do you read what you submit, Bible_Highlighter? you claim I "do not answer directly"??? here is how you asked "whether [ I ] believe any Bible today is the final Word of God" ...
is there any possibility that you can ask a simple question directly without including rhetoric intended to provoke to anger?
I simply read the verse and commented on what is written.
2 Thessalonians 2:5-12 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Those who receive not the truth that they might be saved are going to fall for the signs and lying wonders of the wicked one. The wicked one shall come with all deceivableness of unrighteousness and those who have pleasure in unrighteousness because they receive not the truth that they might be saved are going to perish.
so their refusal is not based in human ability?
This section of Scripture is speaking of the coming of the wicked one, the one who will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God (2 Thes 2:4).
Those who receive not the love of the truth so that they might be saved from this horrible fiasco will embrace the wicked one whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Jesus told of the end times when He said For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be (Matt 24:21). It seems to me that the end times will be worse than what Noah faced in Gen 6.
The KJV was translated from Greek ... do you ever study the underlying Greek words from which the KJV was translated?
Because you brought up Georgios Babioniotis I thought you had studied what he taught concerning "they might be saved" ... so I asked if Mr. Babioniotis had taught anything concerning "received not".
Did you study anything written by Mr. Babioniotis concerning 2 Thes 2:10?
again, your query was cloaked in some not so nice insinuations concerning me.
as far as "are you" and "do you" seeming more like rhetorical deflections? I merely responded to your shifting the focus to me rather than to the verse under discussion.
To answer your question about which Bible I read ... for the most part, I read and study from the KJV.
I am not averse to reading from other translations, but if and when I do, I generally compare what is written in other translations to what is written in KJV. Some folks don't like the KJV because of the "old English" used, but I've been reading KJV for so long, the "old English" doesn't bother me.
I do not believe I "challenge[d] the accuracy of the KJV wording". I merely suggested that receiving not the love of the truth is a key element to understanding what is conveyed not only in 2 Thes 2:10, but also the context in vss 1-12.
a profitable discussion also rests on mutual respect for one another. All who have posted in this thread can learn from each other if we want to learn. God has placed each member of the body of Christ where it has pleased Him and we are not to conclude that we do not need others and thereby lop off a most needed body part ... just sayin'
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I want to make something clear from the outset. Jesus did rebuke people directly at times, but He could do so perfectly because He is God and knows the thoughts and intents of every heart. I am not claiming that kind of authority, and I do not believe we can speak with the same divine insight that He did. However, while Jesus could directly tell someone, “Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures,” because He is the Son of God, I believe the principle we can follow is in the latter part of His example. In Matthew 22:29 He corrected their false doctrine about the resurrection by showing them the truth from the Scriptures. That is the part I seek to imitate. My goal is not to sit in judgment over a person’s heart, but to correct a wrong teaching when Scripture clearly exposes the error, even if I may drop the ball a bit in that process. Surely it is not wrong to correct others on a false belief they hold, especially when the Lord Himself corrected doctrinal misunderstandings in this same way. My target is not the person, but the belief.
While I genuinely strive not to attack the person and to focus instead on what I believe is the wrong belief, I am not perfect, and I can sometimes make a wrong assumption. I recognize that. Some of the major reasons why I am here are these: to preach the Word, to sharpen my ability to discuss Scripture with other believers, to grow in love and wisdom, to help the brethren draw closer to Jesus, and to defend what I believe is the perfect and preserved Word of God, which I hold to be the King James Bible and the original-language texts underlying it. My goal is not to tear down individuals (even if I may slip due to my hatred of what I believe is a wrong doctrine). But I am here to stand for what I believe is the truth of God’s Word. Ultimately I have to answer to the Lord Jesus and please Him and not men. So I can be overzealous at times. My words can sometimes be imperfect.
However, when I look at everything you actually said about the KJV, your own words still do not offer my the assurance I seek. You wrote,
“for the most part, I read and study from the KJV.” You also said,
“I am not averse to reading from other translations, but if and when I do, I generally compare what is written in other translations to what is written in KJV.” You then added that the “old English” does not bother you because you have been reading the KJV for a long time. These statements express familiarity and preference, but they still stop short of affirming what I was specifically asking: that the KJV is the perfect and preserved Word of God in a final form.
And just to be clear, I am not condemning the act of consulting other translations. I sometimes look at Modern Bibles myself to flesh out the meaning of certain archaic words in the KJV. However, I also fully recognize that Modern Bibles contain doctrinal errors and horrible departures from the Textus Receptus, so I never treat them as authoritative. For me, the KJV / TR is the final standard, and Modern translations are merely occasional reference tools. That is the difference between preference and conviction.
Your responses, however, never affirmed that the KJV is without error, that it is the settled Word of God for today, or that it stands as the final authority above all others. You mentioned that you “did not challenge the accuracy of the KJV wording,” which explains your intention, but it does not address the core issue. You expressed appreciation for the KJV, but nowhere did you declare the one thing that matters in a doctrinal discussion about final authority. This ongoing hesitation is what first led me to question your view, and your replies have only confirmed that concern.
If someone truly believes that God has preserved His Word perfectly in the KJV, that is not a truth they would hesitate to affirm boldly. It is not something one whispers. It is something one proclaims openly. Yet instead of giving a straightforward affirmation, the focus shifted to your reading habits and preferences. Without a clear acknowledgement of the KJV’s perfection and preservation, your position remains one of preference rather than certainty, and that is exactly what I was trying to understand from the beginning. If you don't believe the KJV is the perfect Word of God, just say so. If the KJV is 98% perfect and is the best we are going to ever get, just say so. While I am not a Modern Bible adherent, I do realize that some have not come to the knowledge of the truth that there can only be one Word of God and not many. I do strive to be loving and patient and understanding with the brethren. But as I said, I am not perfect, although I strive to be. You must understand that from my perspective,, it can be frustrating when the majority of Christianity today does not actually hold to a standard and they believe all Bibles have errors in them (Whereby they have a pick and choose your own adventure Bible mentality). I hope you understand where I am coming from. The battle and challenge that I am up against.
You can learn more about where I am coming from at my website
www.affectionsabove.com.
May the Lord Jesus bless you beyond all imagining, even if we may not agree always.
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