Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Jeremiah17-9plus-John3-19-20.png

Jeremiah 17 verse 9 plus John 3 verses 19-20 ~ The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? This is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil.
 
Romans 1:21 – 32 reveals the downward spiral to the endpoint of the reprobate mind. No one is born in that state. The reprobate mind is the result of man stepping further and further away from God. As a person continues to suppress the truth in unrighteousness, there are downward steps to the reprobate mind:

vs 21 – suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... foolish heart becomes darkened which results in behaviors shown in vss 22-23.

vs 24 – given up to uncleanness which results in behaviors shown in vss 24-25.

vs 26 – given up to vile affections which results in behaviors shown in vss 26-27.

vs 28 – reprobate mind which results in behaviors shown in vss 28-32.


according to some who have posted in this thread, natural man cannot, under any circumstances, believe any truth from God's Word. Is that what you believe, Jordon?

the reality is that many folks who are not born again believe Gen 1:1 – that God created the heavens and the earth.

many folks who are not born again believe Ex 20:13 – that murder is wrong.

many folks who are not born again believe Prov 22:6 – that it is good to train children.





nope ... you fixed it for yourself.

.

While I strongly disagree with your approach involving the Greek and which Bible is your authority, nevertheless, you made an excellent point here, brother.

May God bless you.





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John14-17a-Romans8-6-9.png

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible. The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.
 
Romans 1:21 – 32 reveals the downward spiral to the endpoint of the reprobate mind. No one is born in that state. The reprobate mind is the result of man stepping further and further away from God. As a person continues to suppress the truth in unrighteousness, there are downward steps to the reprobate mind:

vs 21 – suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... foolish heart becomes darkened which results in behaviors shown in vss 22-23.

vs 24 – given up to uncleanness which results in behaviors shown in vss 24-25.

vs 26 – given up to vile affections which results in behaviors shown in vss 26-27.

vs 28 – reprobate mind which results in behaviors shown in vss 28-32.


according to some who have posted in this thread, natural man cannot, under any circumstances, believe any truth from God's Word. Is that what you believe, Jordon?

the reality is that many folks who are not born again believe Gen 1:1 – that God created the heavens and the earth.

many folks who are not born again believe Ex 20:13 – that murder is wrong.

many folks who are not born again believe Prov 22:6 – that it is good to train children.





nope ... you fixed it for yourself.

.
everyone is born with freedom of thought Mrs, where even born with mind that can experience pleasure and pain and wonderful imagination.

It's not that bad, But who paints that picture of you, when they have you down as this mean person who depraves people.

Well the reality is sis there to busy bending Gods way to even care about how you see God, and there probably to busy hating you For Gods actions in there life.

Hence the many closed minds in the world who eventually become that dark, they no longer care how your seen or how they treat you , and they hate correction,

So no your not born with a reprobate mind that would be really cruel.

But we are born with a nature that's needs a saviour.

Romans 9:18.

This is what is meant by depraved, but it's not completely as his inherent will is active in the unsaved with Romans 9:18.

And his will here Romans 9:18 will ever speak to the unsaved in them untill his mercy shows.

Fixed it fur you 🙂

So whilst you have beautiful children who have loving imagination they still need saving sister
 
Luke18-25-27.png

Luke 18 verses 25-27 (Matthew 19 verses 24-26, Mark 10 verses 25-27) “Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
 
Proverbs28-26-Ecclesiastes7-20-Matthew7-18-Philippians2-13.png

Proverbs 28 verse 26~ “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool.” Ecclesiastes 7 verse 20~ “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.” Matthew 7 verse 18~ “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.” Philippians 2 verse 13~ “For it is God which worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.”
 
Matthew7-17-18-Luke6-4afrom-John15-4-5.png

Matthew 7 v 17-18, Luke 6 v 4a and from John 15 v 4-5 ~ Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. Apart from Me you can do nothing.
 
Oh thank you so much. May the Holy Spirit be your Guide as well!
I'm leaning more on the Arminian side as well, not entirely though. Never heard of Pelaginism but I met some Calvinists in university some years ago and I thought we had an entirely different bible. If there is any Calvinist here kind enough to educate me on the meaning of total depravity, please do. Using scripture IN CONTEXT.

There is also the position known as Molinism, as well.

Molinism is a theological system developed by the Jesuit theologian Luis de Molina in the 1500s.
It attempts to explain how God can be completely sovereign while humans still have genuine free will.
Molinism does this by proposing that God possesses something called middle knowledge.

According to Molinism, God has three logical moments of knowledge:
  1. Natural Knowledge
    God knows every possibility. He knows everything that could happen in any imaginable world.
  2. Middle Knowledge
    God knows what free creatures would do in any possible situation.
    For example, He knows how every person would freely respond to every circumstance, choice, or environment.
  3. Free Knowledge
    God knows everything that will actually happen in the world He chooses to create.
God looked at all possible worlds, knew how every person would freely respond in each scenario, and then God sovereignly chose to actualize the world that best accomplishes His purposes.

God knew and took into account, via middle knowledge, what any person would freely do under each set of circumstances when decreeing which world and which circumstances to actualize; but at the moment of choice, the person still could have done otherwise.

This allows Molinists to argue that:

• God is sovereign because He chose which world would exist.
• Humans are free because God does not force their choices.
• Election is real but grounded in God’s middle knowledge of how people freely respond.
• Foreknowledge does not require determinism.
• God does not cause evil but allows free creatures to choose it.

Molinism arose as a middle position between Calvinism and classical Arminianism.




.....
 
everyone is born with freedom of thought Mrs, where even born with mind that can experience pleasure and pain and wonderful imagination.

It's not that bad, But who paints that picture of you, when they have you down as this mean person who depraves people.

Well the reality is sis there to busy bending Gods way to even care about how you see God, and there probably to busy hating you For Gods actions in there life.

Hence the many closed minds in the world who eventually become that dark, they no longer care how your seen or how they treat you , and they hate correction,

So no your not born with a reprobate mind that would be really cruel.

But we are born with a nature that's needs a saviour.

Romans 9:18.

This is what is meant by depraved, but it's not completely as his inherent will is active in the unsaved with Romans 9:18.

And his will here Romans 9:18 will ever speak to the unsaved in them untill his mercy shows.

Fixed it fur you 🙂

So whilst you have beautiful children who have loving imagination they still need saving sister
Thanks for agreeing @Magenta 🌈🌈🌈♥️

That means a lot to me 😊
 
A Biblical Refutation of Calvinism:

I. God’s Will Is That All Men Be Saved:

Calvinism denies God wills the salvation of all, yet Scripture says:
1 Timothy 2:3-4​
“This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”​
2 Peter 3:9​
“The Lord is… not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”​

If God eternally decreed most men to damnation, these verses would not be true. Scripture says God desires all to come, not only the elect.


II. God Commands All Men To Repent:
Acts 17:30​
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at but now commandeth all men every where to repent.”​

A command from God proves the possibility of obeying. If repentance was impossible for the non elect, this command would be a mockery.


III. Christ Died For All:

Calvinism denies universal atonement, but Scripture plainly teaches Christ’s death extends to the whole world.
Hebrews 2:9​
“That he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”​
1 John 2:2​
“He is… the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.”​
John 3:16​
“For God so loved the world…”​

Christ did not give Himself only for the elect. He gave Himself for all. The Calvinist must redefine world, but Scripture already defines it.


IV. Salvation Is Offered To Whosoever:

Calvinism limits the ability to respond, but the Bible uses universal language.
Romans 10:13​
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​
Revelation 22:17​
“And whosoever will let him take the water of life freely.”​

The Bible does not say only those predetermined will can come. It says whosoever will.


V. Faith Precedes New Birth:

Calvinism teaches regeneration must happen before believing. Scripture teaches the opposite.
John 1:12-13​
“But as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name which were born…”​

Receiving and believing happen before becoming sons of God.

Galatians 3:26​
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”​

The new birth is the result of faith, not the cause of it.
Acts 3:19​
“Repent ye therefore and be converted.”​


VI. Man Is Able To Respond In This Life (Under God's Drawing):

Calvinism claims Total Inability. Scripture teaches conviction and drawing extend to all men.
John 1:9​
“That was the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”​
Titus 2:11​
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.”​
John 16:8​
“And when he is come he will reprove the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment.”​

The Spirit convicts the world. A universal call implies real ability to respond or reject.


VII. Men Resist God And His Grace:

Calvinism says grace is irresistible. Scripture says it is resisted.
Acts 7:51​
“Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost.”​
Proverbs 1:24 and 25​
“Because I have called and ye refused… ye have set at nought all my counsel.”​
Luke 7:30​
“The Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves.”​

Irresistible grace is impossible when Scripture repeatedly teaches God is resisted.


VIII. God Is Not The Author Of Sin:

Calvinism says everything that happens is decreed by God. Scripture denies this.
James 1:13​
“God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man.”​
Habakkuk 1:13​
“Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil and canst not look on iniquity.”​
1 John 2:16​
“All that is in the world… is not of the Father.”​

If God decreed all things, He decreed sin, which contradicts these passages.


IX. Judgment Is Based On What Men Do By Choice:

Calvinism teaches man has no genuine choice. Scripture bases judgment on human choices.
Romans 2:6​
“Who will render to every man according to his deeds.”​
John 3:19​
“And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light.”​
Matthew 23:37​
“I would… ye would not.”​
This language has no meaning under determinism.


X. God’s Repeated Pleas Show Real Opportunity:

Calvinism claims God only sincerely calls the elect. Scripture says God stretches out His hands to a disobedient people.
Isaiah 65:2​
“I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people.”​
Proverbs 1:23​
“Turn you at my reproof.”​
Jeremiah 29:13​
“And ye shall seek me and find me when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”​

A genuine call implies a genuine possibility.


XI. Scripture Warns That Believers Can Depart From God:

Calvinism denies that the elect can ever fall away. Scripture warns the opposite.
Hebrews 3:12​
“Take heed lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.”​
2 Peter 2:1​
They deny “the Lord that bought them” yet perish.​
1 Corinthians 9:27​
Paul kept his body under subjection “lest… I myself should be a castaway.”​

These warnings make sense only if departing is possible.






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mindofflesh.png

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14
 
Again, the context of 1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV is 1 Corinthians 2:10 KJV (which was contrasted with the deep things of God and not the gospel), and 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 KJV (the Corinthians were said to be carnal because they were justifying certain sins).



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A Biblical Refutation of Calvinism:

I. God’s Will Is That All Men Be Saved:

Calvinism denies God wills the salvation of all, yet Scripture says:
1 Timothy 2:3-4​
“This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”​
2 Peter 3:9​
“The Lord is… not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”​

If God eternally decreed most men to damnation, these verses would not be true. Scripture says God desires all to come, not only the elect.


II. God Commands All Men To Repent:
Acts 17:30​
“And the times of this ignorance God winked at but now commandeth all men every where to repent.”​

A command from God proves the possibility of obeying. If repentance was impossible for the non elect, this command would be a mockery.


III. Christ Died For All:

Calvinism denies universal atonement, but Scripture plainly teaches Christ’s death extends to the whole world.
Hebrews 2:9​
“That he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.”​
1 John 2:2​
“He is… the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.”​
John 3:16​
“For God so loved the world…”​

Christ did not give Himself only for the elect. He gave Himself for all. The Calvinist must redefine world, but Scripture already defines it.


IV. Salvation Is Offered To Whosoever:

Calvinism limits the ability to respond, but the Bible uses universal language.
Romans 10:13​
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​
Revelation 22:17​
“And whosoever will let him take the water of life freely.”​

The Bible does not say only those predetermined will can come. It says whosoever will.


V. Faith Precedes New Birth:

Calvinism teaches regeneration must happen before believing. Scripture teaches the opposite.
John 1:12-13​
“But as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name which were born…”​

Receiving and believing happen before becoming sons of God.

Galatians 3:26​
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”​

The new birth is the result of faith, not the cause of it.
Acts 3:19​
“Repent ye therefore and be converted.”​


VI. Man Is Able To Respond In This Life (Under God's Drawing):

Calvinism claims Total Inability. Scripture teaches conviction and drawing extend to all men.
John 1:9​
“That was the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”​
Titus 2:11​
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.”​
John 16:8​
“And when he is come he will reprove the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment.”​

The Spirit convicts the world. A universal call implies real ability to respond or reject.


VII. Men Resist God And His Grace:

Calvinism says grace is irresistible. Scripture says it is resisted.
Acts 7:51​
“Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost.”​
Proverbs 1:24 and 25​
“Because I have called and ye refused… ye have set at nought all my counsel.”​
Luke 7:30​
“The Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves.”​

Irresistible grace is impossible when Scripture repeatedly teaches God is resisted.


VIII. God Is Not The Author Of Sin:

Calvinism says everything that happens is decreed by God. Scripture denies this.
James 1:13​
“God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man.”​
Habakkuk 1:13​
“Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil and canst not look on iniquity.”​
1 John 2:16​
“All that is in the world… is not of the Father.”​

If God decreed all things, He decreed sin, which contradicts these passages.


IX. Judgment Is Based On What Men Do By Choice:

Calvinism teaches man has no genuine choice. Scripture bases judgment on human choices.
Romans 2:6​
“Who will render to every man according to his deeds.”​
John 3:19​
“And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light.”​
Matthew 23:37​
“I would… ye would not.”​
This language has no meaning under determinism.


X. God’s Repeated Pleas Show Real Opportunity:

Calvinism claims God only sincerely calls the elect. Scripture says God stretches out His hands to a disobedient people.
Isaiah 65:2​
“I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people.”​
Proverbs 1:23​
“Turn you at my reproof.”​
Jeremiah 29:13​
“And ye shall seek me and find me when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”​

A genuine call implies a genuine possibility.


XI. Scripture Warns That Believers Can Depart From God:

Calvinism denies that the elect can ever fall away. Scripture warns the opposite.
Hebrews 3:12​
“Take heed lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.”​
2 Peter 2:1​
They deny “the Lord that bought them” yet perish.​
1 Corinthians 9:27​
Paul kept his body under subjection “lest… I myself should be a castaway.”​

These warnings make sense only if departing is possible.






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your the worst calvinist here, as your determining your own determinism 😊.
What your citing is all of mans understanding that you lean more towards when labelling people in to groups.

Which you do out of the free will of your flesh.


The question is tho

Should you.

Well if you believe God can see your future, who's will is higher yours, ? yours or his ?

Do you believe God can see your future.

You should do, it is written in scripture.

Do you believe mans free will lives in the flesh.

You should do it's written

Do you believe the flesh gets saved or the soul.

Well you should believe it's the soul that gets saved it's written.

Which means whilst free will of a person is also assigned to the soul it's lives in a person nature.

Do you believe that nature is in rebellion with God

Well you should do its written.

So whilst you can express your own will, can it save you

Well no it can't it' also written it can't.


So the end result is who saves you.

And with this,,, Gods will sets fire to his will in you

Romans 9:18
 
Context: "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." (Romans 10:1).
So Romans 9:18 is not talking about universal unconditional election of mankind.
It's talking about the nation of Israel and their rejection of their Messiah.
2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
 
Also, if one keeps reading into chapter 11, they will see conditions.

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. " (Romans 11:17-22 KJV).

Perhaps this is just another dark passage to confuse the Calvinist, right?
However, the rational minded Bible believer will just read this passage plainly and believe it.



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Romans3-9-B-18.png

Romans 3 v 9B-18~ Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. As it is written, “There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The venom of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery lie in their wake, and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
 
Key words and concepts frequently for control: obligated, children of wrath, counsel of God's will...
Romans5-12-Ephesians2-3s.png

Romans 5 verse 12 Ephesians 2 verse 3 Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. We were by nature children of wrath.
.:)
 
Also, if one keeps reading into chapter 11, they will see conditions.

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. " (Romans 11:17-22 KJV).

Perhaps this is just another dark passage to confuse the Calvinist, right?
However, the rational minded Bible believer will just read this passage plainly and believe it.



.....
look Mr self determined Calvinist it's you who's confused.

Without him you have nothing 😊

Here these Calvie bells ringing mr Calvinist