Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Hui1]

Nice to meet a fellow Gardener sir, the story was me, and my words.

It's a very special relationship to God,

It shows him you care,

I believe God did indeed create us to be stewards of his land, to as well as other reasons,

Thanks i always do have a nice day to, even when it seems im not. Because I'm a special tree too.

My tree has a network that's connected to the true vine, and it doesn't take long for me to filter out the poison trying to turn my seed into poison,

And then there the seed that's want to set fire to my poor little beaches that get watered, by the seed that's gets delighted when I water his seeds, I know that to be true, cuz quite often I get a gentle gust of wind when my prayers are answered.

I know this may be long winded to some, but I love the wind, as God can control it

Praise God!! Because everything God has created is beautiful.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

@Jordon: Good night my dear brother; And all the very best with your friend who's suffering from cancer. Please take good care.

 

[Hui1]

@Jordon: Good night my dear brother; And all the very best with your friend who's suffering from cancer. Please take good care.

God bless your friend.Get well again.

 

[Jordon]

Praise God!! Because everything God has created is beautiful.

Very true, but i last in the queue when he gave out patience lol, I had to wait a long time jk

@Jordon: Good night my dear brother; And all the very best with your friend who's suffering from cancer. Please take good care.

thanks bro all good my friend has been given the all clear, truly amazing,

 

[Jordon]

Yes, brother: I was trying to refute you where you said that most Christians today are not Calvinists: How are you so sure of that?

ok bro over in the UK I don't know of anyone who is called a calvinist and there are no churches called Calvinist churches.

In the USA I haven't found a church called a calvinist church or a denomination, and so far in this forum I have not met one person thinking of themselves as a Calvinist or confessing that they are a Calvinist.

Next

In the UK i have heard lots of doctrines of grace that are in line with what people identify as evil Calvinism here, which is tulip.

Why well

Total depravity

God saved a wretch like me .

Unconditional election
All are called few are chosen only the chosen will be elected for the adoption

Limited atonement

Jesus comes to those who will receive him

Irresistible grace

When Gods enabling grace has worked in a persons heart his grace is irresistible to whom his grace saves

Perseverance of the saints
those who are truly his will never be lost


See theres only just the true word of God here.

But people identify this as evil calvinism

 

[cv5]

Look carefully at how Paul opens Romans 9, and you’ll see that the subject is not individual predestination to heaven or hell. Romans 9:1–5 makes the context unmistakably national: Paul is heartbroken for Israel, his “kinsmen according to the flesh.” Romans 9–11 deals with the corporate destiny of Israel, not Calvinistic individual election.

Paul’s Repeated National References

9:3 — “my kinsmen according to the flesh”

9:4 — “the Israelites”

9:27 — “Though the number of the children of Israel…”

10:1 — “my heart’s desire…for Israel”

10:19 — “Israel”

10:21 — “to Israel he saith…”

11:1 — “I too am an Israelite”

11:2 — “his people which he foreknew”

11:7 — “Israel hath not obtained”

11:25 — “blindness in part happened to Israel”

Every example Paul uses is corporate.

Isaac vs. Ishmael – These represent descendants and nations, not individuals predestined to heaven or hell (Gen. 21–22).

Jacob vs. Esau – “Two NATIONS are in your womb” (Gen. 25:23). The passage is about national destiny and the Messianic lineage, not God eternally choosing one baby for heaven and the other for hell.

Pharaoh – A national representative. God “raised him up” to power (Rom. 9:17), not created him for damnation. Pharaoh represents Egypt, and striking Pharaoh meant striking Egypt (Ex. 3:19–20; 7–14; Ps. 105:26–28). “The king of Egypt will not let you go…so I will strike Egypt.” Notice the corporate pattern: king is representative of the nation. The people followed him, supported him, benefited from slavery, and shared in that national rebellion. Scripture itself says the Egyptians collectively oppressed Israel (not just Pharaoh): “the Egyptians mistreated us, afflicted us, and laid hard bondage on us.”(Deut. 26:6). Even after multiple plagues, the people still supported Pharaoh’s refusal to release Israel. There was no national repentance. They shared his pride, his defiance, and his oppression. Egypt enslaved God’s people, murdered Hebrew children (Ex. 1), refused God’s command through Moses (Ex. 5), exalted their gods above Yahweh (Ex. 12, 18). These were national sins, not just Pharaoh’s personal ones. Even after multiple plagues, the people still supported Pharaoh’s refusal to release Israel. When Israel did leave, the Egyptians even pursued them to force them back into slavery (Ex. 14).

Isaiah’s remnant prophecy – Paul quotes Isaiah to show that God’s judgment and mercy concern Israel as a nation, not individual predestination (Rom. 9:27–29; Isa. 10:22–23; 1:9). Isaiah says “Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved.” Paul applies this corporately: the nation as a whole would face judgment, yet a remnant would survive. This is national preservation, not individual reprobation.

Hosea (“not My people / My people”) – Entire peoples and groups—Israel and the Gentiles—are in view (Hos. 1:10; 2:23; Rom. 9:24–26). Again, corporate categories, not individuals decreed to eternal destinations.

Paul shows that God’s choice of nations (Israel/Gentiles) in salvation history explains why believing Gentiles are included and unbelieving Jews excluded—while still fulfilling the promise to Abraham. That is the primary meaning of Romans 9–11.

Individual application exists, as Paul applies the same potter/clay principle individually in 2 Timothy 2:20–21:
but not the way Calvinism teaches.

Here’s an analogy:

Suppose a master potter owns a workshop.

He already has blueprints of what kinds of vessels he will honor and what kinds he will reject before he ever touches the clay. He had already concluded beforehand:

“If the clay stays soft and workable, I will make it a vessel for honor. If the clay hardens and refuses to be shaped, it will become a vessel of dishonor.” Those are his preordained criteria, not preordained individuals.

Now, consider two types of clay:

1. Clay #1 remains soft. It responds to the potter's touch. It yields. It can be molded. The potter says: "Even so, this vessel has become the very thing I resolved beforehand for all obedient clay—a vessel for honor."

2. Clay #2 sets. It resists. It refuses shaping. It becomes rigid. The potter says: "This vessel becomes exactly what I planned beforehand for all rebellious clay - a vessel for dishonor."

Notice: The potter had predetermined the result, not each piece of clay's identity or response. It is the response of the clay that determines its destiny.

That is Jeremiah 18 precisely that Paul is quoting in Romans 9.

Gentiles believed = vessels of mercy (Rom. 9:30)

Israel rejected faith = vessels of wrath (Rom. 9:31–33; 10:21; 11:7)

Gentiles = Clay that responded. Gentiles believed, and were formed into vessels of mercy (Rom. 9:24–26).

Israel = Clay that hardened. National Israel hardened itself. Cf. Rom. 9:31–33; 10:21; 11:7.

God shapes a nation based on its repentance or rebellion. Nothing in Jeremiah 18 or Romans 9 teaches unconditional predestination.

When we get to chapter 10, the mistake many Calvinists make is assuming the individual salvation language in Romans 10:9-13 means Paul changed subjects. Not so. He still speaks about corporate Israel:

“My heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that THEY might be saved.” (10:1)

The application is individual (Rom. 10:9–13), but the subject remains national Israel.

Anyone in Israel—and anyone anywhere—can obey the gospel and be saved. Nothing about predestined individuals.

In conclusion: Paul's whole argument in Romans 9 is corporate. There's not one example in Romans 9 of God choosing an individual for personal salvation the way Calvinism teaches. Romans 9:1–5 is explicitly about Israel as a nation rejecting Christ. Romans 9:6–13 uses Jacob/Esau as nations, not isolated individual destinies. Romans 9:24–26 applies Hosea's prophecy about restoring Israel and calling the Gentiles. Romans 9:27-29 quotes Isaiah about the remnant of Israel and the destruction of a nation. Romans 10–11 continues discussing Israel and the Gentiles, not individual predestinations. Everything having to do with the main, primary meaning is corporate. Any individual application is secondary and flows from the corporate principle.

A superb effort. Rarely do we enjoy a thesis as thoroughly developed as what you have presented.
So good I had to bookmark it.....

 

[homwardbound]

selfishness still lives in the free will of the flesh even when your saved.

When a person is abundant in understanding this only then can they shine a light

God bless you friend

Bye bye

May your path be narrow

Thank you, you as well as we each continue, Col 1:21-23

 

[Jordon]

Thank you, you as well as we each continue, Col 1:21-23

well whilst Jesus was fully God in the flesh im not.

And whilst the battle is not against flesh and blood that is a figurative speech for us to treat each other fairly.

And we are told to die to self daily which means we should not hold are own flesh above anyone else.

Now whilst you could be less selfish than anothers in the flesh , that takes shear discipline to perfect in the flesh.

So whilst the love in your heart mat not be selfish you can sure bet your flesh can be.

So you tell me is that religion or is that the truth

 

[cv5]

Calvinism is morally bankrupt because it means God creates the majority of mankind to be tortured for all eternity as their one and only fate or destiny. That is evil.

God's countless calls for repentance/returning/obedience are intentionally fraudulent according to the Calvinist dogma.

 

[Magenta]

God's countless calls for repentance/returning/obedience are intentionally fraudulent according to the Calvinist dogma.

God holds the unbeliever accountable. They are without excuse.

 

[cv5]

Yes. The giants in Genesis 6, the Nephilim, were the offspring of the second group of angels that rebelled against God. These angels were not the same as the first group who fell with Lucifer in Isaiah 14. Rather, they rebelled in a different way. Scripture says that the sons of God saw the daughters of men and took them as wives, producing giants in the earth (Genesis 6:1 through 4). Jude shows that these angels “kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation” and are now “reserved in everlasting chains under darkness” (Jude 1:6). Peter adds that God “cast them down to hell,” translated from the Greek verb tartaróō, referring to the place known as Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4). This identifies them as a unique second group of rebels punished immediately, unlike the demons who still roam freely.

Although the Flood destroyed the original Nephilim, Scripture plainly states that giants appeared again after the Flood. Genesis 6:4 says, “There were giants in the earth in those days and also after that.” After the Flood we find the Rephaim, Anakim, Emim, Zamzummim, and other giant clans dwelling in the land of Canaan. The spies sent by Moses encountered the sons of Anak and reported, “we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight” (Numbers 13:33). The Anakim were known for their extraordinary height and strength.

Goliath was a direct descendant of these post-Flood giant tribes. He was “of Gath,” one of the Philistine cities where the Anakim survived (Joshua 11:22). Scripture records another giant from Gath with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot (2 Samuel 21:20 and 1 Chronicles 20:6), which reflects the same corrupted hybrid traits found earlier. Goliath had four giant brothers as well (2 Samuel 21:15 through 22), showing that a surviving giant bloodline continued into David’s day.

We also see the extreme size of these post-Flood giants from Og king of Bashan. He belonged to the same broad group of giant peoples linked with the Rephaim and Anakim. The Bible records the exact size of his bed: “nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it” (Deuteronomy 3:11). Using the standard cubit of eighteen inches, his bed measured about thirteen and a half feet long and six feet wide. Even if this provided more space than the man’s actual height, it still suggests Og himself stood around ten to twelve feet tall. Since the Anakim are grouped with these same giant clans (Deuteronomy 2:10 through 11 and Joshua 11:21 through 22), Og’s stature gives us a vivid sense of the kind of giants Israel faced.

The Bible contains many incredible and supernatural events, including a talking serpent (Genesis 3:1 through 5), a talking donkey (Numbers 22:28 through 30), and an axe head that floated on water (2 Kings 6:5 through 7). In the same way, the accounts of the Nephilim, the giant tribes, and their angelic origins fit naturally within the supernatural reality Scripture reveals.

Somebody tell the Calvinists (as I already have countless times), that Jesus intentionall set His crucifixion upon Golgotha, the exact place where Goliaths skull was buried by King David. Thereby CONFIRMING that Goliaths was a literal "seed of the serpent", an inhuman Nephilim hybrid, fulfilling the prophecy of Gen 3:15.

Goliath's name is actually Gol of Gath. Golgotha, place of the skull.......Gol of Gath's skull.

 

[Jordon]

Somebody tell the Calvinists (as I already have countless times), that Jesus intentionall set His crucifixion upon Golgotha, the exact place where Goliaths skull was buried by King David. Thereby CONFIRMING that Goliaths was a literal "seed of the serpent", an inhuman Nephilim hybrid, fulfilling the prophecy of Gen 3:15.

Goliath's name is actually Gol of Gath. Golgotha, place of the skull.......Gol of Gath's skull.

Your power is the power of grace skull

Because by the power of grace skull you saved yourself

 

[cv5]

God holds the unbeliever accountable. They are without excuse.

You might want to reflect upon that as regards these "beliefs" that you preach incessantly.

And yea, Jesus has validated and confirmed beyond all refutation, once and for all, that Goliath was in fact a demonic seed of the serpent hybrid. Thereby confirming the Genesis 6 episode.

And no, this annihilationism belief of yours is not a Biblical thing either. Among perhaps dozens of other errors and omissions.

 

[BillyBob]

While this may not have been your intention, the image of this necklace on this woman is designed with occult-style symbolism. The central blue turquoise stone represents the spiritual core, often associated in occult systems with inner vision, intuition, and psychic receptivity, since blue symbolizes spiritual insight and the element of water. Placed at the center of the chest, it functions as a “heart-of-power,” similar to a displaced third eye or a magical center that signifies hidden wisdom or mystical authority. The seven surrounding stones reflect the common occult use of the number seven, tied to chakras, celestial powers, and esoteric “completion.” The gold branching filigree beneath the main stone resembles a stylized Tree-of-Life or sigil pattern, symbolizing the flow of spiritual energy, while the overall downward-pointing triangle shape reinforces feminine mystical themes and receptivity. The purple backdrop and floral elements further reinforce a New Age or enchanted-priestess aesthetic. Together, the shapes, colors, and arrangement imitate a magical talisman that embodies intuition, spiritual power, and mystical energy according to occult design language.


Sources:

1. Blue/Turquoise stones meaning intuition, spiritual insight, and communication
Rock Paradise: “Blue Crystals and Gemstones – Names, Meanings, and Healing Properties.”
https://rockparadise.com/blogs/news...mstones-names-meanings-and-healing-properties

2. Blue stones associated with wisdom, insight, and mental clarity
Emmanuelle Guyon: “Symbolism of Stone Colors – Blue Stones.”
https://www.en.emmanuelleguyon.com/vertus1_en.php

3. Turquoise associated with protection and spiritual connection
GemSelect: “Top Ten Most Spiritually Powerful Blue Gemstones.”
https://www.gemselect.com/other-info/powerful-blue-gemstones.php

4. Downward-pointing triangle symbolizing feminine energy, water, and receptivity
Cassie Uhl: “Magical Meanings & Uses for Triangles & Pyramids.”
https://www.cassieuhl.com/blog/magical-meanings-uses-for-triangles-pyramids

5. Downward triangle as a symbol of the divine feminine
Atlas of Soul: “Divine Feminine Symbols.”
https://atlasofsoul.com/blogs/feminine-archetypes/divine-feminine-symbols

6. Number seven associated with chakras, spiritual completion, and esoteric mysticism
Esoteric Meanings: “Mystical Number Seven.”
https://www.esotericmeanings.com/mystical-number-seven

7. Number seven as mystical in occult sciences and ancient esoteric systems
Palash T. Thakur: “The Significance of the Number 7 in History, Chaldean Numerology and Occult Sciences.”
https://palashthhakur.com/the-significance-of-the-number-7-in-history-chaldean-numerology-and-occult-sciences

8. Chakra colors linking blue to communication, expression, and inner clarity
Chakra Anatomy: “Throat Chakra Meaning.”
https://www.chakra-anatomy.com/throat-chakra.html





……

What a bunch of hogwash!
Maybe you should start a new topic about proper necklace design. . .

 

[Jordon]

You might want to reflect upon that as regards these "beliefs" that you preach incessantly.

And yea, Jesus has validated and confirmed beyond all refutation, once and for all, that Goliath was in fact a demonic seed of the serpent hybrid. Thereby confirming the Genesis 6 episode.

And no, this annihilationism belief of yours is not a Biblical thing either. Among perhaps dozens of other errors and omissions.

The true meaning of seed for his children is the seed that bears fruit and for magenta

Which sadly you can't wish to say in your heart whilst you and your free will crew are posting your nonsense to and darkness on to her with your cruelness

 

[BillyBob]

John 3 v 20-21 ~ Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.

Great message, thank you! But @Bible_Highlighter must inspect the image to make sure the scarf does not symbolize occult design.

 

[homwardbound]

well whilst Jesus was fully God in the flesh im not.

And whilst the battle is not against flesh and blood that is a figurative speech for us to treat each other fairly.

And we are told to die to self daily which means we should not hold are own flesh above anyone else.

Now whilst you could be less selfish than anothers in the flesh , that takes shear discipline to perfect in the flesh.

So whilst the love in your heart mat not be selfish you can sure bet your flesh can be.

So you tell me is that religion or is that the truth

that is the difference between the flesh and blood first birth nature after Adam the first. Which needs to be born new. Which only God Father can do fro each person in sincere belief between God and them.
Eph 6 does. a great job explaining this truth, and Gal 6 does as well, and is about you see another in sin and want to help them.
Ask Father first, to hear from Daddy, when to speak and when to not speak. Learn truth Matthew 10:16-20. Learn Luke 21:14-15
Understand even though born new (again, second birth) by God for you. Does not mean one or anyone can stop sin, why????????/
Flesh is not redeemed, no other flesh but Son's could do it perfectly ever, Today that remains, since our first birth flesh natures are not redeemed only our Souls are by God for us all to rest in, and forsake our first birth of thought(s) I know more than you attitudes
See Luke 18:9-14, whom is justified? See Matthew 18:24-35 will you not forgive everyone, being forgiven by God first through Son?
Or will you go back to court under Law and see your crimes and have to pay for them not being thankful and see to not accuse , abuse or excuse self or anyone else?
Romans 2:1-4 too, and trust God to teach you not me or anyone else you see physically, what? Yes Romans 1-4, Phil 1:6 Col 1:21-23 time to respond and not create as man continues to do and interpret the Bible out of context, in order to lead others.
God reveals, I respond, I do not know, only God the Father does as even Son said that in Matthew 19
When read the Bible, take out the verses that are numbered and do not number them. Read the entire Epistle written. One, anyone will then see the real walk of Jesus all in context, not taking verses out to promote a different gospel, in flesh opinions
G-ospel
God's
Only
Son's
PurposeEternal
Life

Life or death, we all get to choose and I tis not by any works of flesh and blood, but Son's alone for us , at least I see this and am at rest in thankfulness to God over everything else here on earth, we all go through here first

 

[Blue155]

A superb effort. Rarely do we enjoy a thesis as thoroughly developed as what you have presented.
So good I had to bookmark it.....

glad it helped!!

 

[BillyBob]

I think Calvin was a big fan of the Keto diet as well.

 

[Magenta]

I am open to being corrected. If the Bible says it, then I accept what it says.

This is simply not true of you. The person without the Spirit of God has no Spiritual understanding of the Spiritual things of God. They are opposed to them. This is explicitly articulated in Scripture but you oppose it and make up your version of temporary enablement. You also claim salvation is open to all but then contradict yourself and say some have no chance since their names were not written in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world. You say it is because God knew they would not believe but Scripture says He saves us not based on anything we have done. You also promote the idea that the gospel is not a spiritual matter counted among the deep things of God. Free willers love to distort Scripture truth like you do. They have to in order to uphold their un-Biblical beliefs and they resist correction just like you do. These truths include God's plan for redemption, righteousness, forgiveness, and the believer's union with Christ. They are considered "deep things" because they were hidden from the world's wisdom and were only revealed to believers through the Spirit of God, not by human effort or worldly knowledge. These things (redemption, righteousness, forgiveness, etc) are all part of the gospel message.