Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Solitude]

 

[Jordon]

You don't think he needs to have breathing space do you m

 

[Solitude]

You don't think he needs to have breathing space do you m

Everbody does.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Yep you can , but can only because the flesh likes to do what it wants.

It just amazes me tho how people can believe more in free will than they do God .

@Jordon : Spot on! You tell 'em, Bro!

 

[Jordon]

@Jordon : Spot on! You tell 'em, Bro!

Just making people think really bro,

The last two pages are clear proof that people think what they like

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Just making people think really bro,

The last two pages are clear proof that people think what they like

That's so true, Bro!

 

[Blue155]

never asked you that m, I asked you to ask him a question, I would not think he was all powerful if he could not answer you...

Cool. So I’m convinced God has the power and supreme authority to give man free will. I’m also convinced God giving man free will doesn’t make Him less sovereign, as God cannot change, so giving man free will does not change His nature. And I’m also convinced that free will doesn’t involve man being able to have the authority over God. I’m convinced God and man’s free will are compatible, and am convinced God is that good, that He can get His will done through the free will of man. He’s that good. He’s that powerful. He doesn’t have to make us not have free will, as if giving us free will somehow makes Him not in charge. He’s in charge even when man has free will. He’s that good. He’s that powerful. He’s that amazing. And He’s that awesome.

 

[Magenta]

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[Genez]

So, God is not powerful enough, wise enough, sovereign enough, etc etc to give man free will, because it would then be stronger than Him and His sovereignty, supreme authority?

So, He has given us free will to be able to allow to do what our flesh wants, but not given us free will to be able to do what He wants?

In order to create man in His image?
God gave man (since God created man in his image) an area for man's own sovereignty, like God.

That delegated sovereignty was so complete in man?
That God can not even force someone not to reject Him if that person so wishes.

 

[Jordon]

Cool. So I’m convinced God has the power and supreme authority to give man free will. I’m also convinced God giving man free will doesn’t make Him less sovereign, as God cannot change, so giving man free will does not change His nature. And I’m also convinced that free will doesn’t involve man being able to have the authority over God. I’m convinced God and man’s free will are compatible, and am convinced God is that good, that He can get His will done through the free will of man. He’s that good. He’s that powerful. He doesn’t have to make us not have free will, as if giving us free will somehow makes Him not in charge. He’s in charge even when man has free will. He’s that good. He’s that powerful. He’s that amazing. And He’s that awesome.

sounds like you might be saved m

 

[Kroogz]

Does anyone perceive the slightest hint of coercion, arm-twisting, pre-programming or other nefarious intrusions into free will or volition regarding the fact of Zacchaeus RECEIVING of the Lord Jesus JOYFULLY in these passages? And the fact that his volitional initiative was that which was crucial to the proclamation by Christ Himself of his salvation?

@Jackson129 @HeIsHere @Kroogz @Genez.......anybody?
How about @Magenta @Rufus @Cameron143? Will they postulate that, due to mysterious gnostic principles known only to them, there is embedded in this poignant missive some kind of doomer gate-slamming contrariety or unattainability barrier whereby no-one can possibly be saved if they desire it (Him)?

The way I see things, we have a "Seeker" Who is the initiator, offering the gift, and a free will "responder"......who in his heart was ALSO seeking, and then receiving the gift.


[Luk 19:1 KJV]
And [Jesus] entered and passed through Jericho.

[Luk 19:2 KJV]
And, behold, [there was] a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

[Luk 19:3 KJV]
And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.

[Luk 19:4 KJV]
And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that [way].

[Luk 19:5 KJV]
And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

[Luk 19:6 KJV]
And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

[Luk 19:7 KJV]
And when they saw [it], they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

[Luk 19:8 KJV]
And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore [him] fourfold.

[Luk 19:9 KJV]
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

[Luk 19:10 KJV]
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

The calvies focus on the problem and NEVER focus on the solution.

Mankind fell, we are LOST.

So He FIXED our problem. He sent us His word. Signs and wonders. Raised a nation/people to witness to the world. Sent us His only Son. Sent us His Spirit.

He SEEKS that which is lost.

Imagine telling your 7 kids......John 3:16 is only for a few elect. Odds are that a couple of you God hating, totally depraved rascals aren't on His "good" list.

 

[Magenta]

sounds like you might be saved m

Sounds like a lot of logical fallacies, word salad, and rejection of what the Bible explicitly articulates to me.

But, to each their own.

 

[Jordon]

The calvies focus on the problem and NEVER focus on the solution.

Mankind fell, we are LOST.

So He FIXED our problem. He sent us His word. Signs and wonders. Raised a nation/people to witness to the world. Sent us His only Son. Sent us His Spirit.

He SEEKS that which is lost.

Imagine telling your 7 kids......John 3:16 is only for a few elect. Odds are that a couple of you God hating, totally depraved rascals aren't on His "good" list.

ah your only human after all m

Do you have anyone else on your list for not finding a solution.

Cuz man can not live by bread alone m.

You have to think about this m,

When it says man does that include the calvies

 

[Jordon]

Sounds like a lot of logical fallacies, word salad, and rejection of what the Bible explicitly articulates to me.

But, to each their own.

to be fair to him he did say when man has free will, he is still in charge.

Made me think about whom the lord sets free will be free indeed.

On a level playing field I have to look at reasining is he saying when man is saved the will of man still remains in the flesh.

Did he ask God

 

[Kroogz]

Cool. So I’m convinced God has the power and supreme authority to give man free will. I’m also convinced God giving man free will doesn’t make Him less sovereign, as God cannot change, so giving man free will does not change His nature. And I’m also convinced that free will doesn’t involve man being able to have the authority over God. I’m convinced God and man’s free will are compatible, and am convinced God is that good, that He can get His will done through the free will of man. He’s that good. He’s that powerful. He doesn’t have to make us not have free will, as if giving us free will somehow makes Him not in charge. He’s in charge even when man has free will. He’s that good. He’s that powerful. He’s that amazing. And He’s that awesome.

It is so simple.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL. And everyone who has ever lived has equal privilege and equal opportunity at His salvation.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31

Imagine....This is evil in the calvies theory.........Just let that sink in. REALLY......Let that sink in.

 

[Kroogz]

ah your only human after all m

Do you have anyone else on your list for not finding a solution.

Cuz man can not live by bread alone m.

You have to think about this m,

When it says man does that include the calvies

John 3:16
Acts 16:31

 

[Jordon]

John 3:16
Acts 16:31

that's nice m.

Do these two verses include calvies too.

 

[Kroogz]

that's nice m.

Do these two verses include calvies too.

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.John 3:16


31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”Acts 16:31

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

Just putting my 1 cent worth into this debate:

This could be a possible Calvinist versus Free Will person, dialogue:

"You stupid Free-Willy-ER!"; "Yeah: and you're a stupid Calvie!"

So, the question is: do you prefer to be a Free Willie, or a Calvie?!



And on a final note, I just want to say: "Hey, man: I really dig these cool abbreviations!! I feel really "with it", when I say Free Willie, and Calvie!!!!!" !!!


Carry on!!!

 

[Blue155]

It is so simple.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL. And everyone who has ever lived has equal privilege and equal opportunity at His salvation.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31

Imagine....This is evil in the calvies theory.........Just let that sink in. REALLY......Let that sink in.

I’ll never understand why (and it is nothing against them, but the system of Calvinism) why anyone would want to believe in the god of Calvinism, and quite frankly I don’t want to. I’ll stick to wanting to understand the God of the Bible. I guess Calvinism would say I was predestined not to understand?