Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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The Bible teaches that man's will is in bondage to sin and that it is Jesus who sets us free ...so if you don't believe that, you don't believe what the Bible teaches. And we already know that free willers do not believe what the Bible teaches... You need to repent of your lack of belief... And start believing what Jesus said. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
Introductory Paragraph
Before addressing Malachi 2:17, I want to make something clear. I believe it is possible that some Calvinists who are loving, humble, and sincerely seeking the Lord may indeed be saved, even though they hold to a flawed theological system. However, I do not believe this is the case for those Calvinists who openly declare or believe that God creates the majority of mankind for the expressed purpose of being tortured alive for all eternity, with no choice, no opportunity, and no say in the matter, as if that was their only destiny from the moment of creation. How do I know? The Bible reveals that those who assign evil to God are never described as His people.
Malachi 2:17 – Accusing God of Evil
Malachi 2:17 (KJV)
“Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him. When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them. Or, Where is the God of judgment.”
Malachi reveals a people who speak falsely about God’s character by suggesting that He somehow delights in those who do evil. The key statement is the one God Himself cites: “When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them.” This accusation is a direct slander against the goodness and holiness of God. It is so serious that the Lord says they have “wearied” Him with their words. These individuals are not merely confused; they are assigning an evil desire to the Almighty by claiming that He approves of wickedness. In the same way, Calvinism presents a picture of God that accuses Him of purposing evil toward the majority of mankind. According to that system, God creates most people for the single destiny of being tormented forever with no choice, no opportunity, and no possibility of responding to grace. This doctrine portrays God as designing the eternal misery of multitudes as the only purpose of their existence. Such a view directly contradicts the Scripture that declares the Lord is righteous in all His ways and holy in all His works. Malachi 2:17 stands as a warning that to ascribe evil intentions or evil delight to God is a grievous error. Calvinism’s doctrine of unconditional reprobation commits this same offense by assigning to God a purpose that Scripture does not support.
The Context:
Malachi 1:10 (KJV)
“Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought. Neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.”
God openly states that He has no pleasure in them and will not accept their offerings. Scripture never describes believers this way. This is the language of rejection, not fellowship, and it reveals a people whose worship is corrupt and whose hearts are far from God.
Malachi 2:8 (KJV)
“But ye are departed out of the way. Ye have caused many to stumble at the law. Ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.”
God charges them with departing from His way, corrupting the covenant, and causing others to fall. These are not the marks of saved people. These are the marks of spiritual rebels who stand against God. When Malachi 2:17 later records their claim that God approves evil, it is the speech of those already identified as corrupt, covenant-breaking, and outside of God’s favor.
While I wish God would mind wipe these types of Calvinists to think and do only good for them to be saved, we both know that forced salvation is nothing but a mirage or an illusion. Free will to choose God and the gospel is the one thing that God gives to man under His drawing and enlightenment. It shows if we truly love God or not. Force salvation or election does not mean one truly loves God (See my next post for an illustration).
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No, he wanted his father's blessing, not God's.
Read the passage in Hebrews 12. Esau is being used as an example of a profane person.
For God created mankind with "free will" to choose Him (under His divine enlightenment) so that he is capable of exhibiting "true love" towards God. Meaning, "true love" is always by choice and is never forced. In fact, to illustrate this point, here is an example from a comic book storyline about an almost god like entity or villain called the "Beyonder," letting a super heroine named "Dazzler" free from his powerful spell of forced love.
"Secret Wars 2:"
Secret Wars II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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"Secret Wars 2:"
Secret Wars II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Blue155
Guest
What is it with the free will crowd and their idea of God forcing people? It just looks like more of your hypocrisy. You speak of enlightenment as if you believe it but of course that's only for you and not for others. It doesn't sound like you have any idea what it is to be drawn by God's loving-kindness. It is always left out of the free will equation when they talk about other people. It's only God forcing people. You're so narrow-minded. Did you deliberately leave heart circumcision out of your little story telling with cartoons there? Man is not capable of loving God with his wicked heart. I know you like to pretend that man's heart is not incurably wicked but that's because you ignore a whole slew of verses. You could start with, there are none good but God.
Some Calvinists are 3-pointers or 4-pointers. If they say they reject the part of TULIP that is Irresistible Grace, then it would be another matter. If they are a full 5-point Calvinist, then they are not speaking consistently. There is no free will choice to choose another option when it comes to God's grace if they are a full 5-point Calvinist. Then there is Hyper Calvinism, which goes even more extreme (although it is a more consistent system than regular Calvinism, albeit still false, of course).
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Blue155
Guest
When someone has to stoop that low and make it personal, says all there is to know about the kind of individual she is. I’d not give her the time of the day if I were you.
Why is he allowed to express his false opinions but I'm not allowed to express my true opinion? You are just a hypocrite like he is. You make all kinds of personal remarks. But of course you are allowed to also, right??? Just not anybody else. When it's somebody else they're stooping, but when it's you it's quite permissible.
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Blue155
Guest
just looking out for you my friend. The fact she’d take time out of her day to post a personal photo of you then criticize it speaks volumes about her character.
Yes I took time out of my day to express my opinion to him just as he had been expressing his opinion to me over and over and over and over and over again. Meanwhile pretending he wanted to discuss Scripture while he kept avoiding my Scripture questions to talk about other things in his abusive pretentious manner... While demanding I stop speaking of other things.
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Blue155
Guest
You need to take off your maggot infested beard of CDS and view Scripture for what it says and not for what you want it to say. For instance man is a slave to sin and a lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, opposed to the spiritual things of God ... this is not a person who decides to believe what is foolishness to him and yet that is what you promote with your un-Scriptural free will nonsense.
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Blue155
Guest
Calvinism has only three possible answers, and every one of them collapses:
1. “Because God just wanted to.”
Then salvation is ultimately arbitrary.
Grace becomes randomness.
And God becomes indistinguishable from a cosmic lottery machine.
Atheists accuse God of being arbitrary, but that’s actually Calvinism, not the Bible.
2. “Because it glorifies God more that way.”
Then God needs damnation to look good.
Which means God creates most people for the sole purpose of eternally damning them to hell fire and brimstone so He can put His “glory” on display.
That’s not holiness. That’s cruelty dressed in theological language.
3. “Because God can do whatever He wants.”
Which avoids the question rather than answering it.
Yes, God can do anything consistent with His nature, but the Calvinistic scheme makes God violate His own revealed character of justice, love, righteousness, and impartiality.
Scripture says He is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34).
Calvinism says He respects persons so much that He eternally selects some over others without any revealed reason.
1. “Because God just wanted to.”
Then salvation is ultimately arbitrary.
Grace becomes randomness.
And God becomes indistinguishable from a cosmic lottery machine.
Atheists accuse God of being arbitrary, but that’s actually Calvinism, not the Bible.
2. “Because it glorifies God more that way.”
Then God needs damnation to look good.
Which means God creates most people for the sole purpose of eternally damning them to hell fire and brimstone so He can put His “glory” on display.
That’s not holiness. That’s cruelty dressed in theological language.
3. “Because God can do whatever He wants.”
Which avoids the question rather than answering it.
Yes, God can do anything consistent with His nature, but the Calvinistic scheme makes God violate His own revealed character of justice, love, righteousness, and impartiality.
Scripture says He is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34).
Calvinism says He respects persons so much that He eternally selects some over others without any revealed reason.
Well this gets you added to the God blasphemer list for claiming that God does things for no good reason when Scripture plainly identifies that He does things for His own good pleasure. But we already know you don't believe what the Bible says.
Maybe you should actually read the Bible.