other person he leaves in the wilderness

Yeah, it matters because God had no such covenant relationship with any other nation.

In the wilderness, the vast majority of the Jews were apostates, which is why they were forbidden to enter the Promised Land.

 

[Magenta]

Some unbelievers are so bound up that they believe they're living a fulfilled life and have no need for God.

Some of the FWers here believe God is not required in coming to faith.

The iniquities of a wicked man entrap him; the cords of his sin entangle him. He dies for lack of discipline, led astray by his own great folly. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander. Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same. Proverbs 5 v 22-23; Matthew 15 v 19; Job 4 v 8

 

[Rufus]

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
New International Version
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.

So, what does this passage have to do with the ancient Jews in the wilderness?

 

[Jordon]

So, what does this passage have to do with the ancient Jews in the wilderness?

use your head the Jews being left in the wildness has everything to do with everybody to.

This has everything to with everybody to

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
New International Version
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.

Your not making any sense Rufus.

ill leave you to it I think.

Since your unwilling to see the clear picture, and since your unwilling to take correction .

Bye Rufus

 

[Rufus]

use your head the Jews being left in the wildness has everything to do with everybody to.

This has everything to with everybody to

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
New International Version
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.

Your not making any sense Rufus.

ill leave you to it I think.

Since your unwilling to see the clear picture, and since your unwilling to take correction .

Bye Rufus

Have a nice life in your bubble.