salvation is a process of having a relationship with the father first salvation is sealed upon being born again
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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We have free will, God has free will, the holy Angels have free will, Satan and the fallen angels have free will, and your kids, dog and cat have free will. Obviously.
Free will = true life, the gift of God
The lie of Satan, the aethist and the Calvinist is that.....we have neither.
More tomorrow time for bed....
O
OLDBUTNEW
Guest
That's being silly again salvation can't be offered once there born again.
Salvation is offered from the moment God pricks a person conscience with his active will, starts from when your aware of your conscience being pricked
O
OLDBUTNEW
Guest
I don't know how old you are but if you can remember the first time your conscience ever being pricked as youngster that was the start of salvation being offered
God pricks the conscience with his will to against the will of man that lives in his corrupted soul
O
OLDBUTNEW
Guest
his enabling grace is sufficient enough for anyone to have will to
A respond
B have sorrow
C repent
D walk with him talk with him the father
E hand you over to the son
B
Blue155
Guest
@OLDBUTNEW
Here is the danger of Calvinism. Please read this with an open mind.
The Danger of Calvinism [When applied consistently and logically]
1. If Calvinism is correct and God decreed/ordained/predestined every single event to happen, then that would mean He is directly and personally responsible for every rape, murder, liar, molester, thievery, idolater, drunkard, junkie, sorcerer, atheist, Satanist, terrorist, human genocide, etc etc. He would be responsible for every single evil that has ever walked the face of the planet…you name it…He decreed/ordained it to happen due to Calvinism. And that is utter blasphemy.
2. This doctrine is making God the author of evil/sin/wickedness. It’s a very ungodly doctrine that has people to be lost when they had no choice in the matter due to God purposefully choosing them to be lost. It makes God a respecter of persons, and has Him being very unjust which is completely opposite of a loving and Holy God. On judgment day, as they are being cast into the lake of fire, they should say “NOOOO!!! I DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE!! It’s not MY fault!! YOU didn’t give ME the ABILITY to CHOOSE!!!” Calvinism’s God simply says “Tough…you can’t and couldn’t do a thing about it because those were the cards that were stacked against you and those are the cards that I dealt you.”
3. According to consistent Calvinists, nothing happens outside of God’s will and we can’t do anything outside of His will. Everything that happens is because it has been decreed before the world ever began. So, when a child gets molested is that God’s will? Is the molester doing the will of God by doing that sin that they were decreed to do? If the molester does not do that, then would the molester be going outside of God’s will that the molester was decreed to do? If a good Samaritan stops the molester from doing a sin, then the good Samaritan that stops them would be going against what God has decreed the molester to do, or whoever else that is sinning. Such a sick and blasphemous doctrine.
4. How does anyone know what God has decreed if people are told to stop doing something when God has decreed it? Would a Christian be wrong for telling a sinner who was decreed by God to sin to stop sinning? Would the decree of God have a Christian stop a sinner from sinning interfere or go outside God’s will with His decree to have a sinner commit sin? In other words, their doctrine has God contradicting Himself in what He has decreed. This doctrine makes no sense at all.
5. Did God decree all of this to happen? Did He decree me to type and post this? If He did, then is it wrong what I believe? If it is, then did God decree something wrong since I strongly disagree with Calvinism? If Calvinists disagree, then were they decreed to disagree with what God decreed of me to believe? Everyone would be going against what God decrees according to Calvinism. If some are unconditionally chosen to have eternal life, then why bother preaching the gospel? Why bother giving us the Bible? Why did Jesus have to die if some are already unconditionally saved?
6. If everything is predestined by God, then why bother telling a sinner they are in the wrong since they are doing what God predestined, decreed, and or ordained them to do or believe in the first place?
7. The doctrine of Calvinism makes God into an evil tyrant that is unmerciful and is not the God of the Bible. Why would it matter to Calvinists how anyone acts if God has decreed/ordained them to act like that? Would they now be saying what God has decreed to be wrong with how someone acts? Why would anyone have to justify their behavior if God is the one who decreed it? If God decreed it, then would that not make it justifiable?
8. If we do what God has decreed of us by telling Calvinists they are in biblical error, then we would be doing what God wants us to do since we have been decreed to do that. And at the same time, they would be telling us we are in biblical error, as they would feel they would be doing what God wants them to do since they claim He decreed them to do that, which once again is making God decree things differently, which is making God essentially decree against Himself. Who can believe it?
9. Their own theology (when taking logically and consistently) is everything that we do is simply what God makes us do or forces us to do--including not to believe Calvinism. It’s God’s fault for having some to think the way they do about Calvinism, all while the Calvinists are mad because people who believe differently than them are only doing what God decreed me and others to do. Was God wrong in decreeing people to be this way?
10. We are made in the image of God. How can we be made in the image of God if we are born sinners and how can our soul and spirit come from God if we are born sinners, i.e. child of the devil? What part of us is born totally depraved? What part of man is made in the image of God and what part of man is born in sin? Did God have some to be made in His image, yet have them be as children of the devil at birth??
11. The logical conclusion to their doctrine is nothing more than utter blasphemy.
Scriptural refutation of Calvinism: The Bible tells us to diligently seek Him (Heb. 11:6). If we don’t have the ability to seek God, then why would the author of the book of Hebrews tell us to diligently seek Him? We are told to seek the Lord (Acts 17:27, Old Testament example, Deut. 4:29). Other passages that tells us to seek are Matthew 6:33 (seek the kingdom of God), Matthew 7:7 (seek and ye shall find).
How was the angel of God able to give Cornelius a vision telling him to send for Peter, and the Spirit telling Peter three men (I believe one of them being Cornelius) are said to have seeked after Peter (Acts 10:19), when the Spirit was not poured on Cornelius and his kin until after Peter got there (Acts 10:44)? If it takes a direct operation by the Spirit to seek God, then how did Cornelius do this before the Spirit fell on him and the other Gentiles, and gave them the abilities to speak in tongues?
If we are so depraved and we can’t seek after God, then why are there passages telling us to “come”? (Rev. 22:17, Matthew 11:28). If we don’t have the ability to choose since we are depraved, then why are there passages telling us to choose? (OT: Deut. 30:9 “choose life”, Joshua 24:15 “choose you this day whom ye will serve”)
The Bible says Christ died for all men (1 John 2:2, 2 Cor. 5:15, etc etc). For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16). He wants all to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). The limited atonement view believes He only died for the elect.
“Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.” (Acts 7:51). We can, and we do have free will to resist.
There were some in the church of Galatia who were being warned what would happen if they leave Christ, or if they had already rejected Christ to return to the law of Moses, which caused them to have fallen from grace Gal. 5:3-4). I would say some had rejected Christ because Galatians 1:6 says “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel”, and I believe Paul was also warning the others of what would happen if they had done this. Some might say Gal. 5:3-4 doesn’t apply today since no one returns back to the law of Moses, but for our time the result would be the same to anyone who remove themselves from Christ. The result would be they fall from grace. (Gal. 5:4).
The Hebrews author said “Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Heb. 10:29)
“Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God…” (Heb. 12:15)
Now, does this sound like the God of the Bible to you? Does the God of the Bible have us to be born sinners, damned in sin to the point we can’t believe, choose or seek Him unless God chooses us to be able? Does the God of the Bible unconditionally elect who will be saved and lost with no choice of their own? Did the God of the Bible have Jesus to die for all men or only the elect? Did He not give us free will to reject grace? Does the God of the Bible not warn us about the danger of apostasy?
Why even bother telling others to place faith in God if they don’t have the ability without God giving it to them? I strongly urge anyone who believes in Calvinism to repent!
Here is the danger of Calvinism. Please read this with an open mind.
The Danger of Calvinism [When applied consistently and logically]
1. If Calvinism is correct and God decreed/ordained/predestined every single event to happen, then that would mean He is directly and personally responsible for every rape, murder, liar, molester, thievery, idolater, drunkard, junkie, sorcerer, atheist, Satanist, terrorist, human genocide, etc etc. He would be responsible for every single evil that has ever walked the face of the planet…you name it…He decreed/ordained it to happen due to Calvinism. And that is utter blasphemy.
2. This doctrine is making God the author of evil/sin/wickedness. It’s a very ungodly doctrine that has people to be lost when they had no choice in the matter due to God purposefully choosing them to be lost. It makes God a respecter of persons, and has Him being very unjust which is completely opposite of a loving and Holy God. On judgment day, as they are being cast into the lake of fire, they should say “NOOOO!!! I DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE!! It’s not MY fault!! YOU didn’t give ME the ABILITY to CHOOSE!!!” Calvinism’s God simply says “Tough…you can’t and couldn’t do a thing about it because those were the cards that were stacked against you and those are the cards that I dealt you.”
3. According to consistent Calvinists, nothing happens outside of God’s will and we can’t do anything outside of His will. Everything that happens is because it has been decreed before the world ever began. So, when a child gets molested is that God’s will? Is the molester doing the will of God by doing that sin that they were decreed to do? If the molester does not do that, then would the molester be going outside of God’s will that the molester was decreed to do? If a good Samaritan stops the molester from doing a sin, then the good Samaritan that stops them would be going against what God has decreed the molester to do, or whoever else that is sinning. Such a sick and blasphemous doctrine.
4. How does anyone know what God has decreed if people are told to stop doing something when God has decreed it? Would a Christian be wrong for telling a sinner who was decreed by God to sin to stop sinning? Would the decree of God have a Christian stop a sinner from sinning interfere or go outside God’s will with His decree to have a sinner commit sin? In other words, their doctrine has God contradicting Himself in what He has decreed. This doctrine makes no sense at all.
5. Did God decree all of this to happen? Did He decree me to type and post this? If He did, then is it wrong what I believe? If it is, then did God decree something wrong since I strongly disagree with Calvinism? If Calvinists disagree, then were they decreed to disagree with what God decreed of me to believe? Everyone would be going against what God decrees according to Calvinism. If some are unconditionally chosen to have eternal life, then why bother preaching the gospel? Why bother giving us the Bible? Why did Jesus have to die if some are already unconditionally saved?
6. If everything is predestined by God, then why bother telling a sinner they are in the wrong since they are doing what God predestined, decreed, and or ordained them to do or believe in the first place?
7. The doctrine of Calvinism makes God into an evil tyrant that is unmerciful and is not the God of the Bible. Why would it matter to Calvinists how anyone acts if God has decreed/ordained them to act like that? Would they now be saying what God has decreed to be wrong with how someone acts? Why would anyone have to justify their behavior if God is the one who decreed it? If God decreed it, then would that not make it justifiable?
8. If we do what God has decreed of us by telling Calvinists they are in biblical error, then we would be doing what God wants us to do since we have been decreed to do that. And at the same time, they would be telling us we are in biblical error, as they would feel they would be doing what God wants them to do since they claim He decreed them to do that, which once again is making God decree things differently, which is making God essentially decree against Himself. Who can believe it?
9. Their own theology (when taking logically and consistently) is everything that we do is simply what God makes us do or forces us to do--including not to believe Calvinism. It’s God’s fault for having some to think the way they do about Calvinism, all while the Calvinists are mad because people who believe differently than them are only doing what God decreed me and others to do. Was God wrong in decreeing people to be this way?
10. We are made in the image of God. How can we be made in the image of God if we are born sinners and how can our soul and spirit come from God if we are born sinners, i.e. child of the devil? What part of us is born totally depraved? What part of man is made in the image of God and what part of man is born in sin? Did God have some to be made in His image, yet have them be as children of the devil at birth??
11. The logical conclusion to their doctrine is nothing more than utter blasphemy.
Scriptural refutation of Calvinism: The Bible tells us to diligently seek Him (Heb. 11:6). If we don’t have the ability to seek God, then why would the author of the book of Hebrews tell us to diligently seek Him? We are told to seek the Lord (Acts 17:27, Old Testament example, Deut. 4:29). Other passages that tells us to seek are Matthew 6:33 (seek the kingdom of God), Matthew 7:7 (seek and ye shall find).
How was the angel of God able to give Cornelius a vision telling him to send for Peter, and the Spirit telling Peter three men (I believe one of them being Cornelius) are said to have seeked after Peter (Acts 10:19), when the Spirit was not poured on Cornelius and his kin until after Peter got there (Acts 10:44)? If it takes a direct operation by the Spirit to seek God, then how did Cornelius do this before the Spirit fell on him and the other Gentiles, and gave them the abilities to speak in tongues?
If we are so depraved and we can’t seek after God, then why are there passages telling us to “come”? (Rev. 22:17, Matthew 11:28). If we don’t have the ability to choose since we are depraved, then why are there passages telling us to choose? (OT: Deut. 30:9 “choose life”, Joshua 24:15 “choose you this day whom ye will serve”)
The Bible says Christ died for all men (1 John 2:2, 2 Cor. 5:15, etc etc). For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16). He wants all to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). The limited atonement view believes He only died for the elect.
“Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.” (Acts 7:51). We can, and we do have free will to resist.
There were some in the church of Galatia who were being warned what would happen if they leave Christ, or if they had already rejected Christ to return to the law of Moses, which caused them to have fallen from grace Gal. 5:3-4). I would say some had rejected Christ because Galatians 1:6 says “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel”, and I believe Paul was also warning the others of what would happen if they had done this. Some might say Gal. 5:3-4 doesn’t apply today since no one returns back to the law of Moses, but for our time the result would be the same to anyone who remove themselves from Christ. The result would be they fall from grace. (Gal. 5:4).
The Hebrews author said “Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Heb. 10:29)
“Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God…” (Heb. 12:15)
Now, does this sound like the God of the Bible to you? Does the God of the Bible have us to be born sinners, damned in sin to the point we can’t believe, choose or seek Him unless God chooses us to be able? Does the God of the Bible unconditionally elect who will be saved and lost with no choice of their own? Did the God of the Bible have Jesus to die for all men or only the elect? Did He not give us free will to reject grace? Does the God of the Bible not warn us about the danger of apostasy?
Why even bother telling others to place faith in God if they don’t have the ability without God giving it to them? I strongly urge anyone who believes in Calvinism to repent!
he pricks everyone's conscience from an early age
As his word says no one is without excuse and every careless word is judged from the moment your aware of your conscience being pricked as a youngster
B
Blue155
Guest
O